I got alot of small things done today. Did some wiring so the trunk popper works again, got the e-brake switch reconnected so you know when the E-brake is on, fixed the temp gauge so it doesn't peg out on me now, I get a temp indicator bulb test now instead, like it should. Cut off the excess threads on the exhaust clamps, and started the install of the digital cruise control system, I got the physical part done more or less, now I just need to get a wiring connector for it and modify the clutch pedal a bit so the switch works again (the pedal is too low to reach the switch anymore).
Can't be driven right now, because I disconnected and plugged the brake booster line for now, since it's leaking and caused it to run poorly. The brakes are scary bad without a booster.
Here is another video I took today. Sorry for the poor quality, there wasn't enough light around at the time in the garage. But I think it gets the point across. I'll try to take a better one later. Oh, and ignore my stupid comment about the check engine light...haha.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-22-2012).]
Within the past few days I removed the leaking S-10 booster and today I got another booster Fiero booster from pull-a-part and installed it. No vacuum leak now thankfully. Now I want to drive it some more!
Drove Skye around a bit more today. What an awesome drive, the 3800/F23 is awesome. Really quick. 1st is very short, 2nd is short as well but well matched with 1st, and then when you hit 3rd, you really start gaining speed. Still have that idle issue when cold and a miss kinda when warm idling. Didn't know why, until just now when I found another vacuum leak, the loose adapter I made for the L26 intake that goes into the throttle body. Gotta fix this. Also fixed the worn brake and clutch pedal switches, the brake one with a zip tie, and the clutch one I glued on a metal extension since it was too short now that the pedal is lower.
Today I hopefully fixed the vacuum leak, I removed the Throttle body from the intake and put better sealant on the threads, and tightened it up good. Seemed to help for sure. I also installed a rear sway bar. It's a fiero front sway bar on the rear, just like my dad's 86GT has.
Went for another test drive. Good GOD this car is fast. It is literally insane. Here is the big difference, this car has crazy acceleration because of the gearing, my 4.9/4t60e has speed.
And don't laugh at me, I know it's only an N/A, but it's more then fast enough for someone my age.
bbbut, the 4.9 has all that omg torque and as we all know, "torque wins races".
Seriously though, can you go in depth more on the different swaps and how they compare? (like, cruising, accelerating, mpg, sound, does one feel heavier than the other, etc)
They are so different, It's kinda difficult to compare, but I'll try.
The 4.9/4T60e has a 2.73 final drive ratio, very much economy gearing. It's too low for my tastes. This doesn't mean it's slow by any means, you floor it in 1st gear and you are thrown in the back of your seat from torque. Here is the difference, 1st gear lasts about 3-4 seconds, shifts @5000 RPM, and ends at about 45MPH. 2nd gear hits, and the "thrown back in seat feeling" is kinda gone. But you are gaining speed numbers fast, and that's where I stop (damn cops around here). This car is LOUD, because I made a very minimal exhaust. Doing what I just described would fill the whole area with sound, and most likely could be heard blocks away. Just normal crusing/driving, there is alot of noise for not that much accleration, but that speed really sneaks up on you. That's the nice part of this gearing, highway trips are silent because I'm only going 1500RPM@70MPH. And I'm almost idling down the city streets because I can go 45MPH@1000RPM in 4th gear. City MPG sucks, I get about 15-17MPG, highway is 30MPG because of the gearing. This Fiero does feel "heavy", and even though the 4.9 weighs less then the 3800, there is about an 100lb difference between the F23 and the 4T60e. My 4.9 gets alot of attention at car shows and just in general at gas stations etc because of the sound and "OMG, you got a V8 in a Fiero?! The 3800 wouldn't get attention like that, I'm sure of it. However, there isn't NEARLY as much space to work with in the engine bay compared to the 3800 N/A. There is just so much space with that 3800 in there, even more so without a supercharger, it's so nice to have. The 4.9 has torque and speed, If the rest of the Fiero could take it, my 4.9 would be the top speed winner, it just may take a bit longer to get there. But honestly, that isn't really useful to me, when would I go 140+MPH? Or even try too for that matter. Still, It's very fun to drive from the rumble behind me and the look on peoples faces. WTF is that?! As I pass by, blipping the throttle. It has alot of suspension upgrades too compared to the other Fiero, but even still, it feels "heavier". Advantage here is no clutch problems. LOL.
Now the 3800/F23, I obviously haven't had nearly as much experience with it yet because I just recently got it driveable, so I don't have any MPG figures. I'm hoping it's better then the 4.9 in the city. Hoping highway will be good too, even though the 3.94 final drive ratio makes cruising speed about 2600RPM@70MPH. I do know this 3800 has a good working EGR, so I'm sure that will help with highway MPG. The 4.9's EGR is dead and throws a code at me for it. It's gotten to the point where I want to get rid of the EGR on the 4.9, very frustrating. As for the sound, It's not nearly as loud at all compared to the 4.9, because it actually has a muffler. It doesn't sound as "raw", but the sound it makes is so nice it very much competes with the 4.9. It does not sound like complete ass like most say, but I haven't gotten into high RPM's yet (over 4.5K). As for driving, 1st is very short, 2nd is still short but well matched to 1st (unlike the Isuzu..ick), 3rd is when you start getting the speed. Of course I didn't wind it out, but at the middle range of 3rd is when I got to 45MPH, which is where 1st gear would have ended in my 4.9. Even though I went though 3 gears to get the same speed, it FELT so much faster then the 4.9 did. It felt lighter too, much more agile. It's literally like muscle car vs. a real sports car.
The 3800/F23 Fiero feels like a raw, fast, light sports car, while the 4.9/4T60e Fiero feels like a heavy, loud, torquey muscle car. Now there are other factors in this as well, like the 4.9 has big heavy 16" wheels with 235 tires, while the 3800 Fiero has 195/70/14's. The 4.9 has an 88 cradle as well, while the 3800 has the pre-88 cradle. The 4.9 Fiero is over 2800lbs, not sure about the 3800 Fiero yet. I am curious to know what would happen if I raced them side by side.
I now know the different between the complete opposites in gearing in a Fiero, and the difference between torque and horsepower. Torque is fun, Horsepower is scary (but even more fun).
I lost most of this the first time around from hitting the back button...grrrr. I put it in a text document and kept saving it the 2nd time.
I think I got everything. Anything else?
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-29-2012).]
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10:57 PM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3520 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
Went for another test drive. Good GOD this car is fast. It is literally insane. Here is the big difference, this car has crazy acceleration because of the gearing, my 4.9/4t60e has speed.
And don't laugh at me, I know it's only an N/A, but it's more then fast enough for someone my age.
You don't know crazy fast until SC top swap with mods or Turbo. Wicked insane guirella roid rage
Another day of driving around with Skye. Ran out of gas, so we had to use the rest of the gas from the lawn mowers to get us to the gas station. Afterwords Alex, who was with me, shot a few videos. Sadly the quality isn't that great, but I'll post them.
Edit: OK, here are the videos.
If you didn't understand the best part (middle of Video), this is what was said= Alex: Alright lets take it to Ludacris speed. Me: Eh, not around a school. (it was an elementary school). Alex: Oh, that's the best place to do it. Me: Oh, man! VROOOOMMM Classic.
Here is another video getting some clutch slip by mistake, then just cruising back to Alex's house.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-01-2012).]
That gets me motivated to finish up my car. I guess i'll see what I can come up with for shift cables/brackets using the sock 282 cables. I had an extra long one but sold it a couple of years ago
That gets me motivated to finish up my car. I guess i'll see what I can come up with for shift cables/brackets using the sock 282 cables. I had an extra long one but sold it a couple of years ago
You might want to PM BassClefJeff. He showed me pics of his F23 install this past weekend and was able to keep the cables coming in from the top/front like the 4 speed setup. He was using the Thelin shifter kit, but the picture might help out visualizing the possibilities.
He also has pictures of the new mounting method Thelin came up for using the later transmissions.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-01-2012).]
Thanks, it definitely has made it worth all the time, money, and effort so far.
Now, where is that Turbo...
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru: You might want to PM BassClefJeff. He showed me pics of his F23 install this past weekend and was able to keep the cables coming in from the top/front like the 4 speed setup. He was using the Thelin shifter kit, but the picture might help out visualizing the possibilities.
He also has pictures of the new mounting method Thelin came up for using the later transmissions.
What do you mean later transmissions?
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-01-2012).]
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03:01 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12134 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Thanks! It does somewhat sound like a Fiero 2.8, but not really when you are riding in it in person. I really do like the sound it makes, even without a supercharger (or turbo).
I got the Tachometer fixed today, along with the gas gauge. I also set up an appointment Friday morning for an alignment.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-02-2012).]
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06:12 PM
May 3rd, 2012
cam-a-lot Member
Posts: 2133 From: Barrie- Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
What did you do to get the speedometer to work in the fiero? Are you just using DF's circuit that he uses for the autos?
Yep, it's the same setup as for the autos. I had DF program my ECM for the correct PPM, and I bought that circuit from phonedawgz. Work accurately enough.
Very eventful last two days. Skye got an alignment, which required a new upper ball joint and lower strut bolts. The highway trip back was great, the smoothest riding Fiero I have ever ridden in. I was running about 2300RPM@60MPH. My dad washed him for the first time in...6 months. Lol. Installed Goldie's old auto-dimming rear view mirror with compass. Re-installed annetna and setup radio, Skye has a pretty good system. Also took several pictures. This Fiero is such a fun car to drive, while still being very smooth. But when you get into heavy traffic it kinda sucks.
However, as always there are some minor issues. Mainly the 3800 warms up REALLY quick, without a thermostat. I think there is two factors at work here, one is the fact that we most likely have a 183K Duke raditor, which is thinner then the V6 one. Could be clogged. We are thinking of replacing it with a brand-new 2-core Champion look-alike on eBay. The second factor is the fact that this Fiero was a bumper-pad converted into an areo Fiero. The air dam at the bottom and the two pieces of "rubber" on the sides that channel air into the raditor are all missing. I think this is the main factor to the issue, as it cools right down when the fan kicks on. And reverse is still a PITA to get into.
On a sidenote, there has always been a bad sounding noise after the car warmed up since I got my 3800/F23 swap driveable. At first I thought it was a rod knock, or something to do with the engine (being super paranoid about everything as I am). Then, tonight, it hit me. It's my F23 input shaft rattling, as it goes away when I press the clutch in, and sounds like a rattle for sure. I also have a gear noise each time I engage into 5th at low speed. I'm running two quarts of synthetic Mobil 1 ATF. I should try overfilling it. According to what L67 told me earlier, the rattle happens with high mileage. I have no idea how many miles are on this F23, but there is a chance it is alot.
I am very proud of this Fiero, so much so I don't like anyone else driving it..haha. I built it out of alot of Fiero parts I had laying around from other projects that no longer exist, or parts that came from Goldie after an upgrade of something.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-05-2012).]
Originally posted by mattwa:The air dam at the bottom and the two pieces of "rubber" on the sides that channel air into the raditor are all missing. I think this is the main factor to the issue, as it cools right down when the fan kicks on.
This. With those bits missing the airflow is well on the cack, and cooling will be severely affected. Get those bits reinstated and you'll likely the issue is alleviated.
This. With those bits missing the airflow is well on the cack, and cooling will be severely affected. Get those bits reinstated and you'll likely the issue is alleviated.
Yea, that's what I have been reading while searching the forum recently. Going to make replacements (or buy if we can't).
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12:50 PM
Hulki U. My-BFF Member
Posts: 5949 From: Back home in East Berlin, PA Registered: Apr 2008
My mom very much enjoys driving Skye. Still learning how to handle it, as it is a bit un-usual compared to most cars.
I did do a oil change today, new oil and filter, because the filter was most likely full of the assembly lube by then, better safe then sorry. I also am in the process of making a custom homemade air-dam and splash guards for the radiator. Just need to install them/modify them some more. I also put another quart of ATF in the F23 today, seemed to stop the rattling.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-07-2012).]
That rubber air dam makes a world of difference with the cooling. I saw a 15* drop in temperture when I added it to my first swapped car back in the day. Forsure would not hurt to upgrade the radiator as 183k is a ticking time bomb....
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07:28 AM
Carcenomy Member
Posts: 1109 From: Invercargill, New Zealand Registered: Jan 2009
Skye is still doing ok, I have been busy with other things lately, but I install the two "splash shields" today, custom made ones. Better then nothing anyway.
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09:14 PM
May 10th, 2012
Carcenomy Member
Posts: 1109 From: Invercargill, New Zealand Registered: Jan 2009
Weird. The engine bay in my '84 with the LN3 was actually quite tame - about as warm as the engine bay of my current '87. Could just be the difference between the '84 with its solid panels and vented decklid and the later models with the vented panels and solid decklid... more room for air to get out on the older design.
Weird. The engine bay in my '84 with the LN3 was actually quite tame - about as warm as the engine bay of my current '87. Could just be the difference between the '84 with its solid panels and vented decklid and the later models with the vented panels and solid decklid... more room for air to get out on the older design.
Yea but then rain and crap gets directly on the engine. And that was an LN3, not a Series 2. Series 2's and 3's run hot. I remember Theo opening the hood of a Series 3 Grand Prix when I went to buy this L36 after a drive, and it was HOT in there!!!
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10:13 AM
May 11th, 2012
Carcenomy Member
Posts: 1109 From: Invercargill, New Zealand Registered: Jan 2009
I can't imagine that the changes between Pre or Series I and Series II would be dramatic enough to change the engine's heat signature that much though?
I can't imagine that the changes between Pre or Series I and Series II would be dramatic enough to change the engine's heat signature that much though?
Now that I think about it, most likely not. I think you were correct about the 84 decklid versus 85+ decklid design effecting trapped heat in the engine bay.
Series 2's and 3's run hot. I remember Theo opening the hood of a Series 3 Grand Prix when I went to buy this L36 after a drive, and it was HOT in there!!!
