Well, here goes.









This is the 2.8 engine that i verbally agreed to pay member Driven5 75 dollars for including engine, transmission, cradle, and basicaly the back stub of an 85 GT Fiero that was said to have 55,000 miles and ran good with a minor Alternator squeek. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/052398.html

I have put off paying for the whole setup for sometime on two reasons: 1, i am constantly low on money due to poor hours at work(when i worked). 2: at First glance the whole setup looked to be in great shape and sheod little miles. but at a closer look much was damaged and things that were wrong that shouldnt have been wrong at such a low mile motor.

well we spent some time with a borrowed Plasma cutter taking off the body steel as my Fiero has little rust and as we got more and more steel cut away it was found that the oil pan, oil pressure gauge, transmission pan and valve covers leaked their respective fluids enough to coat the motor and trans with a layer almost 1/4 inches thick in spots.

I thought well, he said it was sitting for some time (as was evident by the mouse and other rodent paraphenilia) and gaskets wear out with age and such.

fast forward to this past week. My Fiero sucessfully sells on Ebay and the new owner did not want the engine and trans so we decided to pull it apart, and offer the individual parts on here for a nice price to make some gas money and to finnaly pay off Driven5 so he stops flooding my inbox with PM's and leaves my sister alone with the constant voicemails.(she got my phone after i upgraded and changed numbers)

I have the motor down to the block, intake, heads and the front pulleys, everythign else sitting nearby in the process of being cleaned and ready for offers and i remembered that someone on here tkaes intakes and valve covers and powder coats them and resells them and i figured i would find that thread, offer them at a low price and make an easy sale for me, and the other member. get all of the 10mm bolts off, tap once with a rubber mallet and i found the above pics waiting for me.

We tried to rotate the crank next with a socket and breakerbar with the plugs removed and the engine BARELY makes a move and makes a slight grinding kinda squealing sound as it moves. Its from somewhere near the oil pan as we guess it. And my Brother in Law whom is a GM certified auto Tech that graduated from Universal Technical institue in the top 5 of his class says taht it is most likely the crank gone bad and the bearings are toast due to someone either overheating the engine and running it low on oil for too long.

(He is also knowledgable in the Fiero mechanicals but does not like them. Go figure)

So it is possible that Driven5 was misinformed that the engine and trans were in great working shape and such Further Missinformed Me and i advertised it as bing a working ready to drop in motor~ as i felt that it was foolishly.

So for that i Apologize to the entire forum of 19,000+ people that could have spent the few mins reading my threads in the mall on the engine and car and I further apologize for risking personal injury and the risk of a catastrophic failure and waste of resources/time/money spent on the setup and install.

Now i am lost: Should i pay Driven5 the money i owe him for the engine and parts not knowing if he tried to scam me and others? Or should i give him the boot and say sorry but no, you wont be getting a penny.

I have spent the last half an hour apologizing and explaining to my good friend Sean(Faaaaaaaq) whom was interested in purchasing the car and engine while his car was down with a bad Fuel pump, as i honestly had no idea that the engine was in such horrible shape and i misadvertised it as being a ready to go drop in and drive swap that he could pay an aditional small fee to have installed here(Which i was hanging back and forth doing anyway but why when the duke in my car hd only 30ish thousand on it and ran like a top?)

As i told him, I cant even Stomach the thought that i sold a part or Engine to someone that could get broken down stranded or possibly hurt by said part malfunctioning or worst case, blowing up in their face at first startup.
Even worse i think, what if the engine were to start on fire with a kid inside the car... I just typed and retyped that sentence 6 times debating if i should post that.


Im positive im going to get a few Negs from this thread due to my avoidance of Driven5 and paying him and i feel that if i do get any i have earned them one way or another. So if im still here next week i am going to count my blessings and find a way to give back to the Community.


Again, Im sorry PFF friends and readers for running this deception for so long and i thank you for taking the time to read this thread.

Signing off:

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[This message has been edited by Ramsespride (edited 11-15-2010).]

we did indeed have a lengthy conversation, focussed partly on how awful society seems to be in general nowadays. and nearly the first thing he said was an apology to me, for having offered to sell me something he advertised and very good, that in the end could have caused me harm.

No Negs from me! Just a few things and I am sure you know this by now - never take anyone's word as to the condition of something. You and you alone have to decide if what you are buying is in acceptable condition. Just by the pics you have posted of the outside of the motor tells me there is no way that motor is a low mileage (55k) car. I have personaaly parted out cars with 180k plus that were nowhere near that filthy. Before you post something up for sale, you need to make sure it is what you say it is. An easy quick attempt to spin her over and pulling a couple spark plugs will tell a big story. No harm no foul is my opinion - and you know what they say about opinions! If the party you bought from misinformed you, then you should try and work something out with him - out of the Forum. But in realiity, you bought it and you owe him! Don't stiff him - talk to him and work it out between the 2 of you. I would think that if you part it out - the cradle, suspension parts, pieces and parts off the motor, you should be able to recover the 75.00? Folks are always looking for brackets, bolts, valve covers, etc. Good Luck!

Pat

Have you spoken to Driven5? And if so what was the content of that conversation?

It's just 75 bucks. pay him to get him off your back. Get scrap metal value for the engine/whatever frame parts are there. Call the difference a lesson and move on. 75 bucks may seem like a lot to you now, but in the end, it is only money. We all get hosed sometimes.

I would contact Driven5 but all of my PMs go unanswered so either he is ignoring them or dosnt check his inbox. I would be more than willing to pay him about half of what we agreed upon as soon as i get it. I already posted the engine harness in the mall which is probably the best part from the motor. Its clean, still in the loom and i was OCD when it came to removing the connections so none got broken. Im selling that and the Fuel injection harness seperate from eachother and i actually dont know what i should sell them for as i dont even know what a engine swap harness goes for so i wouldnt sell it for more than that when the buyer could jsut buy a swap harness premade and do a swap insteead of a stock 2.8 like i wanted to do

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Do you still want that cradle? ive degreased it and it is really rust free.

Yes. We'll talk tomorrow.

Just to piggy back on Katatak.
You always take a risk buying used parts. Once you buy it, it is yours.
I've bought cars and parts that were WAY better than advertised.
I've also bought a few lemons(no pun Pat ). Hell, I bought a car of Katatak that puked the motor after a few miles. It was a fresh rebuild, but the oil pump let go and that was it.
I slapped in a new motor, and all is good. I didn't expect anything from him. Was I misled? No way. I'd do it again. I had more fun with that car and learned alot from it. I think in a weird way, it was good that it happened! We still swap parts and cars regularly. He's one of the most honest members on the forum. If you break down, he usually is the first one that comes running!
Come to think of it, the car he got from me blew up also. Now we both have V-8's
Things happen. It's part of the game.
I've been burned on other deals in the past. Just keep on truckin. Life is too short to pout.

If the seller intentionally misled you, then I think it is a problem. I would try to work something out privately. If he is a stand up guy, you should be fine.
Give them the opportunity to make it right. You might be surprised....

(No negs from me either, just giving my opinion.)

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88 GT "The Stray" 4.9L
86 GT 2.8L 4 speed
07 Solstice GXP 2.0L turbo
08 GMC Sierra 3500 Duramax Dually.
05 Tahoe on 20's (Kid hauler)

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: i'm sure i could fly a plane no problem.

Not to sound like an echo, but they're right. pay him the $75 and make a mental note to make double sure next time you are getting what is advertised. We've all been shafted one way or another similarly, it's all about how you handle it that counts. Get in touch with Driver5 and let him know your thoughts. Maybe he will be a nice guy and cut you a break

I don't think you will get any negs from this thread. Instead of attacking the seller and labeling it "(person) is a crook! Stay away!", you came out with an apology and were respectful. It's refreshing, actually.

Goodluck!

Dave

Edit: Wooo! That caaaan't be a 55k engine. Both mine had 150k when I pulled them and they didn't look half as gunked up!
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BAZOOKAFIERO's Junk

"By now you can clearly tell Operation Poprocks 1 or originally Poprock, has failed, and due to time shortage we shall just attach a 2 behind Poprocks since, ahum, we all thought Operation Poprocks was fail proof and yet again humanity is on the brink of insanity."

[This message has been edited by BazookaFiero (edited 11-16-2010).]

anyone got the Cliff-notes on that?

ok playing the devils advocate.....you paid $75 for all that stuff and are suprised with the outcome??
for $75 bucks a blind man could see that commin'.
i do however believe that your PO got the first inital Rip.....maybe he was decieved??

that is just my .02 cents.

good luck....and remember this, what would you want him to do if he was in your situation?? again, just a humble statement
again good luck,

Daniel

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 11-16-2010).]

You don't need an old guy's affirmation of what other's have said but---you have just learned a lesson for $75 that others like me paid a lot more to learn.

I bought a 3800SC/4t65eHD for $800 and the tranny is bad. I bought another tranny and coupled with installation, it will cost me more than it would have cost to have bought a known good one. Luckily, the guy wasn't lying about the engine.

I have been in your shoes with little or no income so I can empathize with your situation.

id like to see driven 5's comments on this, i would go ahead and sell what you got..when you sell it all, give dr5 his 75 bucks and you keep the rest,, its possible that engine has 55k, a hard 55k, one that never seen an oil change,ever, if that motor came out of my sisters car at 55k thats about what hers would look like....., just do what you need to do in order for you to be able to sleep at nite, thats all anyone could ask,,,non of our opinions matter at all........

Simple solution, Pay him $75 or return it. If you feel that you were misled then return it. Or just clean it up and sell the parts, make your $75 and PAY him his $75. Seriously, why be upset with him or have him upset with you over $75? I read the ad and he said it drove onto the trailer but that doesn’t mean it is a "good" reliable engine, as you can see. Have you ever purchased a used car? "No Warranties" AS IS, buy at you own risk. Be the bigger person and you will be rewarded with peace of mind. I hope you work it out for goodness sake and a “+” from me for your effort to try and do the right thing.

All of this is opinion of course...you made a deal for an as is used engine. Even if it turns out to be a paperweight you still owe him the cash. Having said that, if he knew it was toast he should have told you. He might not have known. One can never tell. He should not, however, contact anyone other than you. Doing so could be construed as harassment and that individual can press charges at a local constabulary. Pay the man the 75 dollars and be very happy you got out of a mistake for so little money. Lessons learned.

The phrase Caveat Emptor comes to mind. Buyer Beware.

You bought it for an agreed upon price. It's yours, pay up.

You can bad mouth the seller all you want for false advertising, selling a bad product or, just outright lying, that's your choice. I wasn't privy to the negoiations and don't know what was said. But, you bought it. Pay Up.

Ron

$75 =deal
at least for a complete cradle and engine. You could make up that in selling parts.

I have only read this thread and it sounds like you are not sure whether he deceived you or was deceived himself. If he never claimed to have run it himself and was only passing this information to you second hand I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt.
He may have been screwed first, and now is having his reputation ruined.

The fact of the matter is you agreed to pay the amount. and from what i was taught growing up if you agree to something you do it. yes you got burned but the fact is you agreed and your word is your bond. i say you pay the man and consider it a lesson learned. i have had many of these and i have learned in the process. yes it sucks but so does life a lot of times.

You know? $75 for an old engine and cradle isn't such a bad deal. You could probably get your money back just selling the cradle alone. That engine looks like a mess right now, but a complete tear down, clean up and rebuild would yield a pretty nice motor. I'm sure somebody would pay for a core engine they can rebuild and sell to somebody restoring their Fiero for collector status.

It's very professional of you to take the disappointment emotion out of this and ask advice from others. Lesson learned and well done.

OMG that is one flity engine. But then it come with lots of free oil and grease.

Well im going to make a thread in the Mall later with all the parts i managed to salvage off of the motor. Cradle is spoken for and a few misc parts are aswell but i will post up pics of everything with a corresponding number that each acan be refered to as. I figure that way Driven5 gets paid(i cant even remember what his real name is) and i get some cash in my pocket for finances.

Always something to be said for manning up and apologizing.

quote Originally posted by Ramsespride: Well im going to make a thread in the Mall later with all the parts i managed to salvage off of the motor. Cradle is spoken for and a few misc parts are aswell but i will post up pics of everything with a corresponding number that each acan be refered to as. I figure that way Driven5 gets paid(i cant even remember what his real name is) and i get some cash in my pocket for finances.

How did you manage to aquire the parts without paying upfront?

quote Originally posted by nosrac: How did you manage to aquire the parts without paying upfront?

I was having rouble coming up with the money as i had to keep putting more and more into my Jeep jsut to get it to stay running long enough to get me TO work. He i would guess got sick of waiting and brought it over one night

I agree with most, you bought a used engine trans, and drive train that he clearly stated in his ad was going to be recycled. Admittedly, that's the worst coating of sludge I've ever seen, but as a buyer, it's also your job to check out what you're buying(if you'd have looked in the oil fill, you'd have seen the sludge). Since you only paid $75( which you haven't done yet-actually you haven't even kept your end of the deal and your complaining about the other guy????) and not an outrageous amount, sell the parts, pay him off and be more careful in the future.

Listen to the others. There's a lot you can learn from this whole experience.
-Don't agree to buy something unless you can completely afford it/have the money.
-Don't buy anything unless you know exactly what kid if shape it is in. (a red flag should've gone up when he said $75 for all of those parts)
-And finally, don't give or ship anything to someone unless you have gotten theonry from them.

Live and learn!

You can get $75 parting it out or just rebuild it. To add on to everyone else, if he sold you the deed to the Brooklyn bridge for a buck, you owe him a buck, unless you report me to the authorities for fraud! but he may not have known the condition.

[This message has been edited by FuryArrow (edited 11-17-2010).]

What everyone else said, pay the $75 and man up. My bet is D5 got burned from the PO.

bet that smells nice btw... had a 2.8 just like that with a broken rod.

Pay

Grandma used to say if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Words to live by....

This is the dumbest posting ever, I mean come on. You had this engine for a year, the guy delivered it, you are selling parts off an engine that techically isn't yours, and you are moaning about it being junk and being ripped off. Guess what? You haven't even paid for it yet, WTF.

Not to be a broken record but…. You agreed to buy the motor and you took possession. It’s yours. Now is not the time to ask questions about should I get this? Sorry but it’s too late, you need to pay for it.

Now let me say that I speak from experience. There was an add on here, I replied and then purchased. I got it quick and great!…but no. it was a piece of crap. But I was only mad at MYSELF for not asking the right questions before paying. I said “I’ll take it” without asking questions so I did "take it".... and so must you.

Chalk it up to a valuable lesson learned that only cost $75 and if you part it out you’ll probably come out ahead… and wiser for the experience.

So this is finally getting settled--that's good.
That's probably the least expensive lesson/experience you will get in life.
And, it's not like he hasn't tried over the last few weeks to get you to talk to him about it--he's left you messages in several different threads. Your name and word are worth $75--pay him and write it off----------things have a way of working themselves out----next thing you buy for a little $ may turn out to be worth 10X what you paid for it.

(I need to go dig that bucket of solvent out of the back of my shed to see if that 'good' aluminum clutch slave cylinder I paid for and bought from someone else back in 2005 ever freed up)

The other side of the story:

I needed a cheap Fiero for a project (link) that I did not need the drivetrain from, and found a perfect candidate locally. Thus things like it having sat for a number of years was of no real concern to me, and actually only worked in favor of my stringent budget for this project. The fact that it ran at all, to be able to get on and off the trailer, was simply a bonus in my book. This meant that it might at least be of some marginal value to a Fiero enthusiast somewhere. There were no promises, pretenses, or implications of condition given to me by the previous seller beyond starting it, especially considering its time spent being completely neglected. As a seller, I too made none other than when we did run it briefly, it sounded "surprisingly good" with the exception of what sounded like the alternator squealing...And that was 100% the truth, as old forum member nocones could easily attest. After "removing" the engine (back half of the car) Ramsespride came over to look at it. I understand that we may each have differing recollections of the series of events after this, but this is mine as honest and truthfully as I know it. At this time, the dash (and thus the odometer) had already been removed from the car as was in another location from the engine. I told him that I remembered seeing the numbers 38k on it, but could not recall if it was 38k or 138k. I recall Ramsesppride suggesting it more likely to be 38k than 138k due to the condition of the wiring harness and a few other things. I remember this because I was somewhat surprised because in my thoughts the cancer in some of the panels on the rear section, and overall dirty condition, had me assuming it more likely to be 138k...But I figured he was more knowledgeable about Fieros than me. Either way, I only wanted to be able to get a little more than I thought a scrap metal yard would give me for it, as well as to let a local Fiero enthusiast get any parts they might need from it and part out anything they didn't want to keep. So if he was ok with that, so was I. He even discussed with me that it would need to be rebuilt anyways. So it never even crossed my mind that, regardless of what was inside of the mystery box, it was even possible that anything was being misrepresented. If somehow anything I did caused this, even though I genuinely don't see how, I do sincerely apologize.

For a while we went back and forth trying to find a time to meet up that he would be able to have the funds available to pay me and I could drop it off. When nocones had the availability to haul the engine over there for me, I decided that Ramsespride seemed like an upstanding guy and being an active member in the local Fiero community I figured that he would have all the more reason to stand behind his word that he would pay me...Meanwhile my better half warned me that this was against her better judgment. For the first month or so I was in no hurry, as other issues in life kept me too busy to even push for the payment, as I was certain that when the funds were available Ramsespride would repay me. Eventually I decided I would need to put more effort into getting ahold of him directly and taking the initiative to set up a time to meet with him to pay me. This fell through a number of time for various availability issues on either one of our ends. Whenever I would PM him about meeting he would have me call him. So I eventually stopped bothering with PM's and turned to calling the number that was given to me to contact him, and leave a message. I did this multiple times a week for about a month and a half. Never once was the phone answered, and never once was a call returned. At this point while I was starting to get mildly annoyed, I still believed that he would eventually follow through, so all of my phone calls did not accuse, blame, or threaten in any way shape or form. Eventually becoming frustrated, I decided to check the forum (which I don't often frequent) to see if I could get ahold of him here. First I attempted to PM him, but received a message that read something along the lines of "We're sorry, but this forum member does not wish to be contacted by you" when I would try to send it. This is when the red flags really started to pop up in my head. So I decided to search the forum to see what I could find. Imagine my surprise when I found multiple threads in "The Mall" looking to sell his Fiero and (MY) parts. So I posted, in the least threatening and accusational tone that I could, trying to get him to contact me. When that didn't work, I attempted the same in the "Central Wisconsin" thread that I knew he was active in. When he didn't respond to my first attempt to contact him there, I tried again...To the same results. At this point I realized that he more than likely had me on his "ignore" list, and had absolutely no way to get in contact with him anymore. I even went so far as to verify with local Fiero club members that the phone number I was using is the same number that they use to contact him as well, which it is/was. So my only resort was to continue posting (without going into details) in his for sale posts. I continued attempting to PM him as well, with the same message always being returned...Until just recently. Interestingly enough it was just after he sold his Fiero on Ebay, as I tried to contact him again (always attempting through PM first on the forum rather than going public) assuming he should finally have the funds to be able to pay me, and the PM actually said it was sent through to him. I even posted in his one of his for sale threads simply stating that he had a PM from me. Through all of this I did not receive one single attempt from him to contact me since his last returned PM to me on Sept 2...So I was really surprised to find this thread now!

I was eventually told by one of the forum members that he was having some various issues in life. Sadly, if this was his reason for avoiding me so fiercely, it was only to his detriment. I too have been through tough times, and am very sympathetic to the concerns of people facing similar challenges. Had he simply tried to work with me and keep in contact with me, so that I did not feel my trust was being taken advantage of, I would have been more than willing to work with him to delay payment or something. All I've really wanted this whole time, was to be kept in contact and in the loop. But instead I was constantly avoided. I actually even received a rather demeaning PM (apparently it's people like me that give Fiero enthusiasts everywhere a bad name) from somebody that claimed to have had a long conversation with him after buying the transmission from him for $40...More than half of what Ramsespride agreed to pay for the whole back half of the car from me, even though he never actually tried discussing his concerns with me directly. So I see no reason that with parting out the rest of it that he shouldn't at least be able to come close enough to breaking even to be able to pay me without regret, if not even turn a small profit.

But ultimately if it's going to be this big of a deal to keep your promises, just finally admit to me that you aren't going to pay me back to at least give me some closure on the issue...And I'll let the whole thing go. My wife has already chalked it up to a $75 lesson that she's never going to let me forget, nor will she let me trust anybody in the car world at their word again, and I'll finally be able to do the same. On the other hand, feel free to return any of my countless attempts to contact you directly and let me know when and where we can meet to put this whole thing behind us.

I know there was more I had to say on the issue, and there were also some statements in this thread that I was going to reply to...But it's way later than I planned to stay up writing this already, and I need to get up early for work in the morning. So I'll just leave it at this for now, spelling/grammatical errors and all.

[This message has been edited by Driven5 (edited 11-24-2010).]

:-( Fail. I would pay half of the remaining balance and call it a day. Everyone stays happy... somewhat...

Driven gets a + for me for allowing someone to take an engine on his word that he will pay. Ramsespride, you need to man up and pay the guy for a product you inspected (and if you didn't it's your own damn fault), took and gave your word to pay for!

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Red 86GT 4 Speed "MrDrift"

i agree with driven5....but both parties have there points...but i think everyone is missing a huge point! Its a 75 dollar motor! If i knew i had a really good running motor (wouldnt of taken 2 minutes to start that motor up without the alt. belt on) i would be asking a little more than 75 dollars, shame on the buyer here, it sounds a little good to be true! But, on the other hand, the seller let it out of his garage...now the buyer could claim he paid him cash deal no paperwork! My biggest point, is its 75 bucks, the buyer got a junk motor, and the seller is out of 75 bucks and has extra room in the garage! just my .02 -strike

I want 75 dollars for reading this.