I want to lower the front about 2" . going by the pic if I cut the spring in the spot (1) it doesnt look like that would lower it much. but I've never done this before.. should I cut it there or at (2)?

Have fun man.

[This message has been edited by 87antuzzi (edited 12-25-2010).]

Not all Fiero springs are the same length, so the number of coils to cut off will be different depending on the springs you have and how low you wish to go. I cut off two coils on the front and back of my '84, but the '84 sits higher than the other years with its stock springs.

You can see what my options were in this club forum thread Here (although I realize I never did return to that thread to finalize it and post a picture of the 84's new stance).

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: You should lower it CORRECTLY......But hey, if you going for that super awesome look and dont give a crap about how it came from the factory just heat the springs.

huh? I thought most everyone on here cut the springs.. their not progressive right? so whats wrong with taking out some coils?

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: ...just heat the springs.

Why the heck would you suggest that? The last thing you'd want to do is to heat the springs and change their temper. Cutting the springs is vastly superior to heating and warping them.

The cut springs on my '84 with new Sensa-Trac shocks and struts certainly makes for a stiffer ride than factory, but that's what I was after and the stance looks great.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Okay, I just grabbed and cropped a frame of video from some autocross footage shot last fall. So this how my '84 (with newer body panels) looks with two cut coils front and back...

thats basically exactly what I want for the front so 2 it is then.. I was worried that might be a bit much.. but looks good to me

quote Originally posted by scott0999: I want to lower the front about 2" . going by the pic if I cut the spring in the spot (1) it doesnt look like that would lower it much. but I've never done this before.. should I cut it there or at (2)?

I've cut the front coils on every car and pickup I've ever owned. Based on that, Make your cut at "1"
Now, here's why. The springs are not coil-overs. They are acting about half way between the pivot point and the outer edge of the tire. If it was exactly half way, then 1" shorter springs would be a 2" lower ride height. Except that cutting them makes them effectively stiffer, but only slightly.
You can always re-cut them at "2" later, if you want. But for now, cut at "1", then drive the car for a couple of weeks. That'll give the springs time to settle to where they'll live for the next dozen years.

Have fun man.

[This message has been edited by 87antuzzi (edited 12-25-2010).]

Nothing wrong with cutting springs if you use a cut off wheel. try not to heat them up too much and they will be fine.
Here is two coils cut from an 88.

Here is THREE coils cut from an 86!


(Both are stock height rear springs)

------------------
88 GT "The Stray" 4.9L
86 GT 2.8L 4 speed
07 Solstice GXP 2.0L turbo
08 GMC Sierra 3500 Duramax Dually.
05 Tahoe on 20's (Kid hauler)

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: i'm sure i could fly a plane no problem.

[This message has been edited by Carver1 (edited 12-25-2010).]

...and here is one coil cut from the front of an 88.
Equalizes the gaps nicely.


If you use a cutoff wheel, your springs will retain their temper. Heating a spring to make it collapse is just ghetto.
And no, you won't fsck up your handling, break your windshield, or fracture your front crossmember (in spite of what one California resident, who couldn't believe that I didn't bow to his "superior knowledge", tried to get me to believe.)

------------------
Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fastback

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: What I mean is why cut them at all. Why not do it right and buy lowering springs and or ball joints. You can argue all you want, when you cut the spring it is jimmy rigging the suspension.

I agree 100%

------------------

BLUE BY YOU!
NYFOC

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: You can argue all you want, when you cut the spring it is jimmy rigging the suspension.

Limited cutting of the front springs is a very viable solution; car appears to be lower, spring rate is increased, and suspension travel should be fine with trimming of the bump stops. Lowering springs and lowering ballpoints are also viable solutions. Who are you to say that this method is incorrect? I think a better choice of words would have been, "...if you don't mind making modifications to your car". Lots of people here have made changes to the stock platform; engine swaps, audio upgrades, different wheels, et cetera.

Cutting the springs should not be done carelessly. Cut slowly, precisely, and be sure not to overheat the spring with whatever you're cutting with. The use of heat to change the spring rate, or a torch to make the cuts is an incorrect and careless thing to do. I do agree suspension dynamics should not be taken lightly, but saying that cutting the springs isn't a "correct" way to lower the car is a bit much. If you're so intent about doing things "correctly", would you replace your heater core with a used 20 year old core again?

Edit: If you're looking to lower the car a lot, try cutting between "1" and "2". I reluctantly helped a friend of mine cut two coils out of the front springs in his '86 GT. He couldn't get out of his driveway without coil binding. I eventually ended up owning the car and couldn't stand the ride. It's better to cut in small increments to find a place you're happy with.

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 12-25-2010).]

sofar the only thing I dont like about cutting them is look at the bottom (or top) end of the spring. it is flat across vs curved anywhere you would be removing coils. so once cut it seems the spring might dig into the LCA/spring pad some. which brings up the question -- once cut the cut end should be the top (so its in the spring pad) ?

as far as cutting between 1&2, I would but you know theres a spot in the LCA where the end of the spring sits. if you cut 1/2 way the spring would not seat in there anymore

I will be sure to go slow and not cut the whole thing at once

If anything, lowering ball joints are a jerry-rig in my opinion.

People are already worrying about their lower ball joints coming loose from the wishbones, and then you propose to move the ball joint further from the plane of the press-fit?

There seems to be a lot of unwarranted stigma with the spring cutting practice.

And then why would you buy commercial lowering springs? You don't know what you're getting. Rarely is any sort of information published.

You go on the Eibach website and all it tells you is that you get a certain drop with a sporty ride? What's that? That's no information at all.

With springs you cut yourself, you know what you're starting with, and you know what you're ending up with.

I have my cut springs with the cut ends seated in the tough lower wishbones, and the unmodified ends in the rubber pads, so they wouldn't get hacked up.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-25-2010).]

Agreed. The lower arms generally have a pocket for the end of the coil. So cut end goes down.

quote Originally posted by scott0999: as far as cutting between 1&2, I would but you know theres a spot in the LCA where the end of the spring sits. if you cut 1/2 way the spring would not seat in there anymore

Not a problem, because you can rotate the upper rubber pad for whatever spring clocking you have.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-25-2010).]

quote Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Not a problem, because you can rotate the upper rubber pad for whatever spring clocking you have.

oh thats right, gotcha

I'm going to do like you guys suggest and just cut 1 coil to start with. if thats not enough I'll try 1/2 more ect

thanks for all the info

heres a 1 1/2 coils cut on my 88 with 20" wheels

Yes, I should have worded it better.

Ok so I have some questions. I had always heard cutting springs was horrible. Maybe that just newer cars im not sure.. So one question I have I what do you cut the springs with and would u remove the shock from the spring?

quote Originally posted by Va_Fiero_10: Ok so I have some questions. I had always heard cutting springs was horrible. Maybe that just newer cars im not sure.. So one question I have I what do you cut the springs with and would u remove the shock from the spring?

angle grinder with a cutting wheel. Make sure the spring is securely clamped down, wear safety glasses ect

I just got done doing this. I clamped the spring to my workbench and cut for about 3 seconds. then I waited a minute for it to cool off. repeated that about 4 times and cut right through no problem

Ok. Im interested in trying this. So would you remove the shock from the spring? Or is the Fiero set up different as far as that? Havent picked up my car yet or I would go check out my car

quote Originally posted by Va_Fiero_10: Ok. Im interested in trying this. So would you remove the shock from the spring? Or is the Fiero set up different as far as that? Havent picked up my car yet or I would go check out my car

on my 86 the front springs are mounted separate from the shocks. on the 88s the front shocks are inside the springs. I've never had to work on a 88 but I dont think their front shocks are physically connected to the spring (like a strut setup) correct me if I'm wrong 88 guys

I wouldnt recommend doing this for the rear springs though, they look like progressive springs. I plan on using coilovers for the rear

[This message has been edited by scott0999 (edited 12-26-2010).]

When the spring is cut so is the compression rate if you want your car to appear low but bottom out cut them otherwise buy shorter springs.

quote Originally posted by Australian: When the spring is cut so is the compression rate if you want your car to appear low but bottom out cut them otherwise buy shorter springs.

have you ever tried it before? I dont see removing 1- 1 1/2 coils causing the car to bottom out at all

quote Originally posted by Australian: When the spring is cut so is the compression rate if you want your car to appear low but bottom out cut them otherwise buy shorter springs.

Ok, im confused with this. Whats the difference between cutting and lowering with aftermarket shorter springs? My thought is cutting spring to ride a inch shorter and buying shorter springs to drop it 1 inch it would be the same height. So if you bottom out with cutting you would buying lowering springs. Im just wanting to see if im understanding. For all I know theres a difference. Just curious. Thanks.

he must be referring to an extreme removal of coils. I doubt everyones fiero is bottoming out from cutting coils or there wouldnt be so many people doing it

you can usually eyeball springs if their progressive rate or not. if you look at the springs I posted notice how the coils are all wound same space apart. those are non-progressive springs and its ok to cut them. now progressive rate springs I personally Wouldnt cut those. they look something like the top coils would be close together, then the others would be further apart (theres a variety of different styles). for those I would buy aftermarket springs their shorter but have the progressive rate still

quote Originally posted by Australian: When the spring is cut so is the compression rate if you want your car to appear low but bottom out cut them otherwise buy shorter springs.

This is actually completely backwards. Spring rate increases as the spring is shortened. Consequently the spring travels less when compressed with the same amount of force. I hear people use this argument all the time.

quote Originally posted by scott0999: have you ever tried it before? I dont see removing 1- 1 1/2 coils causing the car to bottom out at all

A coil and a half is going to be putting your tires close to the wheel well scrub zone when banking hard. If you don't trim the bump stops, it would probably be very easy to bottom out the control arm. With correct trimming, you should be ok. On the other hand, two coils will be excessive. Remember that my friend's car was "slammed" with two coils removed.

Do not cut the rear springs. Instead build coilovers if you can.

It's also worth pointing out that west coast does sell custom rate lowering springs for the front of all Fiero's.

http://www.westcoastfiero.c...pension/springs.html

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 12-26-2010).]

quote Originally posted by pmbrunelle: ...you can rotate the upper rubber pad for whatever spring clocking you have.

I might mention that the 84's do not have a rubber pad located at the top of the front springs. That might be one of those odd things that's only applicable to the 84's.

I'm going the extra mile tonight..

I dug these up. I was wrong, it seems we only cut 1-3/4 - 2 coils from my friends car. I have the photo evidence:



And this is how VERY low the car was afterward.


Here's what my coupe looks like with 1-1/4 coil cut. Perfect.

quote Originally posted by L67: ...two coils will be excessive. Remember that my friend's car was "slammed" with two coils removed.

Refer to my earlier post copied below. What you're saying is simply not true in every case.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Not all Fiero springs are the same length, so the number of coils to cut off will be different depending on the springs you have and how low you wish to go. I cut off two coils on the front and back of my '84, but the '84 sits higher than the other years with its stock springs.

I also posted a picture of my gold '84 above. It's not "slammed".

And what are your reasons for stating the following?

quote Originally posted by L67: Do not cut the rear springs.

quote Originally posted by L67: I'm going the extra mile tonight.. I dug these up. I was wrong, it seems we only cut 1-3/4 - 2 coils from my friends car. I have the photo evidence: And this is how VERY low the car was afterward. Here's what my coupe looks like with 1-1/4 coil cut. Perfect.

nice thanks for posting that. I'm so glad I didnt cut 2 coils

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Refer to my earlier post copied below. What you're saying is simply not true in every case.

I couldn't agree with you more! I know also that the '88 are different. The car I referenced was an '86 GT for posterity. The car rode like a tractor afterward.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: And what are your reasons for stating the following? "Do not cut the rear springs"

Personal experience. After cutting mine enough to even out the wheel gap with the front on my '88, the springs would come unseated each time the car was lifted. The front control arms don't have enough travel to unseat the spring. The rear springs are also progressive rate, so removing a full coil will result in completely different amounts of drop, depending on where the cut was made in the spring. I found it to be much trickier to get the correct result than with the front springs. It can be done of course, I just personally think that a cheaply built set of coil overs will allow for all of the proper adjustment and will route any margin of error or uneven spring rate between the left and right rear springs. The fronts are exceedingly straight forward, and I heartily recommend cutting them. I'm glad to hear you had great results with cutting your rear springs.

I had to cut more than two coils out of the rear springs to get the stance I was looking for - once again, on an '88 supsension. The spring having to be aligned each time the car was lowered was annoying, and in my case what Antuzzi referred to earlier as "rigged". Being I feel that way about my old personal setup, I was just suggesting a different approach for the rears.

I will post my results once the car is back on the ground. I'm doing a bit more than just cutting the springs though so hang in there

quote Originally posted by L67: After cutting mine enough to even out the wheel gap with the front on my '88, the springs would come unseated each time the car was lifted.

You bring up a good point which I noticed as well when I cut off two full coils on the rear of the '84. I have to be careful when raising the '84 off the ground that the rear springs are now actually "in place" when the car is lowered. It's a nuisance, although not really that big of a deal once the issue is noted.

My biggest concern of course is that the rear spring(s) will jump out of place if/when the car becomes temporarily airborne and the control arms are hanging down far enough. Since I'm not usually trying to outrun the cops, this has yet to become a problem.

Seriously though, I don't like the idea of the possibility of the cut rear springs becoming unseated under hard driving, but I honestly don't know if it's a valid concern. I haven't had a problem after several months of driving, including three autocrosses.

quote Originally posted by Va_Fiero_10: Ok, im confused with this. Whats the difference between cutting and lowering with aftermarket shorter springs? My thought is cutting spring to ride a inch shorter and buying shorter springs to drop it 1 inch it would be the same height. So if you bottom out with cutting you would buying lowering springs. Im just wanting to see if im understanding. For all I know theres a difference. Just curious. Thanks.

Get 2 pens pen pull them apart and get the springs out now cut out a coil out of one. Stretch the shorter spring to the length of the longer spring replace the springs into the pens. After a few hundred clicks one pen will stuff up now you tell me will you have the same problem on a car i think yes. I cannot think of an easy way to explain it but by shortening springs you will not have the same compression. If an after market spring is made to be stronger than a stock spring even when shorter what makes you think cutting a stock would still have anywhere near the same strength as a stock let alone an after market. Your not improving your handling but ruining it there have been many threads on this with it explained better than i ever can. Warn springs sit lower too but it doesn't make them any good!

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 12-26-2010).]

Ok so another question. Why would U cut the front springs and leave the back stock height? is this a style thing? or a preformance thing or what?

quote Originally posted by Va_Fiero_10: Ok so another question. Why would U cut the front springs and leave the back stock height? is this a style thing? or a preformance thing or what?

some people might like that look, I'm not sure. I'm lowering the front and rear. maybe they just cut the front springs since its basically a free mod (if you already have the tools), and will deal with the rear later idk

I have always cut the front and left the rear stock. I like the raked look. The 88's sit higher in the front, so cutting the front springs kinda evens it out nice.
My 86 sat WAY high in the rear.I liked it, but got some weird looks too. The front was so low I could push a pack of smokes down the road.....