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Herb Adams VSE Sway Bars Available Again? by hyperv6
Started on: 11-19-2010 11:40 PM
Replies: 26
Last post by: hyperv6 on 03-15-2011 11:25 AM
hyperv6
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Report this Post11-19-2010 11:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
Check this out as it looks like the VSE bars are in production again direct from Herb Adams.

http://passion-motors.com/VSEPerfomanceParts.aspx

To those who do not know who Herb Adams is, he was one of the main tuners for many of the greatest handling Pontiacs ever.

I have an original set of his bars on my Fiero and they are the best set I have seen made. They were originally made for Showroom Strock racing in the 80's and he then sold them to the public. My car is very neutral and handles well with these. I would recomend them to anyone who is looking for a great set of bars.

Here is a web story on Herb to give you an idea who he is. To tell you how well he could tune a car is that he took his wifes 1964 Lemans and could run in the top 5 in Trans Am back in the 1970's.

http://www.pontiacsonline.com/Herb%20Adams.htm
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Report this Post11-19-2010 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
Looks like they have a larger diameter bar for the rear listed? I thought most kits currently available are bigger in the front?
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Report this Post11-20-2010 01:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbSend a Private Message to wftbDirect Link to This Post
i think the listing is backwards .best to phone before you buy to make sure anyways .
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Report this Post11-20-2010 08:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joe 1320Click Here to visit Joe 1320's HomePageSend a Private Message to Joe 1320Direct Link to This Post
Hmmm...... I had a full Herb Adams setup on my old 79 TransAm. That thing cornered like a beast. That would be worth looking at if they are indeed building parts.

------------------
84 2.5
87 328 GTB replica
87 Coutach replica

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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-20-2010 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
It might be thicker due to the arms needing to be longer so the sway bar does not hang down under the cradle...

Not getting my hopes up since they listed the fiero as 84 and up and the covette at 84 and up... That just shows the info is quite dated.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-20-2010 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
Just to let some facts get in the way.

The rear bar is 1.5" over the front 1" bar because in extensive testing this is what worked the best when they set up a 1985 GT for Showroom Stock racing. They also lowered the car one inch and went to 225-50-16 tires. They did offer a ball bearing control arm bushing that takes out all the bump steer out of the rear suspension. With these parts the Test car was over 1 G on the skid pad. Note this was with 1984 technology tires too.

The listing is just the old listing that Herb and Moroso used when all these bars were originally available. They were sold into the 90's and even then never changed the listing. These will fit 84-87.

The rear bar needs about 3 holes if I recall drilled for the mounting plate on the frame. It was a very easy install. The rear is mounted in rear control arm in the holes already in it. The front bar is a bolt on and uses solid links.

I have been around Fiero's since the start and these were the best bolt on bars available for the stock suspension.

I have had them on since around 1989 and never had an issue with them. The only thing you need to watch is with the bar mounted low in the rear it could get caught on something. But in all these years I have never had an issue.

Herb is not just another company that just makes bars. He is a hands on guy that did the design work not only on most of the Pontiac production cars but also in real road racing cars. He is now also building his own Pontiac powered sports car line that is killer.

As for the size Take my word as a owner of these bars that they work and work very well. This is not just some front bar or a bar from some other car adapted to this car. It was designed and built buy one of the best GM engineers to work for the 84-87 Fiero only.
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Report this Post11-20-2010 10:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


The rear bar is 1.5" over the front 1" bar because in extensive testing this is what worked the best when they set up a 1985 GT for Showroom Stock racing. .


I thought the listing said 1.25 inch rear, or is that a typo?

 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
They did offer a ball bearing control arm bushing that takes out all the bump steer out of the rear suspension. With these parts the Test car was over 1 G on the skid pad. Note this was with 1984 technology tires too. .


I'm also wondering how control arm bushings remove bump steer... isn't bumpsteer caused by the geometry of the suspension.... which wouldn't be changed by control arm bushings?


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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-20-2010 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:


I'm also wondering how control arm bushings remove bump steer... isn't bumpsteer caused by the geometry of the suspension.... which wouldn't be changed by control arm bushings?



Sorry it is 1.25 my typo.

Per how it was explaind to me was the bushings on the control arms and cradle all give when you hit bumps. This deflect the toe in on the tire and will make the rear change direction on you. By going with stiffer frame bushings and the solid bearing control arm bushings this removes the deflection and the toe in remains stable.

The 84 Fiero I have heard is even worse with the rear tie rods going to the body and not the frame as they later changed it to a frame mount on the 1985-87. I have no fooled with the 84 much so all I can tell you is what I was told.

The real key is controling the rear toe in on the Fiero as it is why most Fiero's on a bumpy road feel like the rear and the front just do not work in harmony. It really feels like they are two cars doing their own thing.

I know many think the Fieo is the best handling car in the world. Well it's not but with a little work many of the GM issues can be addressed and make any 84-87 feel closer to a 1988 set up.

A great handling car should be able to be driven easily on bad road fast. While the Fiero can be driven fast you really have to work to get the results on anything other than a smooth surface. I have driven enough very very good cars to know a well tuned one is easy to drive silly fast. I can get my Fiero into a 4 wheel drift in a corner but you have to really work to keep the front and rear suspensions working together. On a well tuned car a driver should not have to do that.

Even my HHR SS tuned by the GM Performance Divison is a good example of getting it right. Even with 300 HP at the front wheels I can easily drive it to the limit with out any drama. To be honest it is amazing what they did to a normal HHR. They learned to not worry about tuning to max race track conditions and worry more about real world roads. It is the time at the Geen Hell in Germany [Nurburgring} that they are now applying better tunes to all the cars that the GMPD division has tuned like the CTSV, HHR SS, Cobalt SS, Trailblazer SS, ZR1 and even the up coming Regal GS or Z/28.
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Report this Post11-20-2010 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IsoldeSend a Private Message to IsoldeDirect Link to This Post
Why are you bashing '84 tires? The '84 'vette Z51 could do 0.95g pure stock. Get another pair of the 9.5" rear wheels instead of the regular 8.5" fronts, it was over 1g with NO other mods. Those Goodyear Gatorbacks were every bit as sticky on hot dry pavement as today's best street-use Goodyears..
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-20-2010 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Why are you bashing '84 tires? The '84 'vette Z51 could do 0.95g pure stock. Get another pair of the 9.5" rear wheels instead of the regular 8.5" fronts, it was over 1g with NO other mods. Those Goodyear Gatorbacks were every bit as sticky on hot dry pavement as today's best street-use Goodyears..


Wow a 1984 tire fan? LOL!

No bash here! My dad, grandfather and mother inlaw are all retired from Goodyears head quarters with over 30+ years each. I would would be their myself it they had not down sized. I am a big Goodyear fan and know their product bad and good well.

The 1984 Gator was a very good tire and one of the best back in 1984. But like the Fiero todays tires enjoy near 30 years of advanced tread design and the biggest gains in compounding. Tire compounds today are everyting today. The Eagles that are out now are several steps beyond what the original Gator was in wet and dry traction. Most people just do not really understand how far tires have come in the last 40 years when radials started to become more common.

Hell I even have a set of first generation Comp TA tires from 1982 on my FIero now. They may be the only ones left as I have not seen another one like them in near 15 years. They were even stickier than the Gators but they would also only last 17,000 miles. The compound was soft as BFG would shave them down and run them as slicks in SCCA Show Room Stock. They also would not meet OE MFG standard for OE Equipment on new cars back then.

Yes I have Comps on the Fiero even with Dads discount on Tires as they were free from the TA group manager I used to do work for. They are in very good condition yet but I will replace them in a year or so with the new Eagles.

The gains the new tire with the same car would be a lttle better in dry with better turn in. The wet would be a giant gain as the tread is more advance and the new compound work better in wet conditions. The Tire compounds have a little grit to them for more grip. They suspend it in the rubber and it make for better wet and snow traction with out making the tire soft and wear faster. The old Gators had grip but little in mileage. They seldom lasted 25,000.miles. My last set of Goodyears lasted over 50,000 miles and had solid grip in all conditions.

So like I said they had good things back then but as time and technology moves on the products of today just have a much greater advantage.

I could remember then the Goodyear Radial GT was the ultra performance tires on the Vette in the late 70's. Today that same type of tire would not even come close to the performace of the Assurance Triple Tread.

Growing up here in Akron where everyones mom, dad and grand parents worked for one of the major tire companies had one major advantage, it give you a major understanding of tires and sometimes free passes to thwe restricted areas of Gasoline alley at Indy.

Herb Adams did a full run down on how to tune the Fiero to the bars including the aligment. The original info used the Gators in 225-50-16.

One side note. I met a engineer from Goodyear years ago. He had a 1985 GT and had 16" Pontiac wheels on it. These are the same wheels Pontiac used that were made of a Plastic compsite that never made production. They can be seen in some of the early photo's of the 1990 GT. When they canceled the wheels they let him keep them. I would love to know where they are now.

He also told me that they looked at doing 17" tires too buy there was little gain with the way the car was set up. They would have cost more and gained little over the 16" tires with the way the car was set up.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 11-20-2010).]

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Report this Post03-13-2011 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsDirect Link to This Post
The rear swaybar is so much bigger because with the stiffness of the stock fiero springs, the rear needs a much bigger bar. The stiffness ratio of the back to front needs to be the same as the weight distribution to have a truly neutral handling car.
My friend's father has this bar on the back of his 84 along with koni shocks and struts and solid bushings on the front A arms and various engine mods to his duke and his car handles like an animal. He has the stock front bar and maybe the car oversteers a tiny tiny bit, but it seems 99% neutral in really really fast turns. This is on 84 wheels as well. If you have coilovers or really stiff springs in the rear, then you will need a bigger bar in the front. But if you want to keep the stock springs, then the way to go is with a bigger bar in the rear.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-14-2011 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

The rear swaybar is so much bigger because with the stiffness of the stock fiero springs, the rear needs a much bigger bar. The stiffness ratio of the back to front needs to be the same as the weight distribution to have a truly neutral handling car.
My friend's father has this bar on the back of his 84 along with koni shocks and struts and solid bushings on the front A arms and various engine mods to his duke and his car handles like an animal. He has the stock front bar and maybe the car oversteers a tiny tiny bit, but it seems 99% neutral in really really fast turns. This is on 84 wheels as well. If you have coilovers or really stiff springs in the rear, then you will need a bigger bar in the front. But if you want to keep the stock springs, then the way to go is with a bigger bar in the rear.


Herb recomends to use stock springs cut one inch. The whole set up intended for show room stock and to get the car neutral. the larger front bar helps as it is a one inch. With out it the car if set up as recomended can be a little on the lose side.
Herb had some alignemt spec's I have that were great for racing and if I recall got the car to 1 G on the skid pad. They were not settings you would want to run on the street as the camber was a little harsh for street driving.

The only reason Herb recomended the stock springs was to keep the ride better and also the fact there really was not much out in the way of springs when he did this work in 1984. Today he may recomend other springs. He is pretty old school on factory springs though.
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Report this Post03-14-2011 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Herb recomends to use stock springs cut one inch. The whole set up intended for show room stock and to get the car neutral. the larger front bar helps as it is a one inch. With out it the car if set up as recomended can be a little on the lose side.
Herb had some alignemt spec's I have that were great for racing and if I recall got the car to 1 G on the skid pad. They were not settings you would want to run on the street as the camber was a little harsh for street driving.

The only reason Herb recomended the stock springs was to keep the ride better and also the fact there really was not much out in the way of springs when he did this work in 1984. Today he may recomend other springs. He is pretty old school on factory springs though.


Pretty hard to argue with "Old School" when it works ! Sure you can go with adjustable coil-overs, but if your not a full time racer (and really know how to jack a car), now you've got 4 chances to make a mistake on the adjustments. True race setups are generally set so firm (because you have a smooth track), you'd never want to run that setup on the street. Since I don't competitive race my Fiero the cut 88 springs, in my opinion really improved the performance, without the hassle or expense of going to coil over's (unless you really get a kick out of turning wrenches after every run on the track).

I run his alignment spec's at all four corners, they are aggressive for street, but for my seasonal driver the tire wear really isn't too bad. If you have a lot of roads with black top with truck tire channels depressed in, it can get to be a handful to drive with these settings.

------------------

Car History: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025670.html

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Report this Post03-14-2011 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsDirect Link to This Post
I am going to get the rear bar. If I feel I need new springs all around, I'll get the front bar too because I will be getting stiffer rear springs. Im also gunna get the solid front a arm bushings , they make a big difference, and don't squeak.
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Report this Post03-14-2011 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pHoOlClick Here to visit pHoOl's HomePageSend a Private Message to pHoOlDirect Link to This Post
Hmm... so do we really need to get both the front and the rear? Or can we just get the rear for 84-87s?
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Report this Post03-14-2011 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnDirect Link to This Post
At one time I had the Adams bars on my car. These bars are ungodly stiff! For a few months I had the rear Adams bar with the stock front bar. If you pushed it at all it would oversteer. After the second time the rear end tried to pass the front end I wised up and bought the front Adams bar to compliment the rear one.
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Report this Post03-14-2011 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
Like doc stated you really should always buy both bars in any set. They are matched to work together. To just do one bar is leaving some performance on the table or the other way could just leave you will a handling issue at the limit.

That is what always worries me when I see people adapting bars for their Fiero and not really knowing what it is going to do. It may feel better than stock but that dose not make it well sorted.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 03-14-2011).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-14-2011 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post

hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

I am going to get the rear bar. If I feel I need new springs all around, I'll get the front bar too because I will be getting stiffer rear springs. Im also gunna get the solid front a arm bushings , they make a big difference, and don't squeak.


Now the Herb Adams busing he offered for the Fiero are solid bearings for the rear control arms. The Idea is to make them solid and remove all the bump steer. You really do not want them on a daily driver or a car that sees a lot of weather. They are open bearings.

I also would recomend the front bar. The rear makes it feel good but it can be better. It is not a point of if but when you spin it. Too much rear bar without a match to the front could create issues. There is a story out on this kit Adams wrote and he tried a lot of bars to get it right. If the man made a front bar there was a reason.

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Report this Post03-14-2011 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsDirect Link to This Post
The solid bushings were for the front, not the rear. They were to make steering tighter and not mess up the front geometry in a hard turn. Also the Kit is recommended with one inch lowering springs which could stiffen up the rear enough that a front bar is needed too, but I plan on keeping the stock springs, and I have ridden first hand in an 84 fiero with just the rear bar, solid front bushings, poly endlinks and bushings up front, and koni shocks all around, and that car has been autocrossed many many times and only spun once during. Also I am putting the 3.8 N/A v6 in my fiero which adds around 30 pounds, so the back would need to be a little more stiff than when stock anyways.

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 03-14-2011).]

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Report this Post03-14-2011 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsDirect Link to This Post

zkhennings

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I understand your concern but I have witnessed it first hand working perfectly. If I feel the car begins to have excessive amounts of oversteer I will get the front bar too. But with the swap especially I think it should be fine. Ratio of weight distribution front to rear should be the exact same ratio as suspension stiffness front to rear.
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Report this Post03-14-2011 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalDirect Link to This Post
Is the Herb Adams bar significantly better then the Fierostore rear bar? I know he really knew his stuff but I was just wondering what the differences were. Right now I have the FS rear bar, and stock front bar with poly mounts with rodneys zero-lash end links, eibachs all around with Koni's, was just wondering if it would be worth upgrading for a daily driver.
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Report this Post03-14-2011 11:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsDirect Link to This Post
Yes, the bar has almost no bushings, super thin greased ones, and it mounts to the A arms though BOTH holes so It is super planted. It also has a very complex shape compared to the fiero store or addco bars. It does not use regular endlinks and has barely any bushing at all. My friend's dad's fiero is the flattest cornering car I have ever been in, and I have a swaybar on the back of my own fiero which corners very flat.
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Report this Post03-15-2011 05:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

The solid bushings were for the front, not the rear. They were to make steering tighter and not mess up the front geometry in a hard turn. Also the Kit is recommended with one inch lowering springs which could stiffen up the rear enough that a front bar is needed too, but I plan on keeping the stock springs, and I have ridden first hand in an 84 fiero with just the rear bar, solid front bushings, poly endlinks and bushings up front, and koni shocks all around, and that car has been autocrossed many many times and only spun once during. Also I am putting the 3.8 N/A v6 in my fiero which adds around 30 pounds, so the back would need to be a little more stiff than when stock anyways.



I know a little of this first hand since I have owned and driven this set up for over 20 years on a 85 V6. So I have a little idea what this can and can't do. No matter what you say Adams as do all other MFG of bars recomend you put a front on or both but never recomend just the rear. I am not trying to disagree with you as so much just telling you what Adams and other recomend. This was stated clear in the old Moroso Catalog that the VSE line originally was distributed in the past. It is not a matter of seat of the pants feel but MFG recomendations.

Where did he get the front bushing are they the universal steel/nylon VSE front bushings?

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 03-15-2011).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-15-2011 06:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post

hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by zmcdonal:

Is the Herb Adams bar significantly better then the Fierostore rear bar? I know he really knew his stuff but I was just wondering what the differences were. Right now I have the FS rear bar, and stock front bar with poly mounts with rodneys zero-lash end links, eibachs all around with Koni's, was just wondering if it would be worth upgrading for a daily driver.


I would say they are close as there is only so much you will gain with either or even the Addco kit.

The real difference is the bars are a little larger and will have a little more force to keep the car flat or rolling over on the springs. The front VSE bar uses the soild hemi end links that are adjustable.

The rear bar mounts low and is not what I would crazy shaped. It mounts to the lower control arms in the holes used on the swaybars when these same control arms are used on the front of a GM A Body FWD car. They use high durometer rubber with brackets and just bolt on. The bar itself will have two brackets you need to drill and bolt to the side of the subframe. It is not hard to do.

The bars are both the Herb Adams VSE anodized Gold.

The only real negitive is the rear bar is low on the car. I have never had it hang up anywhere or cause my any trouble but is one of the lowerst I have seen. I did hit a curb with the rear brackets once backing into a parking spot. It did not hurt the brackets but it did chip the curb.

None of the bar kits are bad and all do a pretty good job. THe VSE kit was just the largest and most agressive one of any offered.

I should get some photo's of what they look like and how they mount so people know. I never really got any good shots of them.

Here is one of the rear in this photo. You can get an idea of how it mounts and how low it is. I will have to see if I can dig up the original Herb Adama story in Car Craft on how he set up this kit originally. It is interesting and tells why he did what he did.



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Report this Post03-15-2011 07:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post

hyperv6

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Here is one of Herbs stories on the Fiero suspension. This one has been posted in several publications over the years. There is another on the building of the Car Craft Fiero suspension too. I will have to see if I can dig mine out.

Keep in mind this was written in 1984 and was about one of the first tuned Fiero suspension. So things like the tires are a little out of date since Eagle VR's have not been made for years.


ALL FIRED UP!

The following article is an excerpt from a 1991 Kit Car magazine article from Herb Adams VSE. I have only included the suspension information. Herb Adams was a GM engineer who went on to produce some of the best handling "massaged" Pontiacs of the 1970s to 1990s.

FROM THE GROUND UP

Making a standard production car handle well on the racetrack often requires a variety of modifications. Each change is aimed at correcting one or more problem areas. You should start from the ground up by selecting the right tire sizes.

The basic handling problems any rear- or mid-engine car is that the center of gravity is behind the traction center of the tires. Rear-engine race cars compensate for this by using larger tires on the back and smaller tires on the front. This moves the traction center to the rear so it is on, or behind, the center of gravity. You can use larger rear tires on your Fiero for the same benefit. The stock rear fenders have room for Goodyear ZRS 255/50x16 tires on 16x9 wheels, although 225/50x16 tires on 16x8 wheels will also provide improvement.

The basic stability of your mid-engine Fiero can also be improved by moving the center of gravity forward. The easiest way to do this is to move the battery from the rear to the forward luggage compartment, or fit it ahead of the right front wheel well. The latter location requires more work, but it does preserve some of the limited storage space.


BEEF UP YOUR BUSHINGS

The rear control arms on a stock Fiero are mounted the the frame with rubber bushings. They allow the rear arms to move forward under power and rearward under braking, and the effect on handling is a change in steering direction whenever the throttle or the brakes are applied. The other problem with the earlier Fiero rear control arm bushings is that they deflect inward during cornering, which changes the rear wheel camber angle. Both of these handling problems can be corrected by replacing the stock rubber control arm bushings with steel bushings.

Steel bushings are required for this application because of extreme loads resulting from driving and cornering forces. I have found that the only bushings that hold up are aircraft-quality hardened steel on hardened steel mono-balls. Steel sleeves must be welded to the control arms to secure the mono-balls in place. This operation requires that the rear arms be removed from the car. The installation takes time and money, but is well worth the results. Changing the rear control arm bushings is the most significant change that can be made to improve your Fiero's handling. *

When the rubber is removed from the rear control arm bushings, there is potential for more ride harshness and road noise. This is usually not a problem because the rear sub-frame is still mounted to the body with rubber mounts.

If you want ultimate handling on the racetrack and you're not concerned about noise, you can replace the rubber sub-frame mounts with steel or aluminum to keep the sub-frame from moving in relation to the body. The handling improvements gained by this modification are less than when the control arm rubber is removed, but it does provide some advantage on the racetrack.

The front control arm bushings are also mounted in rubber so they deflect when cornering loads are applied. If these bushings are replaced with steel and nylon bushings, there is a noticeable improvement in front-end cornering power. Since the weak link in the Fiero handling is not the front suspension, and because there is less weight on the front end, changing the front control arm bushings is not recommended unless race ready handling is desired. The arm must be removed from the car to replace the bushings.


NEUTRALIZING UNDERSTEER

Besides the rear control arm bushings, adding and/or changing the stabilizer bars are the most significant handling improvements you can make on your Fiero. Due to the Fiero's inherent tendency to spin-out at the limits of its cornering power, Pontiac engineers tuned the cars handling characteristics to provide an excessive amount of understeer. This trait ensures safe handling for the majority of drivers, but does not permit fast cornering. The stock Fiero uses a front stabilizer bar and no rear stabilizer bar to create the desired understeer. If your Fiero has steel rear control arm bushings, its rear suspension is capable of absorbing more cornering force, so some amount of rear stabilizer can be used. I have found that by increasing the effectiveness of the front stabilizer bar, we can use a large rear stabilizer bar. By matching the size of the front and rear bars, it is possible to make a Fiero handle with neutral steer instead of excessive understeer. Neutral steer provides the maximum cornering speed because all the tires work at the same level. Large front and rear stabilizer bars limit the body roll angle and positive camber, which keeps the tires from losing cornering power

The use of large front and rear stabilizer bars doesn't have any significant effect on ride quality or road noise. The addition of the front and rear bars will also make a significant improvement in steering response and precision. The 1.25 inch diameter rear bar recommended by my company, (Herb Adams VSE, Dept. KC,23865 Fairfield Place, Carmel, CA 93923 408/649-8423) is tuned to be used in conjunction with a one inch front stabilizer bar. Do not use a rear bar without the front; doing so will result in oversteer, which can be dangerous.

Using a larger front bar improves the steering precision, allowing removal of the stock steering dampener. The Fiero dampener reduces steering wheel kickback and vibration, but with a more effective front stabilizer bar, these problems are minimized so it is no longer needed. Removing the steering dampener also allows the steering wheel to turn faster for improved handling and overall control.


SPRINGS, SHOCKS AND OTHER STUFF

Spring rates on stock Fieros are correct for most purposes, but the problem is that most of these cars are too high off the ground. The best way to lower either the front or the rear is to cut the existing springs. By cutting half a coil off a spring and reforming the ends, you can lower your Fiero about one inch. Lowering the car reduces the available ride travel, but for most driving conditions, there is no loss of ride quality. With Koni adjustable shocks and struts, you can tune the ride quality in relation to to improved handling.

The brakes on an '88 Fiero are extremely good even on the racetrack. Unfortunately, it's not an easy conversion to mount the '88 brakes onto an '84-'87 Fiero. This means you will have to suffer with the barely effective brakes now on your car. I have tried many things to improve the stock brakes, but there doesn't seem to be an easy solution. Semi-metallic pads offer some advantage for a limited fix. **

As for chassis reinforcements, the basic Fiero structure is heavy and pretty stiff. I didn't notice any structural improvement after installing a rollcage for racing purposes, so I don't recommend this modification for street use.


GETTING A LINE ON ALIGNMENT

The camber adjustment on the front of a Fiero is accomplished by rotating the upper ball joints from front to the back. The ball joint is offset between the mounting bolts so you have your choice of two positions. For the best handling, you want the position that gives the most negative camber. Usually this isn't much, so you'll need to move the holes to get more. I don't recommend more then one degree of negative camber for street use.

For more caster, move the spacers between the upper control arm and the frame bracket, positioning the upper arm as far back in the car as possible. You only need one degree of positive caster to have good handling and you can usually obtain this by moving the spacers on the Fiero.

As for toe-in, it should be 1/16-inch at the front to provide good control and stability under braking. Rear toe-in is set by turning the rear tie rods. It's important to have between 1/16-inch and 1/8-inch toe-in at each rear wheel. Measure each rear wheel in relation to the rocker panels when determining rear toe-in. If you measure one wheel versus the other, you can end up with the proper toe-in, but the car will probably dog-track.

For setting rear camber, move the shock strut slotted hole where it connects to the rear upright. For street driving, you want at least one degree of negative camber; for racing, you need about two degrees.

NOTE: Many of the recommendations given above can be applied to any street driven Fiero, they are, however, somewhat severe for daily driving. Polyurethane instead of steel bushings would be more streetable although poly bushings can cause binding and lots of squeaks and groans from the suspension, and the 84-87 brakes can be converted to vented GA type parts. (This article did date from 1991) Remember, Herb Adams is a master of chassis engineering and following his lead will produce a far better handling Fiero, but possibly one which is less forgiving. You decide how far you want to go.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 03-15-2011).]

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zkhennings
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Report this Post03-15-2011 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsDirect Link to This Post
I see, I did not know the fiero had a steering dampener that was removeable if a bigger bar is installed.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post03-15-2011 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zkhennings:

I see, I did not know the fiero had a steering dampener that was removeable if a bigger bar is installed.


I had mine off but it is back on. The rough roads here in Ohio make for a lot of kickback.

Now if I was track driving on a smooth track I would leave it off. The bar helps but it does not remove all kickback.
Keep in mind Herbs set up is directed for high end performance and showroom stock racing. Some of his recomendations may be best left off of a daily driver.
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