I have an 88 gt shell also a northstar engine/transmission on a cadillac cradle along with the complete wiring harness from the entire car. For a while now i have been contemplating on making a front wheel drive fiero and putting a hatch back on the car that archie sells so that i can install a back seat. I don't know the measurements of everything yet so this may sound crazy. Any and all ideas and thoughts are appreciated. also before i end this post id like to mention that i love fieros but hate the fact they are only 2 seaters at times. If this could be accomplished then in the future a chop top and wide body would be in the works basically kinda like the arch rival but front wheel drive and with a back seat.

quote Originally posted by JHarvey: I have an 88 gt shell also a northstar engine/transmission on a cadillac cradle along with the complete wiring harness from the entire car. For a while now i have been contemplating on making a front wheel drive fiero and putting a hatch back on the car that archie sells so that i can install a back seat. I don't know the measurements of everything yet so this may sound crazy. Any and all ideas and thoughts are appreciated. also before i end this post id like to mention that i love fieros but hate the fact they are only 2 seaters at times. If this could be accomplished then in the future a chop top and wide body would be in the works basically kinda like the arch rival but front wheel drive and with a back seat.

That would make the front end much longer and higer hood line. If you look close at the front wheel drive you will notice that the drivetrain sits infront of the wheels.
You could get funky and do a drive train from another manufacurer that would bring the engine back some.

First thing you have to do is sell the 88 and use a less desirable year to hack up.

This is right up there with the guy who wanted to convert his to FWD and convert the rear end into a pickup bed.

Just buy a damn Firebird or Camaro.

Darn didn't think about that. I have hardly even looked at the setup. Any other engine swaps that would work without raising the hood line and not having to stretch? keep in mind that i want something with power. Was considering a quad 4 setup from a cavalier but thats simply not enough power for me although the gas mileage would be awesome.

quote Originally posted by JHarvey: Darn didn't think about that. I have hardly even looked at the setup. Any other engine swaps that would work without raising the hood line and not having to stretch? keep in mind that i want something with power. Was considering a quad 4 setup from a cavalier but thats simply not enough power for me although the gas mileage would be awesome.

How much money do you have to spend on this project? Are you very experienced at fabrication?

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: How much money do you have to spend on this project? Are you very experienced at fabrication?

Money isn't a problem. I'm just very creative and want something that isn't pre made. As far as fabrication I own a muffler shop if that tells you anything haha. I guess that may not tell you anything but yes im very experienced and as said before i haven't looked at any measurements. When i got this engine combo it was out of a rear end wrecked cadillac that i was scrapping.

First off, I have seen front engine converted Fieros with a standard tranny in them. The center hump is cut out and a custom rounded hump is made to fit around the tranny and accomodate the shifter. They are rear wheel drive with a standard axle in the rear and a driveshaft down the middle. It can be done but it is a HELL of a lot of money and modifying to the car. You can then cut out the rear firewall and add the seats to the rear. Again, the cost will not justify the benefits but it IS a very neat mod if you can pull it off. As far as FWD, I wouldn't try it. It is another custom pain in the ass.

I would just get a newer Caviler and put the engine in that. Bam, done.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: First off, I have seen front engine converted Fieros with a standard tranny in them. The center hump is cut out and a custom rounded hump is made to fit around the tranny and accomodate the shifter. They are rear wheel drive with a standard axle in the rear and a driveshaft down the middle. It can be done but it is a HELL of a lot of money and modifying to the car. You can then cut out the rear firewall and add the seats to the rear. Again, the cost will not justify the benefits but it IS a very neat mod if you can pull it off. As far as FWD, I wouldn't try it. It is another custom pain in the ass.

Good point! I'd much rather have a real wheel drive fiero to begin with. I just need to find info on motor combinations, trannys ect. I have two 88's, the shell and another with a 4.5 that i bought off a boy in west tennessee.

put in a subaru wrx drivetrain and make it 4 wheel drive .not hard to get around 400 hp out of and you could fit in the rear seat too .

Here is what I am talking about....although this is a drag style car:

quote Originally posted by wftb: put in a subaru wrx drivetrain and make it 4 wheel drive .not hard to get around 400 hp out of and you could fit in the rear seat too .

That was my thought. With the boxster style engine you should be able to get it to sit under the hood. There is a mod to cover up the rear wheel output shaft on the tranny (that or a tranny produced without it) so you could make it a dedicated FWD. You might even be able to keep the fuel tank in the stock location The the back seats would be difficult....

Honestly, I don't understand why someone would want to do this unless, like the above pic, it's for drag racing. Get something else that's already FWD with a back seat...

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 02-10-2012).]

quote Originally posted by JHarvey: I don't like the length or styling of either of those.

ya but when you do a front engine conversion with a back seat YOU HAVE A ****ING FIREBIRD!!!!! i mean seriously......whats with people wanting to do front engine conversions on these????? i swaer i just wanna stab myself when i see these threads.... rant over. on the other hand the one hybred conversion i did see with the electric engine in front was cool as hell.

Not to point fingers at anyone in particular, just in general. I just see so many posts where people jump in and run down other people's ideas and such. I see it a lot in many threads in the forum, not just this one.

Why put a 3800SC in a Fiero? Just go buy a Grand Am! Why put a N* engine in it, just go buy a Cadillac. Where one person may not like another persons engine swap, hood scoop, side scoops, deck-lid scoop mod, chop top, dash swap, hatch back......the list goes on and on... What is important, is if YOU like the modifications.

I mean, heck, there are Ferrari Fiero's, Wide Body's. Lambo's, Swamp buggies and so many others. The thought of a Fiero that has a small back seat, is a neat idea if he can pull it off. It will still be a Fiero, and a very unique one at that! Isn't that what a lot of people strive for with their Fiero's a touch of uniqueness?

He simply posted for some ideas, not a thread full of "You shouldn't do that" posts

I say, If you have the money, time, and patience, and know that you are in for a LOT of work, then go for it!

One other thought that comes to mind... If you can find an engine/tranny that the engine is more offset to the rear... you may be able to move the engine back to the trunk area, and get enough room to move the firewall back.... that is if you are not dead set on it being front wheel drive.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 02-10-2012).]

John,
WHile I agree that you should be able to do whatever you want to your own car and support it wholeheartedly..... Somehow the only front engine fieros that are cool to me are out and out Drag cars.... Other than that I cannot imagine why you would take away the most interesting part of a fiero.... Peace

Pete

quote Originally posted by Pete Matos: John, WHile I agree that you should be able to do whatever you want to your own car and support it wholeheartedly..... Somehow the only front engine fieros that are cool to me are out and out Drag cars.... Other than that I cannot imagine why you would take away the most interesting part of a fiero.... Peace Pete

I completely agree that its the most interesting part and if there is a way to get a back seat while keeping it mid engine then id certainly do so. As mentioned before I have two fieros and one being a shell. If i don't do anything with it then id probably just sell it for cheap. On the other hand id like to have a project car without having to hack up my daily driver.

quote Originally posted by Pete Matos: John, WHile I agree that you should be able to do whatever you want to your own car and support it wholeheartedly..... Somehow the only front engine fieros that are cool to me are out and out Drag cars.... Other than that I cannot imagine why you would take away the most interesting part of a fiero.... Peace Pete

my thoughts exactly. but an engine swap is hot rodding and noy destroying the entire integrity of the fiero.
another project to do to an mr2

What stumps me is why on earth you'd want to make it FWD. Why not move the engine up front, add rear seats and just leave it RWD? I imagine it'd be FAR easier that way.

In any case, I have to agree with the others, get a Firebird or Camaro.

You said you don't like the length or styling...

But the length of the Fiero will need to be lengthened for this anyway, so there goes that, and restyling a Firebird is waaaay less work then what you have planned here.

Just my meager opinion.

[This message has been edited by TheRealShadowX (edited 02-10-2012).]

Or rebody a camaro to look like a fiero, but have the front engine and rear seats. Probably less work.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: First off, I have seen front engine converted Fieros with a standard tranny in them. The center hump is cut out and a custom rounded hump is made to fit around the tranny and accomodate the shifter. They are rear wheel drive with a standard axle in the rear and a driveshaft down the middle. It can be done but it is a HELL of a lot of money and modifying to the car. You can then cut out the rear firewall and add the seats to the rear. Again, the cost will not justify the benefits but it IS a very neat mod if you can pull it off. As far as FWD, I wouldn't try it. It is another custom pain in the ass.

First you I am not so sure can simply cut out the rear firewall as it is a part of the structure of the frame (correct me if I am wrong). Besides would it even be considered road legal if you add a set of rear seats in the engine bay area.

Personally, IF you have to make a 4-seater, just simply do what all the limo manufacturers do and simply cut the car in half and add in the extra required parts (do a search for the GM 4 seater prototype Fiero). In fact there was a 4 seater "work in progress" for sale in the 4 sale section - not sure if someone bought it, or if it was destroyed.

OP - doing what you plan on doing no longer makes the Fiero what it is (mid engine 'sports' car) - as others have pointed out, if you must have this kind of configuration (front engine, 4 seater) - buy a f-body car. Be a lot easier to modify that to how you wish it to look since the bulk of the car already exists with these major changes that you wish to do (front engine and a 4 seater).

The first thing that popped into my mind is that the will end up being similar to an 80s cavalier/sunfire hatchback. I would think it would be far easier and probably safer to start with the cavalier, transplant the motor and then work on tweaks to the body to look more like a fiero.

[This message has been edited by stickboy (edited 02-10-2012).]

"Why put a 3800SC in a Fiero? Just go buy a Grand Am! Why put a N* engine in it, just go buy a Cadillac."

Because those cars have absolutely ZILCH in common with a Fiero. But stretching a Fiero and adding a rear seat gives you pretty much a Camaro. It would be far easier, as someone noted, to alter an F body to the desired appearance.

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: I just see so many posts where people jump in and run down other people's ideas and such. \ He simply posted for some ideas, not a thread full of "You shouldn't do that" posts I say, If you have the money, time, and patience, and know that you are in for a LOT of work, then go for it!

Agreed. But using a tape measure would have answered his own question right off the bat on whether it would fit and/or HOW MUCH work it will need to make it fit.

"Not thinking it through" beyond their "aha, I have an idea" state is why there's lots of half-assed unfinished projects for sale out there.
Some people get in over their heads once they've already hacked up the car (making it scrap)...

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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-10-2012).]

The Fiero is such a sweet car just the way it is and it works well because of the way it is laid out. I can understand the interest in getting some more seats in there but I am afraid while it COULD be done possibly what would be left would really lack what makes a Fiero so fun in the first place. I mean for such a small car it is really quite roomy inside for two people and quite comfortable to me so trying to add another seat even one would probably kill the feel, balance, and style of the car. You want a cool fast sportscar with four seats, buy a nice Mustang GT. I have had a ton of them and they are really quite a nice car with about all the mod possibilities that one could possibly imagine. I kept going back to them for that simple reason, they are a fast, fun, four seater car that is pretty cool just the way it is. The Fiero is also pretty cool just the way it is. Modding them to me should only consist of making them faster, stop better, look nicer, and feel more comfortable and update the electronics maybe and stereo. There are so many fine examples of beautiful Fiero's on here and the possibilities are so vast for cool customization that I cannot see cutting one up for a science project IMHO. That is not to say that there have not been some really wicked radical customs done on a fiero chassis. I can even think of one trike that was built from a Fiero that was downright nasty looking and I mean nasty in the really good way... It is your car at the end of the day and you can do with it as you will. Good luck with whatever you choose to do and post pics!! Peace

Pete

What about this

Take a Buick Reatta as your base platform and port some of the Fiero body panels over to it - or - Graft some aftermarket Fiero body parts to the Reatta
The Reatta almost has enough room back there to make into some small rear seats - It's not as big as a Camero/Firebird and it is a GM cousin
Its already got a 3800 FWD and a long nose so seems it would be easy to make it look more like a Fiero - To me

Just a thought

[This message has been edited by Pappy (edited 02-10-2012).]

This is more than what i asked for guys. I just asked for thoughts and ideas towards the project, yes i understand that its alot of work and time but over all its still something I myself want to do. I don't want to stretch the damn thing or else i would just go get a camaro. This is why i asked for ideas before i went chopping on the damn thing. Now before this turns into a big heated topic id like to get back on topic but still, look at it this way people id rather do this than scrap it or turn it into one of those hideous looking trikes that y'all hate so much.

Ideas so far:
-Subaru... Sorry, don't have $10k to put towards one.
-Engine in the front with drive shaft and rear end, while thats not a bad idea and fairly easy to do it would still take away the mid engine factor however i could deal with that i guess since it wouldn't require stretching.
-Front wheel drive, im just going to count that out for now.

Put an engine in front and go for dual engines.

quote Originally posted by JHarvey: This is more than what i asked for guys. I just asked for thoughts and ideas towards the project, yes i understand that its alot of work and time but over all its still something I myself want to do. I don't want to stretch the damn thing or else i would just go get a camaro. This is why i asked for ideas before i went chopping on the damn thing. Now before this turns into a big heated topic id like to get back on topic but still, look at it this way people id rather do this than scrap it or turn it into one of those hideous looking trikes that y'all hate so much. Ideas so far: -Subaru... Sorry, don't have $10k to put towards one. -Engine in the front with drive shaft and rear end, while thats not a bad idea and fairly easy to do it would still take away the mid engine factor however i could deal with that i guess since it wouldn't require stretching. -Front wheel drive, im just going to count that out for now.

The reason why people are questioning you so much is literally your original argument topped onto what you are talking about makes no sense. Sorry. It doesn't.

You would ABSOLUTELY have to stretch the car to add a back seat. You cannot get around that in any manner. How else would you do it? Putting a hatchback on it? That's not going to give ANY sort of room that would make the rear of the car habitual in a way where people could sit in it. It simply won't. All you would be doing with that is adding a normal hatch to what would now be a "trunk", like with any common Corvette or Firebird or old school Mitsubishi Eclipse. Even if you did manage to do something that makes that area remotely habitual to rear seat occupants, I question the validity of the structure to protect the individuals in a crash - i.e., it would be ridiculously dangerous. Would you really want to put loved ones back there in danger? How you install the floor boards? Weld in metal panel stock? That'll last long... What about the issues around the lower B pillar assembly? You wouldn't be able to leave it like that. What about material now lost to the rear with nothing back there? Way too much to figure out.

Then you say, specifically above "it would take away from the mid-engine factor", that you don't want a RWD setup with the engine up front, but you want the engine up front (but then say you don't want FWD so now I'm REALLY confused). You wouldn't be able to do it any other way but to actually DO a RWD setup. If you mount the engine up front, in a FWD layout, it's going to be very difficult to virtually impossible to work out any sort of safe (or in simple case, driveable) mounting means by which to ensure that everything would hold together. Remember, you would be taking into account a standard style FWD engine setup, meaning the entire front of the car would have to be redesigned and material added to not only structurally support the drivetrain, but also clear the bodywork. The reason why a front-engine RWD setup can work is because in most of these applications the drivetrain is either directly or right behind the front wheels. Most FWD drivetrains are not setup in this manner. You for sure would not be able to use any of the front clip bodywork - nothing would cover the drivetrain, no matter what you used.

Acquiring the Subaru AWD running gear would cost nowhere near $10K. People part out WRXs and such all the time, typically due to "fan boy" stupidity and thus they frequently get written off thanks to wrecks. You could probably get everything for well below $2K if you knew what to look for. If you paid over that you know nothing about "gathering parts."

GM already tried to stretch a Fiero. It was done when the car was new. They did it on both a notchback and a fastback GT and created 2+2 type vehicles. There's pictures floating around and the fastback GT was just sold at Barrett Jackson last year. They're incredibly long. They have to be to ensure occupants can even fit in them.



The factory 2+2 prototype.

More and more, when you look at it, then end result after all of this would be ANYTHING BUT a Fiero, yet you want the Fiero looks? ... ... I'm all for being different, but what's wrong with just building a NORMAL Fiero? You know, putting a drivetrain in it, getting the body and suspension working good, and a good paint job? We are seriously losing way too many to failed and utterly ridiculous projects that shouldn't be attempted.

And you do realize that the Fiero shares more in common than you may think with Camaros and Firebirds right? Just look up the 1990 Fiero prototype


(1990 Fiero prototype on top. 4th Gen Camaro on bottom)

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 02-10-2012).]

To clear up any confusion heres this

I started this topic in mind of having a front wheel drive fiero. having that said, if you read all the replies that i posted you can see that i changed my mind a few times after being informed that the northstar wouldn't work up front at all. Okay now IF i continue this project i would mount an engine up front as well as a transmission which would require re shaping the floor boards ect of course. Then running a drive shaft back to a rear end for the rear wheels. Okay now stretching, If i put in a hatchback and put in actual fender wells I could then place two decent sized back seats. Something along the lines of the back seats out of a cougar which has two small bucket seats. With having the hatch back i'd then have head room for passengers. After thats all figured out then go back and secure the structure completely.

quote Originally posted by Pappy: What about this Take a Buick Reatta as your base platform and port some of the Fiero body panels over to it - or - Graft some aftermarket Fiero body parts to the Reatta The Reatta almost has enough room back there to make into some small rear seats - It's not as big as a Camero/Firebird and it is a GM cousin Its already got a 3800 FWD and a long nose so seems it would be easy to make it look more like a Fiero - To me Just a thought

That's what I was thinking too. I don't think it would require much to make that look like a hatch Back Fiero.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Personally, IF you have to make a 4-seater, just simply do what all the limo manufacturers do and simply cut the car in half and add in the extra required parts (do a search for the GM 4 seater prototype Fiero). In fact there was a 4 seater "work in progress" for sale in the 4 sale section - not sure if someone bought it, or if it was destroyed.

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Currently being upgraded at Whodeanie Customs with many TLG Automotive parts

www.yellowfiero.com Pictures Modifications

Fiero with back seat https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/084609.html

Back on topic of FWD.

Most guys on here are thinking transverse mounted is the only way. However the older Audi A4's would make an awesome powerplant swap for a FWD fiero. Its longtudial, FWD and the transmission would stub into the tunnel.

It would be work no doubt, but ALOT less than making it AWD. Then with the hatch you could utilitze alot of that room for a huge trunk, only negative is that you'd have to use a fuel cell because the OEM tank won't work.

Have fun.

Cheers,
Chase.

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quote Originally posted by Marine1981: That's what I was thinking too. I don't think it would require much to make that look like a hatch Back Fiero.

It would be pure heresy to mess up a fairly uncommon Reatta. Hands off the Reatta......

OK, so you don't want to do a stretch.

You want to have people sitting where the engine used to be and extend the roof to the back.
That requires that entire rear firewall to be cut out and a rear compartment built. I suppose that may be doable even if it's not very feasible.

It will be impossible to get in/out unless you change the front seats to “sliders” (slides forward as backrest is flopped forward).
Even then, there may not be enough movement of the seat and the door opening may not be long enough for rear seat entry.
You could likely end up with a 4-seater where NOBODY wants to sit anywhere other than in the front. Like some ricers today.

I really think the bigger problem is putting a FWD drivetrain in front where there's less space than in the rear engine bay.
You wanted a Northstar no less – probably the largest dimension engine there is (fills the rear engine bay completely).

Scratch that. You now want a front-engined RWD (with fuel cell located in trunk area? - remember Pinto??).

In most cars rear seats are forward of the axle so they can be low to the floor. With the Fiero's low roof,
you'd need the rear seats close to the floor the same as the front - or just have dwarfs riding with you.
The rear seats will be awfully high if they end up being be over the rear axle.

So I guess a rear axle isn't going to work, so you're back to needing a Subaru FWD powertrain.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-11-2012).]

With enough beer anything is logical and possible.

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: It would be pure heresy to mess up a fairly uncommon Reatta. Hands off the Reatta......

I know they are sweet aren't they - A used car dealer has a red one for sale near me I think I'll drop by tomorrow and see what they are asking for it

So you don't want to ruin the styling of the Fiero by stretching it but you think adding a backseat where the engine bay is won't do that? I'm confused....

Personally, I find that the firebird has a lot of similarities with a Fiero from the front. By the time you're done butchering the styling in the rear of the Fiero to accommodate your seats what was the point? Will it really still look better than a Firebird? I get not wanting "yet another firebird or camaro" but wouldn't it make more sense to still start with a firebird and customize that until you are happy with how it looks? You'd still have something unique....

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 02-10-2012).]