That would be pretty awesome, I always liked those dashes.

We talked about this a while back, and no offense...



but I think you'd be taking a step backwards putting this dash into a Fiero...

I have to agree, I had a 3rd gen before and as much as I LOVED that car, I always wanted to put 4th gen dash in it. To each his own though, it is your car, and you do what you want.

[This message has been edited by Syn (edited 11-23-2011).]

IMO, my 88 Firebird Formula had the best instrumentation of any car I've ever owned.
I've got a 3rd gen cluster, right now. Planning to graft that in/on to the Fiero dash, instead of replacing the whole dash.
The wiring looks easy.

------------------
Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

have a pic raydar? sounds interesting!

Not much to take pics of right now.
I have the cluster, a couple of bezels, and a couple of switch panels with switches.
The F-bod headlight switch/dimmer panel is mounted in almost the identical position, relative to the cluster, as the Fiero switch.
The F-bod trunk popper and defog switch are normally mounted under the cluster.
I haven't decided how I'm going to do those switches, just yet.
I do want to retain either the Fiero panel or the Firebird panel, as opposed to cobbling together something new.

The F-bod bezel has a set of A/C outlets built in. The Fiero center pod will have to be removed/cut down, probably just above the heater controls.
That's going to be my biggest challenge. Making the new cluster/bezel work with the Fiero console and center stack.

In retrospect, a 70s T/A cluster may have fit better, but meh.

The wiring will be the easy part.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: The wiring will be the easy part.

Glad to hear that...if you need any help just holla.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Glad to hear that...if you need any help just holla.

Thank you sir! Much appreciated.

Bump!
If anyone has a pinout for the 3rd gen Firebird rear window defogger switch, I would appreciate it greatly.
I'm thinking that the late '80s - early '90s are all the same. Probably even the earlier years.

I've looked all over thirdgen.org. Close, but no cigar.
I don't even need a pic. Just need to know what color wires go to which pins on the connector. There are 5 wires. Labeled A B C D and P.
(Of course, the pinout is different from a Fiero. )

Thanks!

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Bump! If anyone has a pinout for the 3rd gen Firebird rear window defogger switch, I would appreciate it greatly. Thanks!

I found an entire schematic for a 88 Firebird. I have a slightly larger copy of it if you can't read it.

[This message has been edited by GraterFang (edited 02-19-2012).]

Perfect! Thanks!

Edit - I just realized that your connector has different pin labeling. (No "P" connector.)
You wouldn't by chance have a pinout of the socket would you?

Although... Looking at the diagram, I should be able to ohm it out.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-19-2012).]

i have a 86 TA and a 86 Fiero... I woudnt go that route at all. In fact i have the replaced the TA dash with a fourth gen TA one and its sitting...

Good luck though

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1986 Fiero GT/T intercooled turbo

As I guessed, the wiring was not too difficult. Most of the wires matched color-for-color. I was able to unpin and repin the wires into the F-bod connectors.
Some stuff that I noticed...

The Firebird cluster does not have a Charge Indicator light. The Fiero requires this light to provide excitation voltage for the alternator.
I used one of the unused lamp ports on the Firebird cluster, and made it a charge indicator. Problem solved.
There is also no provision for low oil pressure or engine overheat lamps. I may add them later. There are some blank ports.
The Fiero uses more wires than the Firebird cluster. (Mostly for gauge illumination and instrument cluster supply voltage. Also some unused speedometer wiring.)
I am leaving the unused wires pinned in their connectors. The connectors will be bagged and tied out of the way under the dash, in case I decide to go back.
The Fiero speedometer wiring is a bit of a PITA. Most of it is unused with the 4.9 (thankfully.)
Since the FB speedo just uses the 4000 PPM signal, fed directly from the ECM, all I'm having to do is bypass the speedo filter that Ed's folks installed.
The speedo is the only instrument that hasn't been tested as "working".

As mentioned, I had to cut down the center stack. I removed about two inches from both sides. The center stack now houses the radio and the HVAC controls.
The middle vent(s) are in the F-bod bezel.
The cluster and bezel will sit at about the same height as the stock pod. It's just much wider.
I'll take some pics after it's done and then decide if it's an "ugly baby" or not. (I'm going to take some pics, anyway, and post them here.)

At this point, the only thing holding me up is the defogger switch wiring, and a little bit of fabrication.
If I can't figure out that switch, I have a backup plan to use the Fiero trunk popper and defrost switches. Won't be quite as pretty, though.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-19-2012).]

Maybe the "P" you are seeing on the defogger switch is really an "E"? All of the other pins have matching letter designations and GM seemed pretty good about not jumping around with their letter designations in the late 80s. Are the wire colors different from what the schematic shows as well or do you have not have the original bit of firebird wiring there?

I unfortunately couldn't find a image showing the connector pinout itself. However, I can check another year Firebird if you like and see if I can find one that has this "P" pin

All I have is the Fiero connector. Moving pins around until I find the correct combination.
The P is definitely there. It's also on the diagram in the Fiero shop manual.

Looking in the 86 Fiero service manual I'm still only seeing A to E pin designations for the defogger switch...

I also checked a couple other years of Firebirds around that era for you too. Most have the same schematic and even those that are different have the same A to E pin designation.

The good news is that every one seems to be the same switch internally. I'm not sure what you have exactly but if its the same too then, like you said, you should be able to figure it out pretty easily with a multimeter and a 12V power source.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Thank you sir! Much appreciated.

Maybe I missed it, but have you posted a pic anywhere of your progress?

I think the third gen is a nice update of the Fiero as the "pod" dash was a holdover from the late 70s/early 80s.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Maybe I missed it, but have you posted a pic anywhere of your progress?

Not yet, but I'm still at the point where everything is scattered along my workbenches. I'm still buying fasteners, etc.
I plan to take some pics before I screw it all together.

Very anxious to see how this works out. Let us in on the fun as soon as you can.

Okay. Here we go.
It's not fully completed yet. I still have to deal with the middle A/C ductwork, and still have to come up with a top cover and a bottom panel.
But it's completed enough to be driveable.
It's not the "ugly baby" that it could have been, but it didn't integrate as well as I'd hoped, either.

Here's the bare cluster.


Here's the cluster with the lens and the bezel installed.


It was going to end up being too much trouble to wire the Firebird switches.
The Fiero switches worked just as well. I cut the holes in the panel with a dremel, and used brass tubing for standoffs.

Notice anything strange about the center pod?


What about now?


I know... The seams aren't very pretty.
I'll find something to fill them, if necessary. Due to where everything else is, they are fairly well hidden.

This is the really ugly part.
Something in the back of my mind kept poking me and telling me not to cobble up a perfect dash.


I also cut down the frame from an old Fiero pod. It will be used as an attachment point for covers and panels.
The only wires that couldn't be unplugged and re-pinned were the yellow speedometer feed, and two wires for the light switch illumination.
The Fiero doesn't even have illumination for the light switch, but the Firebird does. Figured I'd use it.


So... How does it look?


Sorry for the poor focus.

One more.


Obviously, I still need to do a bit of finishing in addition to the center A/C duct and the covers, but I think it'll live.
The only gauge that hasn't been tested is the speedo. Probably will get to do that tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-04-2012).]

Wow! I really like that! Unique for sure. I'm guessing all the idiot lights work as well? Did you get any non stock ones to work (like low coolant, etc) as that would be a nice addition.

My only suggestion (which is probably obvious) is to paint those bolt heads so they blend in better.

When are you going to make a kit?

^^Joking.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 03-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mattwa: My only suggestion (which is probably obvious) is to paint those bolt heads so they blend in better.

I know. They stand out.
They're allen head, so they kind of go with the interior, but black would be much better.
I found some black anodized screws, but not any washers. I'll keep looking.

The "ajar" light now reads "security".
There is a battery light.
No oil pressure or engine temp light. (IIRC... It's been a couple of weeks.) The Firebird appears to not have them.
There is a place for a low oil light. It's not functional since the oil pressure light in the Fiero cluster works off of the gauge reading.
I may try to figure it out, later on.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-04-2012).]

quote Originally posted by greenfiero1986: That would be pretty awesome, I always liked those dashes.

I always liked em too.

Brad

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Okay. Here we go.

Interesting... I wasn't expecting that. For some reason I thought you were doing the entire dash. Not that it would matter since there is no glove box in the third gen dash. lol

But it looks good. The wiring is not that bad, but you have to make a conscious decision on what lights do what. Just adding an idiot light is not going to magically add any capability to the Fiero that it doesn't support. And some things like the "ajar" don't exist in the Firebird. In my 4th gen I hooked that to the low traction light. One of these days I'll make custom transparencies on my ink jet but that is way down the line.

It is just a different 80s dash it suits the car but it doesn't give a modern look just a different look.

I like it a lot and wanted to do this to my last fiero in my opinion the car should have came with this stile dash

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this is the pics of all my cars http://www.motortopia.com/93xr7merc and http://www.fquick.com/bkcamaro
73 Buick Riviera GS 455 Big Block auto (#2 on dream car list)
78 Chevy C 10 Step Side Pick up 350 auto
85 Chevy Camaro Z28 383 stroker auto (#3 on dream car list)
96 Chevy Camaro Z28 350 LT1 auto (daily driver during the nice months) 14.1 at 99.25 mph 8/5/09
98 GMC 2500 350 auto (plow truck)
89 Ford F350 auto (fix and sell)
86 Pontiac Fiero 2.5L 5 speed (mgp car)

quote Originally posted by Australian: It is just a different 80s dash it suits the car but it doesn't give a modern look just a different look.

I know. It's far from modern.
I used to have a Firebird with the same dash, and thought it was some of the best instrumentation I ever had in a car.

I like the look with the exception of the trunk release and defrost switches. They look out of place to me. I think I would have found an alternative spot for them.

quote Originally posted by donnie072003: I like the look with the exception of the trunk release and defrost switches. They look out of place to me. I think I would have found an alternative spot for them.

That's where the Firebird switches are normally mounted. The style of switch is different, but that's where they are.
I think that some of the latest of the 3rd gen (91-92?) might have even used similar switches. I could be mistaken on this point, however.

The switches took more time than anything else I had to do.
The only other real options were to either mount them in the console between the window switches, or to build a panel that would replace one of the center A/C ducts, and mount them there. (I probably could have hidden them in the ashtrays, but I use them for junk storage - chips, screws, fuses, etc. )

I know. It's far from modern.
I used to have a Firebird with the same dash, and thought it was some of the best instrumentation I ever had in a car.
[/QUOTE]

but it looks great i was never a fan of other dash swaps cuz of the heater controls always looks out of place

quote Originally posted by jscott1: [snip] In my 4th gen I hooked that to the low traction light.

heh - that is what I did too.

I too also though he was talking about a whole dash swap - would like to see this once all done. Personally though I would have left in the Firebird switches.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-05-2012).]

Cool! I always liked the late 3rd gen dashes.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: That's where the Firebird switches are normally mounted. The style of switch is different, but that's where they are. I think that some of the latest of the 3rd gen (91-92?) might have even used similar switches. I could be mistaken on this point, however. The switches took more time than anything else I had to do. The only other real options were to either mount them in the console between the window switches, or to build a panel that would replace one of the center A/C ducts, and mount them there. (I probably could have hidden them in the ashtrays, but I use them for junk storage - chips, screws, fuses, etc. )

I didn't realize the firebird had switches there. Any idea what your going to do for the top of the dash? I always liked this gauge cluster.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: That's where the Firebird switches are normally mounted. The style of switch is different, but that's where they are. I think that some of the latest of the 3rd gen (91-92?) might have even used similar switches. I could be mistaken on this point, however.

Why didn't you just use the firebird switches?

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Why didn't you just use the firebird switches?

I started to. Had the trunk popper wired up. (Even that pinout was different, between the FB and the Fiero.)
The defogger didn't want to work. Never could find a correct diagram. I suspect that the FB switch has an internal timer, where the Fiero switch is just a switch. Either that, or the FB switch was just defective. The one that was in the 88 FB that I owned was starting to go bad, before I sold it in 98.
Anyway... I really didn't care, as long as I had something that worked.

On another tangent... I found some black alloy hardware today, so the "glow in the dark" bolt heads can go away, now.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I started to. Had the trunk popper wired up. (Even that pinout was different, between the FB and the Fiero.) The defogger didn't want to work. Never could find a correct diagram. I suspect that the FB switch has an internal timer, where the Fiero switch is just a switch. Either that, or the FB switch was just defective. The one that was in the 88 FB that I owned was starting to go bad, before I sold it in 98. Anyway... I really didn't care, as long as I had something that worked.

The wiring could have been figured out. The firebird switches were in the part of the bezel you cut away but it could have been relocated.

I know people say it's not more modern just different, but I think the third gen, especially the later third gen (88 to 92) was ahead of the Fiero in design.

If you ever want to get another bezel and use the firebird switches let me know.

I was going to put the Firebird defrost switch in the left bezel, where the fog lamp switch was mounted.
The trunk popper was going to go in the left bezel. More or less, where the Fiero switch is.