I have a hole that i cut out due to rust under the battery tray. and at first it seemed easy, cut the bad out weld new in. but I'm realizing the complex shape of the area and I'm not sure how to shape my metal. any tips?

Ryan,
I just had to repair something similar. A fiero friend had some pretty serious damage to the striker area of the passenger side door jamb. It was basically in a fender bender and that area was damaged a bit. Then some idiot who should not own a welder tried to put a plate over top of the existing damage without apparently treating it. SO the plate trapped moisture and it rusted out behind it pretty badly. Also the damged area went thru the edge of the side of the car and turned into the jamb area around the striker. The striker was barely hanging on there and you could see the tell tale sea urchin of a mess that the guy made when trying to mig weld the area and having the wire go into the hole and then make contact leaving little spines behind the metal. This whole area was severely rusted out and the plate he welded on gave absolutely NO structural support. What I wound up doing was making the repair in steps. First I cut out the entire offending area with a cutoff wheel on my die grinder trying to make the hole so the patch pieces would be rectangular and easy to template. Next I had to make some kinda guide for the corner of the jamb where it meets the side of the body sheetmetal. What I wound up doing was to take a piece of round steel rod and carefully bend it to match the drivers side contour. Then I cut it so it was just a little longer than the opening I cut out. I welded it inside the body at the top and bottom of the opening so it would support the new sheetmetal and give me a guideline as to where to template to. Then I took some construction paper and started to make a template of the door jamb area in a sorta funky rectangle and bent it around my gas tank on my welder to match the contour and tig welded it to the round rod I had just installed. Once I got it tacked in I then went ahead and knocked the paint off the body around the hole and also knocked the mill scale off the templated piece and commenced to welding it to the body all the way around. Unlike a Mig welder where you must tack here and there over and over until you get a solid piece I was able to actually weld for maybe an inch or two and then move to another area and do it to keep heat soaking to a minimum on the sheetmetal. Once I got the curved section of the inside of the door jamb completed I had to cut out more damage and cracked sheet metal from the area behind the side scoop. I was able to remove the damage and then template another piece for this area. The only problem is that rusty part extended a ways beyond the plate that guy welded in and I wire wheeled it all off leaving the already thin sheetmetal even thinner. I had to be more careful with the Tig welder here to avoid burning thru but I was able to get it put back together and cut the old striker pin and nut out of the mess of mig wire underneath it and machine it to be usable again. Then I cut the hole for the striker and installed it in the car checking to see if the door would close right and adjusting it accordingly. Finally I put a final patch piece in and closed up the side of the car completely. It took many hours to accomplish this task and it came out pretty nice considering how bad it was and most importantly the door now closes solid altho the hinge pins and bushings are smoked so they need replaced.

Now Looking at your cutout I am thinking you may need to do something similar. Basically I would cut out the sheetmetal more at the top and make it as square as possible. Probably removing that tack welded piece because that will make your life more difficult. Then I would start by templating the largest part of the opening and try to get a piece made that will fit into that lower opening that matches the shape. It takes some time to get it cut and bent to fit that but it is not that hard really. I would cut the radiused part clean and try to make it a smooth arc of a cut so it will be easier to template. Then I would grind the paint and crap off all the edges around the hole with a surface prep disk in a die grinder on both sides and start tack welding in the first piece. Once I get it installed I would then try to make a thin arc template to make it meet the radiused area so that you can make the thing whole again. The fact that the radiused part is rusted out and the material is not there to join with the more flat areas of the hole makes this more difficult so that is why I suggest doing the flat area first and then trying to join the radiused area to it. This should be easier than trying to make that complex contour unless you have a very well equipped sheet metal shop with stretchers and whatnot. SInce you are asking about this I will assume you don't. I think it really looks worse than it is. I would also try to tie in the new sheetmetal into the frame rail area as much as possible for strength and if that means removing some of the sheetmetal beyond the frame rail to do that so be it. Just don't cut into the frame rail accidentally. If that radiused part is really thin and rotted out you can also use the steel round rod trick to build up a corner by bending it in there and tacking it all the way across the bend if it gives you something more to weld to. It does not look that bad from the pictures. I would start tho by grinding and wire wheeling off all the paint and crap around it better so you can see what you really have there and pay close attention to the thickness of the existing sheet metal. It can make your life much more difficult welding it back together if it is super thin. Good luck and if there are any questions you may have I would be happy to answer them if I can. Peace


Pete

I pretty much have cut everything that had rust on it in that area. so that standing metal is not thin. I just painted it to keep it from rusting farther. depends on how long it will be before I repair it. that nudge that comes down in the pic, there's a metal tank that bolts there, so I didn't want to lose that piece just yet. I only have a mig welder. so i would have to tack here and there. my drill recently broke so i won't be drillig the entire tacked on sheetmetal off the car. and wow, sounds like you had a crazy job to do. I know mine is pretty simple. but since I haven't done this before, I want to make sure its done right.

Ryan,
Not sure what you mean by " drilling the entire sheetmetal" Why would you have to drill the sheetmetal? If that piece that is spot welded on there is going to have to be reinstalled. I would scribe a line in the metal around it with a carbide scribe and then drill out or grind out the spot welds and then make the repair to the hole. Then when you got it all grinded down nice and smooth after your patch you can just plug weld it back in place where it was before. Good luck man...peace

Pete

I mean drill out. like you said. well looks like I'm going to need another drill. drill out the spotwelds that hold that metal in. then work with it outside the car. then reattach it back in the car and spotweld it back, however there is that hard paint like seal around the edges of where pieces of metal meet, what is that, how to remove it, and where do I get more, so when I'm finished I can put it back on.

Not sure really what that piece is but it is probably seam filler that is around the edges, You might be able to take a wire wheel to the edges at an angle and knock it out enough to be able to scribe and remove it. If you do not have a drill maybe you can borrow one or just use an angle grinder and buy a high speed wire wheel for it. Personally I would cut the existing above that piece and make the hole nice and square shaped to be easier to template. Then you can just attach it to the new metal. Too bad you are not here in Maryville I would try to help you with it. It is not too bad but for a beginner it may be a beotch... When you go to tack it back in when I tack sheetmetal with my mig welder I turn the power down and crank up the wire speed so it is less likely to burn thru on you. If you can get some strong magnets or a welders magnet that will help to hold it in place so you can get some tacks on it. Then you can just go to town on it to seal it in. Take your time, take some breaks between tack welding it in to keep heat at a minimum, and make sure you knock off all the paint and crap around it on both sides before you do it. Good luck and peace

Pete

a wire wheel won't do it, it is as hard as jbweld. I would much rather do it with the piece in the car. cut the hole out square like you say, then make a 90 degree piece of metal for the bottom and side, the bend metal over the round part, and cut til they meet up. thanks for your help Pete.

I don't want to create a new topic but I also need help find this foam, its soft and hold the rear body off the frame rail.

and this one to. for both sides, total of four. if I had a part number for the fiero store, or another vendor. it would make my life more easier.

Try using a couple different pieces of sheet metal... perhaps triangle shaped ones, easier to shape, then weld them in and together. Also if you relocate your battery so it is no longer there, it may be easier. The battery could go in the trunk, or under the spare tire (there are kits for this).

I was planning on putting the battery in the trunk for the time being then move it up front later. either way its not going back in the same place. I will be getting a large battery box, and a large size battery. I don't really know how big I can go. or of I can get like a yellow top optimal battery or something.

I've repaired that area on one of mine. I don't think I had quite as much of the wheel well area rotted out but there was some.

I used a couple of pieces of metal.
In this pic you can see that I shaped one piece to about the curve of the wheel well:

[

Then I just bent a other part at a right angle and mated it all up



From the other side, you can see the curved piece :



The main thing is to get the curve of the wheel well area. You don't have to get too fancy with curves where it joins the sheet metal on the side and bottom. If you want to make it look 'nice' after the fact, put some bondo on there once it's all done to shape it.
You might have to make the curved piece up out of a couple of pieces of metal in your case but it should be doable. I'm no panel beater by any stretch of the imagination, just takes a bit of patience and a lot of test fitting and experimentation to get the shape right. The main thing to remember is that the wheel well liner goes up against that curved area so you have to get it 'about' right. If it protrudes too much into the wheel bay then the liner will not sit right under there.

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Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 05-04-2012).]

I have a scrap 85 that is already cut in half waiting to haul off to the dump. No rust. I could cut that area out bigger than you need and ship it to you for a few bucks.

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11 Camaro SS/RS
86 Fiero GT
03 Silverado 3500 Duramax! (Stacked, Tuned, Mean as Hell)
07 Suburban LT2
09 Avalanche LT3

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: i'm sure i could fly a plane no problem.

carter check your pm. i realize how much a pita it will be to do it, but i am interested. it would be so much easier on me.

PM replied.

carver, to be specific I need from the wheel well where it is cut in the first picture. to the very end towards front of car, where it overlaps the other metal. up to halfway over where the original battery tray sit, to the bottom, if you can cut after it bends over going down into the frame rail maybe half an inch. I wished i had a photoeditor on my phone

I'll just work on cutting as big of a piece as possible.

lol I don't know why I have to be complicated like that. but it will work.

carver, any updates on the metal?

quote Originally posted by Ryanstalin: I was planning on putting the battery in the trunk for the time being then move it up front later. either way its not going back in the same place. I will be getting a large battery box, and a large size battery. I don't really know how big I can go. or of I can get like a yellow top optimal battery or something.

That is a good idea anyway. I went to a boat supply place and got a battery box. I ran my leads back to the trunk. I then made up a false floor and got some matching carpet from the wrecker to cover the false floor. It works great. There is room for the 995A battery and a tool box, all hidden under the false floor.

Well worth doing.

Arn