So I have a 92 Firebird with a 3.1 v6 and I recently got side swiped, totaling the vehicle. If the person who hit my car doesn't want a receipt for the repairs, I was thinking about selling the Firebird, since a lot of money needs to be put into it and I don't know the first thing about fixing up a car. My question would be: should I buy a better Firebird or get a Fiero? I know you all will say Fiero but why? My boyfriend has a Fiero and he's always working on it (mostly just being mods) but it's the only impression of Fieros that I have: always being worked on. Are they reliable cars? I love my Firebirds but I think it would be fun to have a Fiero as well, and my boyfriend could help me work on it and teach me a few things......Any thoughts?

Welcome to the forum! I think owning any car 20 years old or older, you would be wise to learn a bit about fixing cars. Either way, Fiero or 92 Fierbird, You'll probably be spending some time under the hood on a semi-regular basis especially if it's your daily driver. Consider it quality time with your boyfriend. To decide which one to go for then, I'd say it's a matter of which one stirs more passion in you.

My advice is that unless you can get a decent amount for your Firebird, it might be worth keeping (if you're planning on getting a Fiero anyway) as some of the parts could be useful in a Fiero...like the headlight motos/wiring/module, and the engine itself. Of course, that way means having to work (or have work done for you) on the Fiero...but also means you could get a Fiero with a blown engine(meaning cheap) if your Fierbirds was running well.

Otherwise I agree with what Blooze had to say about it!

if you are looking for a daily reliable driver... as an owner of a Fiero since 1988 - wouldn't do it again. (for a reliable)
but as a second WOW car... they are perfect.
but your correct - IMHO- own a Fiero... and you buy an auto shop.

[This message has been edited by boomme (edited 07-01-2011).]

The Fiero isn't any more or less reliable than any other car with the same age and mileage. How reliable would an '85 Firebird be?
You mention your boyfrirend always doing "mods" but how much of the work is fixing things that broke? Big difference.

They are old cars, though. Consider what kind of Firebird you'd buy and see what kind of Fiero you can get for the same money and go from there. Drive your boyfriend's Fiero and see if you like it. A Fiero will feel much different than a Firebird.

Welcome to the forum. Let us know what you decide to go with.

Having owned a 3rd gen F body, you will like the fiero better. They handle better, weigh less, and since you are coming from a 3.1, the fiero would be able to run circles around it (if its a V6) in a straight line too, they are just a funner car.

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84 2m4 72 whp 108 wtq, stock.

Thanks for the advice, I guess I should say my Firebird has almost 200,000 miles on it and my plan is basically to restore everything on it. From the little work that has been done on it, it seems as if most everything is still stock and it hasn't been taken care of. I have driven my boyfriends car before and it is very fun. His car is much faster and I love the acceleration on it even though I don't drive it anywhere where I can get the speedometer over 40, but I do enjoy driving it. Whether I get a Fiero or a Firebird, it will be my 'toy' car (I mean come on, if I plan to keep it for the rest of my life, it's not exactly the best family car) I love my firebirds but I think it would be fun to try something different

Edit: I bought the firebird for $2300 and the estimate for repairs is at $2200. And I don't think I'd be able to sell it for too much. It is running and has recent repair work, so it would be a good fixer up car for someone.

[This message has been edited by FireGirl (edited 07-01-2011).]

I have a 71 Firebird, and a fiero. Don't compare, they are totally different. However since your firebird is a 3rd gen and a V6 car... Now is the time to get rid of it and upgrade. If you want a 3rd gen firebird that you can work on, then start with a GTA.

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A Fiero isn't a Fiero until there's a engine swap, brakes, and suspension.

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"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."

$2200 to fix that? Seems high. Do you have insurance? You could take the other person to court.

as an owner of a 1987 Fiero and a 1995 TransAm.....i see that i drive one while fixing the other.

i have to get my TA fixed now, so i drive my Fiero Mera like a bat out of hell.
maybe, keep the Firebird learn to fix it and get a Fiero to drive till you get a real car, so you can keep your toys forever
i also have a Jeep Cherokee and being a 1996 its the newest in the fleet and quite family friendly

its a tough one i know......

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 07-01-2011).]

Well I went and got another quote and they estimated only $1500. The $2200 was from a car dealership, which is why it was probably high. We are trying to keep insurance out of it because we don't want rates going up for either of us.

Also I do have a 96 or 97 Sable that is, I like to call, my winter car. It is possible that the company of the guy who hit my car works for will want a receipt or a bill for the repairs. So if that is the case I will keep the firebird and fix it up, it will just be a life thing because there is so much I plan to do with her and don't want to spend the money on her right now. I thought maybe I could use the money to save up for a better car........as in a car without almost 200,000 miles on her. It would be fun to put in a newer and faster engine but not cheap...

Just indecisive as to if I want to keep a Firebird or try out a Fiero, I love them both

Except that Firebirds, TransAms, Camaros are common. Fieros are not. More impact if it's being different from the crowd that trips your trigger. I get lots of chatter at gas stations, etc.

Fieros are a special breed. They are a blast to drive decent to work on and can be made reliable if you are mechanically inclined. I must say this however, buying any 25 year old sports car is risky. You can find a good one but usually they aren't cheap, transversely cheap ones can be good if they are maintained. I would buy a cheap one with a v6 and expect to learn to repair it. Then, you'll have a reliable car you will know how to fix.

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(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

I do like the attention from people and being seen in both cars but not what Im after. Im more so after reliability, how it drives, how long the car will last if taken care of etc. I'm not one of those people that likes to speed 100mph or anything, I'm just an average follow the speed and the rules of the road person, so I don't need a fast car or anything (It would be a plus, I just don't know how often I'd use that). Is the Fiero still a good car for that sort of stuff?

Also anyone know of a good forum for firebirds? Looking at all these pics of Fiero's is making me lean more towards getting a fiero, I love how different they can be and I want to see if Firebirds are the same way...Thanks!

All depends on what you want...There 2 very diffrent kind of animals... now if were talking about a 3rd get firebird and a fiero I'd deffintley say a fiero. But if your looking at a 4th gen firebird try driving it. I had a 98 Firebird and loved it. Sadly i sold it for a solstice (notice a pattern?)

Now as for reliability its a hit or miss. Some are good some are bad.


The other thing to take into account is if you want to make your own thing out of the car the firebird croud is a bunch of purist's theres not much you can do to a firebird looks wise without it being called rice. fieros well the options never end.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 07-02-2011).]

Yes, considering Fieros were made in 84-88 (If I remember correctly) I know I will have to work on repairing it, which I don' t mind doing, as I know my boyfriend will help me with what needs to be done. I think my main concern is buying a Fiero that doesn't have a lot of miles on it. I know that's what mainly bugs me about my firebird now. Also knowing how hard parts to find for it are, but I feel like I have more resources with a Fiero than with a Firebird.

Edit: I have a 3rd Gen firebird is what I learned today (didn't know there were different generations lol) and I do not like the newer Firebirds, So I would stick with something around the same year as my firebird if I decided to stick with the firebirds.

[This message has been edited by FireGirl (edited 07-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by FireGirl: Yes, considering Fieros were made in 84-88 (If I remember correctly) I know I will have to work on repairing it, which I don' t mind doing, as I know my boyfriend will help me with what needs to be done. I think my main concern is buying a Fiero that doesn't have a lot of miles on it. I know that's what mainly bugs me about my firebird now. Also knowing how hard parts to find for it are, but I feel like I have more resources with a Fiero than with a Firebird.

Well if your looking for something to get around in and is going to be reliable and easy to work on I'd check out an 87-88 4 cylinder. There by no means fast and you'll get out accelerated by semi's (lol not really but they are slow) but there great on gas and still a blast to drive. I say 87-88 because the motor went under some drastic improvements from its predecessors But if you do chose a fiero make sure you pull up the truck carpet and check the corners for rust. if theres a big hole rusted in there DONT BUY IT. if theres a little your taking somewhat of a risk of having frame rail rust if theres none you should be good... preferably buy a car from the south most of them do not have rust problems

And Gen is a way of telling what style you have the newer ones are 4th gen's.. But if your thinking about sticking with a 3rd gen than I'd deffintley suggest a fiero there tons more fun and if you want to get into performance and looks mods the market for them is endless on here

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 07-02-2011).]

Thats not exactly what I had in mind when I pictured your car being "totalled"...you probably can't get your money back by selling it, but you could probably get enough to pay for a Fiero, if you find a good deal on one anyway. And that wouldn't stop me driving the firebird...just give me an excuse to paint it another color!

drill some holes and pull it out with a slide hammer and bondo it up.

quote Originally posted by Australian: drill some holes and pull it out with a slide hammer and bondo it up.

Ditto. That's nowhere near write-off damage... a slide hammer and some filler would clean that right up.

quote Originally posted by FireGirl: Well I went and got another quote and they estimated only $1500. The $2200 was from a car dealership, which is why it was probably high. We are trying to keep insurance out of it because we don't want rates going up for either of us.

That is what you have insurance for. If it wasn't your fault, then your insurance will not go up. Why spend money on insurance if you are not going to collect? Get it fixed and drive it or sell it. It will be worth more fixed and a waste of money to sell unfixed.

quote Originally posted by FireGirl: I do like the attention from people and being seen in both cars but not what Im after. Im more so after reliability, how it drives, how long the car will last if taken care of etc. I'm not one of those people that likes to speed 100mph or anything, I'm just an average follow the speed and the rules of the road person, so I don't need a fast car or anything (It would be a plus, I just don't know how often I'd use that). Is the Fiero still a good car for that sort of stuff? Also anyone know of a good forum for firebirds? Looking at all these pics of Fiero's is making me lean more towards getting a fiero, I love how different they can be and I want to see if Firebirds are the same way...Thanks!

Then get one like mine, a mild 3800 swap. Reliable like a stone bridge if done right.

[This message has been edited by weaselbeak (edited 07-02-2011).]

If you know who hit it let them or their insurance pay for it...thats the law....All I see you need is a $50 front fender and 1/2 days work on quarter panel. If you were closer, id prob do the job for $500-$600 painted and out the door. $2000 for a dealer body shop is prob about right as is $1500 for a reg shop. Id fix the bird. My gf just hit a deer with her Saturn. Front bumper, fender, grill, and headlite. Its all plastic too. Insurance gave her $2700 and since almost all of it is just bolting on replacement parts its a bit higher ( I do have to buy all the parts) but Im doing the job for $1600 with same brand new parts dealer would use.

Shes been driving an '84 4cyl, power equvalant of a v6 though. Her firebird has a 3.1 and i cant even powerbrake it in the gravel. I see way too much wrong with this car to be worth fixing. Tons of body work, needs a complete gutting and repair of the interior as the po replaced alot of wiring with cheap speaker wires, found this out just trying to fix her 12v plugs. Engine is at 200k, but think it has alot of life left in her. But at that age can get very unpredictable. Recently replaced water pump, alternator, fuel injectors, dont know the specifics but has always had a low idle at 500 or less and likes to die often. This car needs a near complete suspension fix as it will scrape going over a speed bump at less than 1 mph digonally. Havent looked but may need some repair work on the under carriqge. Not saying it cant be fixed, just will cost 5x more than the average bird on craigslist. Whatever choice is made, i feel it should be started with a different car.

Also, there is a bookmark on your laptop to a 3rd gen camaro/firebird forum. I think it was hawks third gen .com/org

Thanks Shill, I don't know whats wrong with my car, just enough to make me question it lol. And the company of the guy who hit my car will be paying for the repairs, it's just a matter of if he needs the receipt or if he's just going to give us cash and end of story.

Also, I don't know how to fix up a car, so I'm not sure I'd be able to fix that dent myself.......I know it would definitely take up some time for me, I would have no idea where to start, no tools to work on it with, no paint for the finishing touches....and no time or money to buy any of that with. I do still drive it around of course.

Edit: That website is just a link to a bunch of different websites..

[This message has been edited by FireGirl (edited 07-02-2011).]

The Fiero is a sports car. The Firebird with basically the same engine is a barge in relation. Which one gives you the most enjoyment? Buy that one.

Fieros can indeed be very reliable. I used one as my daily driver for almost 20 years.

Www.thirdgen.org

Hawks would be a place to find parts. Remember that because it is where I found the z28 wing I want.

Be aware of the community at the firebird/camaro forums, we are all biased against eachother. I view most of them as people who are strict on their thoughts, and just mentioning you were considering a fiero may get you flamed. I don't know this for sure, but I assume they have the same view on fiero as the general public who knows what they are. when I see the general population here , everyone has a respect for all cars, you will still get a biased opinion, but allot less people will be bashing the firebird here than there will be people bashing the fiero in the firebird forum.

[This message has been edited by Shill (edited 07-02-2011).]

Well thats rude! Guess Ill make sure not to ask them their thoughts on that then lol!

Not saying they will or won't. Just look out for and ignore the bashers that are there.

We need to call Carol and see what we can work out.

Joe Sokol

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

So sadly (not really) my friend brought up the idea of me buying a suby, which is a car I have wanted for a while. So I may save up to get a WRX instead of a fiero and sell my sable that I don't exactly like too much...The wrx I could drive in summer and winter, and with a fiero I wouldn't drive it in winter, as I don't do with my firebird as well. It scares me too much...

However, if I could get a fiero for pretty cheap and have the money for it, I may buy one, because I would like that instead of a firebird It just may not be the car I get right away; I would love to have one for Fiero Fest 2012 though! But this is still just a thought until everything gets fixed out with the firebird. It all depends on money and what I have to spend; I am also saving up to move out! Not sure I have enough money to also buy two cars right now! :P

I would like to thank everyone with all the advice! I will still keep everyone updated and let you know WHEN, not IF, I get a fiero! It just may be later rather than sooner

Edit: However, since it might be hard to find a WRX for cheap, I may actually get a Fiero first then save up for the WRX...Im not exactly wanting to spend $10k on a car, so I may get the Fiero sooner rather than later! But I will be searching to buy both cars and we will see what happens.

[This message has been edited by FireGirl (edited 07-03-2011).]

The guy should pay you the money whether you have it repaired or not. Take that money and sell the firebird for whatever you can get. The total is most likely more than what you could get for the repaired firebird. Then you buy whatever you want (and can afford )

quote Originally posted by FireGirl: So sadly (not really) my friend brought up the idea of me buying a suby, which is a car I have wanted for a while. So I may save up to get a WRX instead of a fiero and sell my sable that I don't exactly like too much...The wrx I could drive in summer and winter, and with a fiero I wouldn't drive it in winter, as I don't do with my firebird as well. It scares me too much... However, if I could get a fiero for pretty cheap and have the money for it, I may buy one, because I would like that instead of a firebird It just may not be the car I get right away; I would love to have one for Fiero Fest 2012 though! But this is still just a thought until everything gets fixed out with the firebird. It all depends on money and what I have to spend; I am also saving up to move out! Not sure I have enough money to also buy two cars right now! :P I would like to thank everyone with all the advice! I will still keep everyone updated and let you know WHEN, not IF, I get a fiero! It just may be later rather than sooner Edit: However, since it might be hard to find a WRX for cheap, I may actually get a Fiero first then save up for the WRX...Im not exactly wanting to spend $10k on a car, so I may get the Fiero sooner rather than later! But I will be searching to buy both cars and we will see what happens.

Now you were talking about wanting a reliable car, so let me just pop some figures out there for your consumption.

BNT, who supply brake, transmission and suspension parts, run a survey of their stock system every year. The last one revealed some interesting traits. Of their huge list of part numbers, 30% were for Subarus alone. When they ran the numbers on which lines were earning the most money, they discovered it was that 30% of parts, which makes up 70% of their product sales...

I've driven a few WRXs, and frankly although they are fast with good grip, they feel... hmmm... 'fragile'. The manual transmissions constantly feel like they're on the verge of a massive mechanical failure, the EJ20T boxer four is notorious for chewing out main bearings, and there's some question marks over wiring loom design on earlier models. If you're looking for a cheaper WRX, you'll be looking at cars that have either been beaten on or are quite old models. The only positive things I can think of while looking at WRXs is that the wheels are the right stud pattern and offset to fit a Fiero in most cases, and the brake system looks like it could be adapted too

Honestly? Go a non-boosted Impreza if you must go an Impreza at all. Likelihood of it having been driven like a rally car constantly is significantly lower and given the lower power output, the transmission and diffs won't be so worn.

[This message has been edited by Carcenomy (edited 07-06-2011).]

Sell the firebird.. forget the fiero... Trash the wrx idea..

Buy a Honda Civic.

quote Originally posted by datacop: Sell the firebird.. forget the fiero... Trash the wrx idea.. Buy a Honda Civic.

............Really?

haha anyway, I remember wanting to buy a WRX and having two cars in the first place is because I have a summer and winter car, and to me subaru's were good winter cars. I would love to move somewhere where it doesn't snow often so I may actually forget the WRX for now. I think the next car I buy (after I get this firebird thing all sorted out, my dad is never around to talk to about it all, its been almost a month since I've got hit!! -.-) will be a fiero........at least I hope it will be. The more I think about it the more excited I get

[This message has been edited by FireGirl (edited 07-07-2011).]

quote Originally posted by FireGirl: ............Really? haha anyway, I remember wanting to buy a WRX and having two cars in the first place is because I have a summer and winter car, and to me subaru's were good winter cars. I would love to move somewhere where it doesn't snow often so I may actually forget the WRX for now. I think the next car I buy (after I get this firebird thing all sorted out, my dad is never around to talk to about it all, its been almost a month since I've got hit!! -.-) will be a fiero........at least I hope it will be. The more I think about it the more excited I get

Really.

Fiero's are totally impractical. There's no trunk space to carry anything but a few bags of groceries.. and never ice cream.. There's no room for anyone except one passenger. They have tiny gas tanks so they can't go long distances.. They aren't the most fuel efficient cars out there.. They are under powered.. The plastic body panels hide any "true" problems the cars may have..

There are better handling, better performing, more efficient cars out there.

If you have to come to an internet forum trying to justify or quantify why you should get a Fiero over car brand X, Y or Z... then No, A Fiero isn't the car for you. You'll get tired of all it's limitations, tired of throwing money at it, tired of it leaving you stranded.. and you'll grow to hate it and the last thread you'll be posting is how much of a POS it is, how much of a loser we all are for liking them.. and how you're leaving us to buy a Civic.

We don't own Fiero's because we can justify them.. we own them cause we WANT them.. I have 3.

quote Originally posted by datacop: Fiero's are totally impractical. There's no trunk space to carry anything but a few bags of groceries.. and never ice cream.. There's no room for anyone except one passenger. They have tiny gas tanks so they can't go long distances.. They aren't the most fuel efficient cars out there.. They are under powered.. The plastic body panels hide any "true" problems the cars may have..

I just find it amusing that you say Fieros are underpowered, and recommend a Civic. A later model Fiero with the larger tanks, and the 2.5, can probably make it 400 or so miles before refueling. And most of the more "fuel efficient" vehicles out there are in the same range, and don't have a lot of power either. The more powerful models get lower mileage, and they don't have huge tanks either. If you want to buy a car for MPG, get a VW Golf TDI. If you want to get a car for power, buy a Corvette. If you want reliability, buy or lease a car with a warranty. Anything that doesn't have a warranty, you are not going to have any idea how reliable it's actually going to be, until you're taking it into the shop or something. It's just the way of life in buying cars. You either buy one hoping it will be reliable, or you buy one with some sort of protection in the case that something does happen.

quote Originally posted by Carcenomy: Now you were talking about wanting a reliable car, so let me just pop some figures out there for your consumption. BNT, who supply brake, transmission and suspension parts, run a survey of their stock system every year. The last one revealed some interesting traits. Of their huge list of part numbers, 30% were for Subarus alone. When they ran the numbers on which lines were earning the most money, they discovered it was that 30% of parts, which makes up 70% of their product sales... I've driven a few WRXs, and frankly although they are fast with good grip, they feel... hmmm... 'fragile'. The manual transmissions constantly feel like they're on the verge of a massive mechanical failure, the EJ20T boxer four is notorious for chewing out main bearings, and there's some question marks over wiring loom design on earlier models. If you're looking for a cheaper WRX, you'll be looking at cars that have either been beaten on or are quite old models. The only positive things I can think of while looking at WRXs is that the wheels are the right stud pattern and offset to fit a Fiero in most cases, and the brake system looks like it could be adapted too Honestly? Go a non-boosted Impreza if you must go an Impreza at all. Likelihood of it having been driven like a rally car constantly is significantly lower and given the lower power output, the transmission and diffs won't be so worn.

I work at a subaru dealer (and own subarus) and let me tell you, the wrx transmission is as strong as you want it to be, just dont drive like a retard, doing 5K sidesteps and trying to "burn " all 4 tires, and dont hammer on the shifter, its not a racecar, its a quick, reliable, pumped up econocar. As for the 2.0 eating rod bearings, yes they seem to spin them fairly often, but we've found that most of them are run on mobil1, and the fact that NOBODY checks thier oil, and cant understand that most turbocharged cars use oil! As for the wiring problem, I have no Idea what you are talking about, Ive never heard of or seen that problem, and my dealership is the largest in the midwest, I'm a member on nasioc, and I-club, and Ive never even read about that problem, so you must be mistaken. We have many 250K+ mile wrxs that roll through, and two 190K cars that our techs own (brothers) and not to mention my 96 impreza, which is a turbo'd n/a, and has 245K miles, original everything, runs like a champ, and made 100 more WHP than it was ever designed to. As for subarus being reliable, hell yes they are, we have an SVX that comes into the shop once or twice a year for maint that has 743K miles, no joke. My impreza now only pulls winter duty, as its gotten pretty beat up over the years, and I have the fiero and motorcycle to drive in the summer.

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84 2m4 72 whp 108 wtq, stock.

quote Originally posted by BillS: The Fiero is a sports car. The Firebird with basically the same engine is a barge in relation. Which one gives you the most enjoyment? Buy that one. Fieros can indeed be very reliable. I used one as my daily driver for almost 20 years.

While a Fiero CAN BE MADE INTO A SPORTS CAR, it most definately never was one. It was a cheap commuter car like a Geo Metro. If you go thru a list of sports cars Fiero will come in at about 765........LOL. I loved mine, but made them 'sports cars'. My Ferrari kitted one was prob most reliable everyday car Ive owned (150 +).