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3800sc v's 350 v8 cost? I have both engines! by bry2an
Started on: 06-08-2010 08:31 PM
Replies: 19
Last post by: bry2an on 06-13-2010 12:59 PM
bry2an
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Report this Post06-08-2010 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post
Hey All, I have a question for all you 3800 and v8 guys. Don't let this turn into a flame please.

Ok I just bought a 88 gt and a 1999 grand prix gtp. I was going to go with the 3800sc swap but now i'm thinking v8. I also own a 80 z28 that I toy around with. My z28 has ran a best of 11.5@126mph. I just built it last year. So here's the question??????????

To install the v8 I need archie kit--------$3200 right?
To install the 3800 i need to buy??? Need help on this one!

I would have to buy all pieces needed for both swaps so I'm thinking it going to cost me the same by the time all is said and done.

I traded my ps3 for the gtp and runs perfect but the tranny is blown and it has no rocker panels left lol. My GT is 5 speed and I would love to keep it Standard.

I have seen alot of videos on you tube of the 3800 and I'm blown away how well they work, however I'm thinking how good my fiero will work with my 350? I understand the 3800 is WAY better on fuel as the 350 get about 12 mpg lol. I will not drive it alot so Not to worried about gas, I also wont race the car every weekend either. The rumble of the v8 is hard to beat and on the other hand the supercharger wine is awsome as well.

I'd like to keep this straight forward with no flames. Options and comments welcome!

Thanks everyone!
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Hockaday
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Report this Post06-08-2010 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
decide on what you want and go with it imo.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post06-08-2010 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
My V8 doesn't get 12, more like 9
I purchase my kit used, paid $1000 for it. Probably cost another $500 in new parts to move the kit to my GT. I love the 5 speed but first gear is gone in a blink, you can start in second but it will bog a little if you don't keep the RPMs up. If you can do the work yourself you can save money.

If I had the choice between the two engines and money wasn't an issue I would probably go with the 3800, I think it fits the car better. But the V8 is a blast and I catch people by surprise all the time. Keep a nice quiet exhaust on it and you will leave a lot of people with their mouth hanging open. But you better start with a good solid car, the tq of the V8 will put a strain on the car.
Remember anything you can do to the 3800 to make power you can do to the V8 and make more power. Its just a matter of displacement.

Either way you will love the feel of a powerful engine in a Fiero.
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pontiackid86
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Report this Post06-08-2010 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
3800. Its going to be hard getting a manual trans to mate up to it and take ther 350's power unless you go with the G6 6 speed trans. Than agaain i have heard story's about the getrag and 3800's as well. Not top mention the 3800 is one solid motor.

And also.. why ruin a good camaro

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 06-08-2010).]

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HausFiero
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Report this Post06-08-2010 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HausFieroSend a Private Message to HausFieroDirect Link to This Post
Man, I wish I had your problem.
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bry2an
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Report this Post06-08-2010 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post
The camaro will be a big block at the end of the summer. the camaro has been my pride and joy for 20 years. It was the first car i bought when i was 16,(payed a whole 900 for it and it needed 4 tires,motor and 1 ttop glass as one blew off on the highway lol.) I was going to sell the 350 to fund the 3800 swap. I can sell the gtp for 1000 right now.

I'm leaning toward the 3800. Can someone tell me what I need to buy for the 3800?
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starlightcoupe
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Report this Post06-08-2010 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for starlightcoupeSend a Private Message to starlightcoupeDirect Link to This Post
I was lucky to meet Mike Gonzalez and he essentially did everything for my swap. He gave me a list of things I needed to put the 3800SC into my '84 Notchie. I bought a good engine and a defective transmission(don't trust someone who says, "It ran when I parked it")already mounted on a Fiero cradle for $800. The Notchie was in a field in southern Colorado and I bought it for $250. Mike gave me this list of things to do and to buy:

------3800 swap parts list------
Wiring Harnesses (both Fiero and Motor)
Reprogrammed PCM--$100 Darth Fiero
Proper Oil filter adapter or filter relocation kit--mine didn't need it
Fuel pump EP376--$140 from Pep Boys
Fiero Oil pressure sender--$13 from NAPA
Air intake coupler and tube/filter ??--$50 for tube and $40 for K&N filter
Muffler/Exhaust/Tailpipes--$220 from Summit. Mike fabricated the exhaust system
Spark plugs/wires--I got iridium plugs and stock, el cheapo wires from NAPA--cost of about $70
Fluids
Belts--Gates belts(American made) cost $93
Ribbed tensioner pulley--$35
A/C delete pulley, or Fiero to 3800 A/C hoses if retaining A/C $35
In Line coolant fill point, or parts to “T” off heater lines
Coolant hoses--$35 at NAPA
4’ each 5/16 and 3/8 fuel injection hose--EXPENSIVE!!!! but don't remember the cost
Fuel injection clamps--$20 pieces of Chinese made junk
8’ heater hose--about $10
Speedo buffer circuit parts (4T65E-HD only)--free. I had parts on hand


-----Modifications/Fabrication-----
Modify throttle bracket on V6 Fiero, L4 works as is--wasn't needed
Modify/reroute vacuum lines, remove BBV lock closed
Modify heater hose connections--Mike did this
Trans cooler lines/cooler building and mounting on manual to auto swap
Build speedo buffer for auto

While car was at Mikes, I put new brake pads, rear calipers, shocks and a lot of other needed things because the car had been sitting in a field for 11 years. Mike did a ton of work above and beyond the conversion but he is a great guy and said he was bored and likes Fieros. He made the harness before the conversion so you can plan on another $250-$500 for a harness.

I like the car a lot. I never had a Fiero before this one and other than the slipping tranny and messed up TCC, I like it a lot. I don't get the high mileage others get but it is respectable; it is in the range of 25-27mpg. The car really accelerates well. EDIT: Maybe that explains my gas mileage problem.

I wanted a V8 but now that I have the 3800, I am convinced that this was the best decision.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by starlightcoupe (edited 06-08-2010).]

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Hockaday
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Report this Post06-08-2010 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
v8 is only way to go imho as far as a sbc vs v8 that is another decision and topic. if you have a muscle car imo i'd go with a dohc v8 or something for more of an exotic feel but again, diff discusion. decide what you want to do engine wise and go from there, forget you hae those engines for the moment imho.
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Report this Post06-09-2010 02:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Here's my 2 cents worth. First off to answer your original question, since you already have both motor, your cheapest route will be the 3800 SC. You "big" ticket items will be flywheel/clutch/pressure plate, wiring harness - unless you build it yourself, Exhaust and mounts if you buy them - you can do them cheap but you have to gather some junk yard parts and fab some parts. I am by no means a 3800 SC expert but here's how I see it:

I'm thinking the V8 will cost a minimum of 2300.00 if you go with Archies econo kit and maybe 1000.00 for the 3800 SC. Maybe more.

I have a 86 Coupe with a 350/4spd - I really like it - it's a fun car but it needs a lot more work to make it a daily driver.

I have an 88 Coupe with a 4.9 V8 Caddy with auto - just got it fnished but so far, it's a blast and my son is driving it everyday for work and school - getting 23/24 around town. Complete swap was 1500.00!

Right now we are getting a 2003 3800 SC mounted to an 88 cradle and will be stuffing it in an 88GT. So far, the swap is pretty straight forward. It's looking like around 1000.00 not including the motor - it may end up less. Exhaust is always a crap shoot.

There are many ways to save money - cut costs no matter what the swap. Depends on how much time and effort you are willing to put into it. For the 4.9 swap, we were in a hurry so we bought a wiring harness. It was half the cost of the swap! For the 3800, we will attempt to do the wiring ourselves and we are scrounging up junk yard parts for mounts and pieces / parts. Ok, so that was more like 50 cents worth..... Good luck!

Pat
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California Kid
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Report this Post06-09-2010 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidDirect Link to This Post
I'd say either swap will create a very enjoyable car, the choice really boils down to "what will make me happy", and only you can answer that question.

I purchased my modified '88 GT 350 L98 w/modified suspension back in '93, since that time the car has undergone quite a few improvement changes. It was not a conservative project, more of I know what " I " want type of thing, a car that really turns the heads on onlookers. Here's an example, the guys from this car club (in link below) were blown away by my GT, compliments plenty, and lots of camera's clicking (these pictures were taken by a member, before I took my car into the pit area):

http://www.saac-mcr.com/pa/.../2010drivers/dricci/

My '88 GT has never failed to put a smile on my face, it costs some to maintain it, but so would any other car at the same performance level.

Everything depends on what you want to get out of the car.

------------------

Car History: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025670.html

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-09-2010 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Right now we are getting a 2003 3800 SC mounted to an 88 cradle and will be stuffing it in an 88GT. So far, the swap is pretty straight forward. It's looking like around 1000.00 not including the motor - it may end up less. Exhaust is always a crap shoot.


If you are mildly handy with some mild fabrication tools (drill press, sawzall) you can get out the door for next to no money with the 3800 swap. If you buy the "archie kit" type parts for the 3800, you will probably have a hard time spending even $1000.

As far as power / transmission issues, the V8 is not going to be any harder on the trans, it will probably be mean to the clutch though. a 126mph camaro would suggest you are making plenty of power... which for the "fiero swap novice" would probably present more headaches and hassle than the average auto enthusiast is ready to tackle. The V8 is probably better left in the camaro IMO... (I wouldnt even consider it at least lol)

The 3800 can be setup to make some good power, and that 126mph will look slow if you ever wanted to put a $500 turbo setup on the 3800.
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bry2an
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Report this Post06-09-2010 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post
The only real problem I have is where I live. I/we have no way to do a proper tune for the 3800. I used the search button and everyone says they need a good tune?? Down here we cant tune a lawnmower lol. My heart is set on the 3800 but the v8 ia a carb set up and I can work magic on my holly carb.

(CALKID) It is your car that has me wanting the v8. Ive seen everything on pennocks about your car. The only problem I see with your car and this is a big problem..........Its not in my driveway! lol kidding aside your car is unreal , and very tasetfully done!

I'm not a nob around cars buy anymean but never really had a chance to play with fuelinjection, and never tried to make a harness. I don't have a welder so I will need to buy as much as I can.

Just for the record I don't have an endless bank account, however I don't mind spending alittle money on my hobbies.

Another thing I forgot about the v8, I had to put in a 8'' converter to make it work ok. It doesn't make power until 3800rpm right up to 7600rpm. The car brake stalls at 4200rpm.
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Report this Post06-09-2010 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the compliment !

Good luck to you on your project !
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Report this Post06-09-2010 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mera7Click Here to Email mera7Send a Private Message to mera7Direct Link to This Post
it sounds like you are doing your homework. that is a good thing. either engine will make a nice car. i also like calikids car. best of luck and happy motoring. mike in oklahoma
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bry2an
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Report this Post06-09-2010 05:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post
i'm going to do some more thinking before i do any thing. If I was to go auto with a v8 which tranny would be best? I can always change my cam and go to a duel plan intake!
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bry2an
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Report this Post06-09-2010 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post

bry2an

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Member since May 2005
I knew I was forgetting to ask something? Does anyone know a place who sells a aftermarket craddle? The was a place years ago but they went out of business
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-09-2010 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
The 3800 tuning thing is extremely simple. You can basically do it for free yourself (with little to no computer knowledge) if you are willing to take some time to do some simple things (many people on the internet here will help you do the tuning part). Most of the time the "tune" part is more people complaing and doing things "the way they want" more so than anything else.
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bry2an
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Report this Post06-09-2010 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post
Ok I think i'm going with the 3800. I just watched purpleregans video and his cae is sweet! I got a phone call tonight from my buddy and he wants the 350. So I can sell it and rebuild the 3800 to a bunch of goodies.

i'm sure i;m going to have a million questions. i won't be starting this until the end of summer. So i'll start looking and collection parts now.
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Report this Post06-13-2010 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thismanyfierosClick Here to Email thismanyfierosSend a Private Message to thismanyfierosDirect Link to This Post
geeze bryan is brad not running double z anymore...i know for a fact he has done a few 3800 conversions into cavaliers...im sure he can tune too..
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bry2an
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Report this Post06-13-2010 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bry2anClick Here to Email bry2anSend a Private Message to bry2anDirect Link to This Post
Ya brad is still at double z but his tech who was doing the swaps quit! Theres another shop that just opened but I dont get along with the owner, He has a z24 the was built at brads shop and he just posted his numbers on his 3800 turbo. 568hp on the motor. I'm sure he could tune it but I cant lower myself to go to him. I was talking to brad and he thinks he can do it.
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