How does one go about determining the rarity of a given Fiero? I'm sure some are rarer than others due to options and body color, etc. For instance my car is an 87' 2M4 base coupe with a 5 speed and all the options except for a sunroof and cruise control. It is the 1 year only Bright Blue Metallic and has less than 100K miles. I need to do a minor restoration on it and can't decide whether to fix this one or get another. The parts costs and my labor are the same no matter what Fiero, give or take.
Are there any breakdowns as to how many were a certain color in a given model year? Thanks for any feedback. Michael
Yes, there are a few guides as to the break downs on colors compared to total Fiero production, and there are a handful online. Some numbers are more well known, such as we know how many colors each were placed onto every '88 Fiero Formula. Other models, such as more basic Fieros, often had color numbers lumped together with all the base models (like the "base" and the 2M4s, which for most of the years were two different models, have numbers that are very often lumped together).
If you're trying to determine rariety for the sake of value, I'm afraid you're going to be a bit disappointed. The issue with most Fieros is that each model fits into a niche' category. While "Indy Fiero" pace car replica production is rather rare in the overall scope of Fieros, those cars fall into a particular market set and thus are only worth what people are willing to pay. Another more fitting example in regards to your case is the '87 metallic blue, which has for some owners been difficult to recreate the exact color using modern paint methods. Thus this could turn potential buyers away in regards to comparing a re-paint '87 metallic blue to one that has not been repainted.
Of course there are more varying examples. I guess what I'm trying to get at is as a Fiero owner you have to realize that more and more Fiero numbers are dwindling - near weekly as more are sold, wrecked, disposed of, or salvaged off. Own your Fiero for what you want it to be, not based on what other members and the general consensus consider "rare."
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05:44 PM
SuperchargedV6 Member
Posts: 1966 From: Hinckley, Oh, US Registered: Jan 2006
Here is a sheet I have had for years that helps figure that out. If it doesn't show up well here email me at Rborecky@roadrunner.com and I will give you a larger copy. Rick B
I think you will find that even with less yellow Fiero's built there seem to be less Blue left now. At most national meets I find Blue is the least common at least in original paint.
Even here in Ohio where seeing a Fiero is a common thing I see few original blue ones left. I still see a lot of yellow ones but few blue.
I think the fact many of the yellows were 88 and many people bought them to keep has kept more of them around. The blue ones were low in number but few people ordered them to keep and just used them up.
Like stated before. When using rare with a Fiero or any other collector car the use if for knowing you have one of few as supply and demand rule collector car values. There are a lot of cars out there where they may be less than a handful left but if few people want them there is no value.
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08:23 PM
SuperchargedV6 Member
Posts: 1966 From: Hinckley, Oh, US Registered: Jan 2006
The one you posted does break colors down per year in percentages. It helps to know which color and engines make a car a bit rare. I once found a 1987 SE gold with a 4 banger which is pretty rare. RIck B
if you crunch the number on %'s total number of blue 87 se's with v6 and 4cyl is 46. that is not the true number built that is only on the number of blue cars to total number of cars built then that percentage in the number of se's built.
Heres the rare ones i know off the top of my head.
84 base model with the MY8 trans 84 Indy 84 IMSA 86 zimmer quicksilver 87 with factory blue 87 mera 88 mera 88 in factory yellow enteara viper (not sure of the years of them) t top models.
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 12-21-2011).]
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01:43 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The best resource to look up things by model year and model is the NIFE Enthusiast's guide. You can get it at www.fierofocus.com and click on Store. Scroll down to the 6th item on the list.
As for rarity, While some colors/options are rare, It really does not increase the price that much. The Indy and Mera were low production numbers of a model line and the value increase is significant. But a blue vs. yellow color of a particular model will not really make much difference. Option wise, The option itself adds to the price but rarity of it does not change it. Example a 1988 GT with factory T-Tops vs. 1988 GT where the T-Tops were added later will have minimal if any effect on price. Most of the limited number colors or options only make a difference to a specific collector and the Fiero is not a popular collector car yet.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 12-21-2011).]
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06:33 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Heres the rare ones i know off the top of my head.
84 base model with the MY8 trans 84 Indy 84 IMSA 86 zimmer quicksilver 87 with factory blue 87 mera 88 mera 88 in factory yellow enteara viper (not sure of the years of them) t top models.
84 IMSA was a body kit from DGP. It was never installed at the factory. Same with the Enteara Viper. While the kits themselves are rare, it doesn't make the Fiero they were used on rare.
The Zimmer was built and sold by Zimmer. It makes it a rare Zimmer not a rare Fiero.
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06:36 AM
PFF
System Bot
beachbomb Member
Posts: 1028 From: Screven, GA Registered: May 2000
I truely think the rarest is the "power steering" 1988 versions. Supposively, only a few rolled off the line with this option. If you own one, CONGRATS!!! I still look for it in junk yards, knowing I'll never find one, but fun to look anyway! Jim
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08:14 AM
FieroMichael Member
Posts: 18 From: Ball Ground, Georgia, USA Registered: Dec 2007
Thanks for all the replies. I remember when I could pick up nice Chevrolet Corvair's for a very reasonable price, now the prices are throught the roof. Fiero's will go the same road.
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09:01 AM
qwikgta Member
Posts: 4671 From: Virginia Beach, VA Registered: Jan 2001
I know it's not relevant to this discussion, but remember sometimes "rare" means "not well liked" or "bad idea". Things that are truly "rare" are often made in limited numbers to keep their value higher, made that way on purpose. Other things that are "rare" are also things that someone kept saved away and passed down from family member to family member until so much time has gone by that there is not a lot of them left. Then you have to hope that after all that time, what they saved is still wanted.
Things made in limited numbers like " 71 Hemi Cuda Convertibles" or "Z16" Chevy Malibu SS 396 are rare. Super Duty Trans Ams are rare because only so many of them were made, and after almost 40 years, only a small number of "numbers matching" are left.
Yes, some Fiero's are rare due to their low number of production (Indy, Mera), but some low number cars are just low number because no one wanted them (Yellow) (I like the Yellow cars, but a lot of folks think yellow is a "girl" color). Only 1252 T-Top Fieros were made in 88 because some folks didn't want T-Tops and most didn't know they were available.
Only 299 Formulas were made with T-Tops in 88, and only 339 Coupes had them but the 88 GT's value with T-Tops (614) is still higher. How can someone add more money to a 88 GT with T-Tops than a Formula/Coupe. Twice as many 88 GT's had T-Tops but the price guide still adds more value to them.
Great conversation and I hope a few more folks add their opinion about value and the dreaded "R" word (Rare).
Oreif, thanks for the update and by the way my DGP was at the factory, lol honestly it was for a moral booster and to show what they could do with it. Rick B
By they way now that I think about it, they did install the type 3 at the factory as you can see in Gary Witszenburgs book. I spoke with a few like Bob who owned DGP and John Callies who were there when they worked on it. Rick B
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05:12 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6171 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
I know it's not relevant to this discussion, but remember sometimes "rare" means "not well liked" or "bad idea". Things that are truly "rare" are often made in limited numbers to keep their value higher, made that way on purpose. Other things that are "rare" are also things that someone kept saved away and passed down from family member to family member until so much time has gone by that there is not a lot of them left. Then you have to hope that after all that time, what they saved is still wanted.
Things made in limited numbers like " 71 Hemi Cuda Convertibles" or "Z16" Chevy Malibu SS 396 are rare. Super Duty Trans Ams are rare because only so many of them were made, and after almost 40 years, only a small number of "numbers matching" are left.
Yes, some Fiero's are rare due to their low number of production (Indy, Mera), but some low number cars are just low number because no one wanted them (Yellow) (I like the Yellow cars, but a lot of folks think yellow is a "girl" color). Only 1252 T-Top Fieros were made in 88 because some folks didn't want T-Tops and most didn't know they were available.
Only 299 Formulas were made with T-Tops in 88, and only 339 Coupes had them but the 88 GT's value with T-Tops (614) is still higher. How can someone add more money to a 88 GT with T-Tops than a Formula/Coupe. Twice as many 88 GT's had T-Tops but the price guide still adds more value to them.
Great conversation and I hope a few more folks add their opinion about value and the dreaded "R" word (Rare).
Cheers
Rob
No matter the clammor of how many were made if there is not sufficent demand that is higher than the number of cars available the value is effected. There have been many cars with less than 100 made but they were cars few or no one wanted and this left the value down. On the other hand the 78 Indy Pace car Vette was over built but there are enough people who seek out examples yet to make it of some value. It may not be to a level of a Shelby but it is much better than most 70's small block Vettes.
One other good example is the Turbo 88 GTA pace car Trans Am. There are something like 1500 of them. Demand has been low for some reason and the it has bee a good buy for a low volume collector car. Same for the notch back option on the 88 TA as only a few 100 were built and few people know of them.
So in the big picture Rare or low volume is for brag rights when supply and demand control value. Too often some will confuse low production numbers with value and it is only a part of the equation.
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05:18 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6171 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
I was looking at the chart that RickB posted... Of course at the Indy section... LOL!
They had a t-tops column as an option in the chart on the indy row. Were there any t-top indy's?
There are some T top Pace Cars but they were dealer installed options or were done by Cars and Concepts for the owners. Pontiac ok'd the T Tops as a dealer installed option and let the dealers have them converted without voiding the warranty. The 88 cars were the only offical factory listed option but they too were carted off to the Cars and Concepts plant and converted by the same guys who had done many of the 84-87 cars. That is why all the parts are the same less the gasket. They changed it to one piece vs the 2 parts used in the kits.
So no there are no factory t tops pace cars but that does not mean you can't find one,
The first T Top was a prototype 84 model given to Cars and Concepts. Pontiac said it could not be done but C&C said it could. They shocked the Pontiac people and tried to get them to add it as a factory option when the car originally came out. Pontiac gave them the dealer installed blessing but no factory option status till 88.
There were a lot more T Top cars than many realize but still a small number compared to the number of Fiero's built.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-21-2011).]
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05:24 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6171 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
Thanks for all the replies. I remember when I could pick up nice Chevrolet Corvair's for a very reasonable price, now the prices are throught the roof. Fiero's will go the same road.
I would not call the Vair throught the roof yet as they still lag behind many cars of that era but they are starting to get their due. The Monza Turbo/Corsa and a Yenko Stinger are the highlights in vlaue but many of the 500 models are a steal yet. It was not all that long ago we picked up a 66 convert with only 7000 miles for $900. It needed a windshield, paint, muffler and a little assembly.
27 years is not really that old of a car. It even took many muscle cars 30 years or better to come of any great value. With the cars available in the 80's the Fiero will be a player. The cars in the 70's are just now coming of any value like the TA and Z28. THey have been bargin basment cars and are now just now taking off. Once the 80's cars come to life in 10-15 years the Vette, Fiero, Z28, TA, Mustang and Shelby Chryslers are some of the few cars that will be of interest. Also many of these cars will be diffcult to restore for the lack of parts and the great amount of cheap plastic in the interiors. It is damn near impossible to restore a SVO Mustang now and it will only get worse since so few are left many of the parts will never be repo'd.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-21-2011).]
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05:31 PM
PFF
System Bot
Dec 23rd, 2011
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
By they way now that I think about it, they did install the type 3 at the factory as you can see in Gary Witszenburgs book. I spoke with a few like Bob who owned DGP and John Callies who were there when they worked on it. Rick B
DGP worked with GM at the factory for some of the initial cars, But no IMSA body Fiero's were sold out of the factory to the public. There was no IMSA option from the factory to the public. Being built/designed at the factory between GM and DGP is different than being sold by the factory. There were a few IMSA Fiero's sold by dealerships but these were DGP body kits installed by the dealership not the factory.
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08:45 AM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6171 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
DGP worked with GM at the factory for some of the initial cars, But no IMSA body Fiero's were sold out of the factory to the public. There was no IMSA option from the factory to the public. Being built/designed at the factory between GM and DGP is different than being sold by the factory. There were a few IMSA Fiero's sold by dealerships but these were DGP body kits installed by the dealership not the factory.
Pontiac did a lot of things on the Fiero in house never offered directly from the factory.
Generally things offere were in three forms.
Factroy option with a code and installed at Pontiac or at a out side vendor. Example 1988 T top that was done by an outside vendor but did have a RPO number.
Then there things Pontiac Approved Dealer install options or modifications offered like the Cars and Concept T tops 84-87 and Mera where they were either added as a dealer installed option or a approved modifications that could be sold by Pontiac dealers without hurting the warranty. The dealers would send the cars to C&C and then sell them with the added option with Pontiacs approval. Also The Mera was a body conversion that was approved by Pontiac to be sold via the dealers and not void warranty issues. Some Convertible options were also done this way. But very few things got Pontiac approval.
Finally things like the DGP parts and other things Pontiac worked with vendors to make things for the car that related to show cars or races cars. While Pontiac was involved with many of these items they were never considered options Dealer or Factory installed. They have a special place in the cars history and still are special parts but were not ever an option. Dealers could add a DGP body but Pontiac would not cover any warranty issues on it. It was either up to DGP or most times the installing dealer to deal with the repair since it was not a factory authorized part.
Pontiac has had a long history of working with outside vendors even on other cars. In the 60's the XP 400 cars came with a Mickey THompson Supercharger and CIBIE lights. But these were never offered to the public. There were some dealers that would put them on but it was up to them if anything went wrong. There was a Pontiac Dealer here in Akron that built a GP convertible with the same superchaged 421 like Pontiac built and later sold it. A very good car to have today but it is still not considere a Pontiavc built car. In fact the car was located not long ago in AZ.
But like the Mickey Thompson SC and the DGP parts even though they were not offered by Pontiac directly the relationship of their use and work by Pontiac do give them added value. They are still tied in to specific cars and engineer or car programs. In other words they have value from history.
So a Fiero can be rear in may ways but it also will be classed in many different ways. So while it is classed different it still can be rare. Same goes for parts. While the car may not be rare it may have rare parts. We will see more of this with the Fieor as so many aftermarket parts were made in the 80's but today many and most are very hard to find. In some cases there are only a few examples of some of what was available back then still left. Just look at the many body parts that once were available then and what is left today.
But even with parts how many are left and how many people want them determine what the value is. DGP parts are still made today but demand is enough that they help the value of the car. But on the other hand there were some horrible ugly parts made in the 80's and today there may only be a few left but no one wants them.
The bottom line is when you talk rare you either have to talk parts as offered or RPO options as offered by the factory. Two different classes of added value a Fiero can see.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-23-2011).]
