Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum but a long time Fiero fanatic and watcher of all the great things that have gone on here.

I am a former owner of a 88 Formula(my first car) but the economy and financial decisions caused me to lose her, but now I'm back in the game and looking for a 88 GT to make my own again. I have my garage and tools and can do most all of my own work needed here.

Anyway back to the point...I have a love of SAABs too especially the SPG and Viggen cars. I've seen where people have used turbos off the old 900s and a video of a Fiero with the old SAAB 2.0 installed on youtube but what I want to know is:

Can I swap a B235R 9-3 4cyl turbo engine/trans from a 1999-2002 Viggen into a Fiero?

The engines are great units and offer a lot of tuning potential plus the transmission is the F23 5-speed so that part should be fairly direct. Does anyone have any insight as far as the wiring or mounting difficulty? Any help you guys can offer is greatly appreciated and I look forward to being part of the addiction again.

It would require a lot of custom work. Stick to the usual Fiero engine swaps, I tried to put a RB26DETT into my Fiero and it wouldn't work unless i mounted it transversely so I just did a 3800 swap instead.

quote Originally posted by saxyjoo: Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum but a long time Fiero fanatic and watcher of all the great things that have gone on here. I am a former owner of a 88 Formula(my first car) but the economy and financial decisions caused me to lose her, but now I'm back in the game and looking for a 88 GT to make my own again. I have my garage and tools and can do most all of my own work needed here. Anyway back to the point...I have a love of SAABs too especially the SPG and Viggen cars. I've seen where people have used turbos off the old 900s and a video of a Fiero with the old SAAB 2.0 installed on youtube but what I want to know is: Can I swap a B235R 9-3 4cyl turbo engine/trans from a 1999-2002 Viggen into a Fiero? The engines are great units and offer a lot of tuning potential plus the transmission is the F23 5-speed so that part should be fairly direct. Does anyone have any insight as far as the wiring or mounting difficulty? Any help you guys can offer is greatly appreciated and I look forward to being part of the addiction again.

quote Originally posted by JSzpotek: It would require a lot of custom work. Stick to the usual Fiero engine swaps,

**** man with that kind of mindset we'd never progress.

I know it hasn't been done but I'm pretty sure it's possible. The wiring doesn't bother me since I have completely rewired my BMW 325ic before and done some ecu work on others. The big hurdles would be the mounts and exhaust.

My biggest worry would be the turbo and it's downpipe hitting the bulkhead, just don't have measurements yet...

I know nothing about the B235R, but the tranny mounts for the F23 to Fiero cradle are already available, unless I'm mistaken.
Check out mattwa's 3800/F23 thread, and L67's F23 thread. There are some other F23 / Fiero bits available too.

Sounds like an interesting swap to me. I would think the hardest part would be the wiring. If you are creative enough you can get around just about everything else. Good luck, hope to see you make some progress with the swap.

Ben

Thanks for some insight guys, I agree that wiring would be the major problem but maybe I could use the cluster from the 9-3 and eliminate a few problems there....plus I'd have a cool boost gauge also, the same engine can be found in the 9-5 Aero of the same year so if I luck out i could buy a complete wecked car to scavenge from.

I've looked at a 88 gt the other day, it's auto and pretty rough but it would be a good start and at least I could save it from the crusher.

It is completely impossible to stick a foreign engine in a Fiero and make it run off the factory pcm from the donor car.....and put 35,000 miles on the swap with zero issues...

Oh wait.....nevermind. As you all were. Don't mind me.

Dave

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www.hausofguru.com

I have heard of it i once asked as there is 2.8 saab which is general motors these days and is fwd and should be possible and i am sure it has been done i just don't know where or when i read or saw it.

I know there have been a couple of SAAB turbo swaps in Sweden. Check over at fieroforum.se. Forum member PFalk put a 2.0T from a '99 9-5 in his Fiero, shouldn't be all that different from what you're looking at

quote Originally posted by PerKr: I know there have been a couple of SAAB turbo swaps in Sweden. Check over at fieroforum.se. Forum member PFalk put a 2.0T from a '99 9-5 in his Fiero, shouldn't be all that different from what you're looking at

Thanks for the link, that may be the one I saw online in the video...I'll post it if I can find it again(it was definately from sweden.)

quote Originally posted by saxyjoo: LOL, I'm pretty sure I can do it. The PCM would have to be flashed and a chip put in I think to eliminate things like ABS, traction control, and the torque limiter these have programmed in. Shouldn't be impossible since there are plenty of SAAB guys online doing wonders with these.

A lot of that stuff in the older cars from late 90s-early 00s is actually in external modules to the ECM. ABS and traction control are probably all in the ABS unit itself, for example.

quote Originally posted by saxyjoo: LOL, I'm pretty sure I can do it. The PCM would have to be flashed and a chip put in I think to eliminate things like ABS, traction control, and the torque limiter these have programmed in. Shouldn't be impossible since there are plenty of SAAB guys online doing wonders with these.

I was just being sarcastic....lol.

I am putting a 2.8t Saab in my Fiero and I have a Volkswagen VR6 in my wife's Fiero

Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I was just being sarcastic....lol. I am putting a 2.8t Saab in my Fiero and I have a Volkswagen VR6 in my wife's Fiero Dave

bmwguru i know you were just kidding, I got quite a good chuckle out of your post. I would love to see any progress with the 2.8t, do you have a thread?

That's great, I'd love to use that engine but I think the older 2.3 turbo will be more feasible for me tackle.

I have been documenting the build so far, but no build thread will be done until the car is complete. As of right now, we are in the process of stripping the entire chassis down and POR15 every nook and cranny. Suspension and brakes are next, then the body transfer. Finally the engine swap

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I was just being sarcastic....lol. I am putting a 2.8t Saab in my Fiero and I have a Volkswagen VR6 in my wife's Fiero Dave

Is this the small verision of the current 3.6 in the CTS and Camaro?

I have a B235R in my basement and must admit the thought did cross my mind as it would be similar to an ecotec turbo swap.

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Indy Northstar-Stretch

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Is this the small verision of the current 3.6 in the CTS and Camaro?

A few differences but the 2.8t (LP9) is the same High Feature V6 platform as the LLT and LFX 3.6, yes. There are many different HFV6 engines out there.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: It is completely impossible to stick a foreign engine in a Fiero and make it run off the factory pcm from the donor car.....and put 35,000 miles on the swap with zero issues... Oh wait.....nevermind. As you all were. Don't mind me. Dave

Thanks for posting that! I'm hoping people think more outside the box.

Put any engine in there you like. If you manage to successfully pull it off maybe it'll become one of new "usual swaps".

does anyone have a pic of this engine ? is it all aluminum , how many cams etc ? sounds interesting , i just dont know anything about it .thanks

ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS

2.3L High Output Turbo

Type
4-cylinder

Displacement
2.3 liter (2,290 cc, 140 cu.in.)

Horsepower @ rpm
230 @ 5,500

Max. torque (lb.-ft.) @ rpm
258 @ 2,500 - 4,500

Compression ratio
9.3:1

Aspiration
Water-cooled turbocharger with APC charge pressure control, intercooler (Mitsubishi TD04 HL turbocharger)

Fuel injection
Saab Trionic-7 (T-7)

Bore x Stroke
3.5 in. (90 mm) x 3.5 in. (90 mm)

Arrangement
Transverse mounted

Valve train
Double overhead chain-driven camshafts, 4 valves per cylinder and dual counter-rotating balance shafts

Cylinder block
Cast iron

Cylinder head
Light alloy, cross-flow type with Nimonic alloy heat-resistant exhaust valves

Cooling System
Water-cooled, thermostatically controlled electric radiator fan

Fuel Recommendation
Unleaded 92-93 AON




ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Ignition
Saab Trionic-7 (T-7) with Direct Ignition

Alternator
1755W, 130A

Battery (maintenance-free)
12V, 60 Ah




DRIVETRAIN

Type
Front-wheel drive

Manual transmission
Fully synchronized 5-speed with hydraulically actuated clutch (F23)

Transmission ratios:

First
3.38:1

Second
1.76:1

Third
1.18:1

Fourth
0.89:1

Fifth
0.66:1

Final Drive
4.05:1

Here is what I have on the engine and transmission specifications guys. This is for the 2000+ engines, the 1999 engine is rated at 5hp less due to some tweaking they did for the 2000+ cars in electronics I beleive but the engine itself is the same between both 9-3 Viggen and 9-5 Aero. I beleive the viggen came with a better clutch but that I cannot confirm that.

oh, just occured to me, was this engine affected by the oil sludge issue? don't remember a lot about it, but I think they (Saab) had a number of turbo failures for a short period for some strange reason. Might be worth looking into?

quote Originally posted by PerKr: oh, just occured to me, was this engine affected by the oil sludge issue? don't remember a lot about it, but I think they (Saab) had a number of turbo failures for a short period for some strange reason. Might be worth looking into?

I can't say for sure but I beleive the issue affected the 2.0 that came in the standard turbo cars not this one. The turbo and the oil recommendation(synthetic only) was changed for the B235R as opposed to the standard SE engines. I can't find any info that says for sure either way but I hope these aren't prone to those problems.

I know the PCV upgrade is crucial and I've heard of timing wear but that is pretty uncommon.