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Gas Turbine Fiero? by shawnk
Started on: 05-17-2010 07:02 PM
Replies: 45
Last post by: kwagner on 05-19-2010 11:19 AM
shawnk
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
So i have been out of the fiero loop for about 6 months now and am getting the itch to get another one. I have had this idea for a while now and was thinking how i could hake it work. JET ENGINES! well gas turbine to be specific. i have seen all the jet cars but they use the thrust for forward motion and are drag only cars, i want something that is an actual car and i can drive (i dont care about comfort) i waslooking into the turbine from helicopters. THese use the thrust from the engine to spin a shaft like a helicopter rotor. Size wise they are about the same as a V8 and weight between 150-250 pounds. Power wise they can push out 300-700hp. The fiero is pretty well set up to handle a motor like this but what i need to figure out is power delivery. What kind of transmission or gear systems could be used or made to put the power to the wheels. ive seen the eco jet that GM built for jay leno that operates on the same idea that i am trying to work out. but not being best friends with jay i cant look under the car lol. any ideas? i know this forum has many great minds that could help!

Shawn


here are a few of the rolls royce engines
http://www.hmfriends.org.uk/allison250.htm
http://www.atlasaviation.co...250model/250-b17.htm

this ones on ebay and has a forward neutral and revers gearbox but its 18,000 dollars
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...&hash=item2306a80065
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87antuzzi
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
have deep pockets. Good luck.
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
haha the engines actually cost about the same as a crate GM that 18,000 ebay one is just a bit high lol it has like one bid i think

edit--no bids lol

[This message has been edited by shawnk (edited 05-17-2010).]

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87antuzzi
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
You will have to do a lot more work than "swap" a engine in. Id start with a tube frame chassis lol.
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shawnk
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
haha well ys i was planing on re-enforcing its just a general question i wasnt trying to get into the deep parts of the while car at the moment
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87antuzzi
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
I say go for it. I will gladly drive 2 hours to lend ya a hand .
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shawnk
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87antuzzi:

I say go for it. I will gladly drive 2 hours to lend ya a hand .


i will definatly keep that in mind. i found a few turbines on ebay with only a few thousand hours on them for crate engine prices. unless i get the 747 engine thats there lol im sure that will move a fiero

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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhileroClick Here to Email PhileroSend a Private Message to PhileroDirect Link to This Post
Well, I would have no idea where to begin with this... but at least you could legitimately get the license plate holder that says "I don't drive fast, I fly low!"

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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
It's doable, but if you have to ask, then you aren't able to do it. No offense intended, but that's just the reality.
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shawnk
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Report this Post05-17-2010 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

It's doable, but if you have to ask, then you aren't able to do it. No offense intended, but that's just the reality.


well offense taken cuz you have to ask questions to learn. do you know how to do it pmbrunelle? if not then why post and be an ass then say "no offense"

oh and i mean no offense

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Report this Post05-17-2010 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thumper_64735Click Here to Email thumper_64735Send a Private Message to thumper_64735Direct Link to This Post
I know that you would have to get some sort of gear reduction transmission, and I doubt if you would be able to have gears to shift through. I would say that some sort of slip clutch for when you come up to stops, and then as far as the "transmission" goes it would be some sort of gear reduction set up with a single drive. you would have to control your speed by the amount of fuel/power your putting through the engine. I have thought of this myself. Keep and eye on the GSA auctions for used AGPU's.(Axillary Ground Power Units) They use a small turbine that puts out roughly 100-150 shaft HP, but they turn at around 20,000 RPM if I remember correctly. Also, you need to keep in mind you need a large intake area, and a way to muffle the noise from the exhaust. Study, read any publications you can on your chosen engine (google for military pubs, you can find many on line) and go for it. I want a ride once ya get it done.
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Report this Post05-17-2010 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
well intake wise depending on final engine orientation i was thinking if i could mount it transverse i would just cut a large scoop in the side behind one of the doors where the current scoops are or mount a noise baffle could be installed on the exhaust area which if you look at the first link i posted to the RR allison 250 the vents are on top. i may have room under the deck and to vent the gases either a large reverse scoop or just the exhaust ports poking out the deck lid

[This message has been edited by shawnk (edited 05-17-2010).]

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Report this Post05-17-2010 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post

shawnk

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they did it!
http://www.marineturbine.com/motorcycles.asp

and its the same engine im looking at so size isnt an issue......................omg idea!! I could make the fiero chain driven lol its a three way hybrid car with jet engine and a motorcycle chain drive

[This message has been edited by shawnk (edited 05-17-2010).]

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Report this Post05-17-2010 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
You're not going to learn how to do a project like this from asking questions on an online forum. Even if the forum was only made up of people who know everything such as Will, you still have to do the bulk of the work and piece together the information on your own, which you really can't do without a university education in engineering.

Can you figure out how thick a driveshaft has to be for a certain amount of torque? Do you know if it will resonate and whip out of control?

I don't know how to do it - all I have is Grade 11 under my belt. Doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade.

Forums are only good if you have specific questions, such as:
"What's a good source to buy XXXX gears?"

For your power goals, a V8 should fit the bill, and likely the project will be completed should you choose to go this route.
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shawnk
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Report this Post05-17-2010 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

You're not going to learn how to do a project like this from asking questions on an online forum. Even if the forum was only made up of people who know everything such as Will, you still have to do the bulk of the work and piece together the information on your own, which you really can't do without a university education in engineering.

Can you figure out how thick a driveshaft has to be for a certain amount of torque? Do you know if it will resonate and whip out of control?

I don't know how to do it - all I have is Grade 11 under my belt. Doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade.

Forums are only good if you have specific questions, such as:
"What's a good source to buy XXXX gears?"

For your power goals, a V8 should fit the bill, and likely the project will be completed should you choose to go this route.


its not about power its an idea. if it was about the power id just take the motor out of my vette and get a new one for her so thats not the point here. some of the people on this site do have engineering degrees and you underestimate how asking questions can help you learn a lot and point you to places you need to go. you can go ask your gear sourcing questions and get some cheap Chinese gears to break while i attempt a project that may or may not work i dont see how you have the desire to tell someone they cant to something. if i want my drive shaft to whip out of control thats my right and obviously if i was to build this it would be to aircraft grade tolerances im not an idiot. so do me a favor and dont post on here again.
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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhileroClick Here to Email PhileroSend a Private Message to PhileroDirect Link to This Post
I have to admit, when I first read this post, I thought to myself, "Self I thought... another pipe dream". But then I caught myself and thought back to the time when I posted about my idea of the turbo propane setup I wanted (and am still working on). My post on the dream gave me a lot of feedback. Not all of it was positive, but I kept my mind open to those that had constructive critism. I did my best to disregard those that had nothing construtive to say... those that didn't think before they put their fingers on the keyboard and bashed the idea I had, were in a bad mood that day, or just had a notion to believe that I would not follow through.

There is no harm in asking opinions regarding something as unique as what your are curious about. The harm comes when someone states that YOU can't do it. Don't let that get you down. If there is a will, there is a way. It may take years to reach the final outcome (trust me, I know this!!! I too don't have deep pockets!), but who knows? Either way, as I see it, just the question being asked may spin someone else's cogs and give them an idea!

BTW, why has nobody ventured on the Dihydral synchro-helix doors rather than the archaic Lambo door system? Any takers?
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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JackdanielsSend a Private Message to JackdanielsDirect Link to This Post
Jay Leno as well as many others own a jet powered motorcycle. They run very clean, sound awesome, and have multiple gears and a clutch. I don't see why you couldn't do it to a car. Listen how awesome this clip sounds:
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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 17CarSend a Private Message to 17CarDirect Link to This Post
That would be one awesome swap and definately one of a kind. Good luck on it!
Arnt some modern tanks driven by turbines? Any millitary guys know?
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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelDirect Link to This Post
Hello
Being an EX-aeronautics tech I hate to do this but I gotta....

Just in parts and developement you are looking at 15 -25K
The turbine is incomplete you will have to buy ALOT of control equipement + turbine = 18K plus I calculate 25K for the acessories
The fiero will have to be supermoded this is NOT a bolt on = fiero plus mod 5 - 10k
Permits and inspections to put this item on the road a 2 - 3K

well I guess if ya have 70K - 90K for a 425 -700 hp fiero I would suggest call Archie he'll have one with more HP for alot less

My 2 cents

Dan. Ex-Crew Chief
NordTech AeroSpace, Quebec

------------------


http://www.blackwidowfiero.com

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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
It all depends on how deep your pockets are but i dont see why it couldent be done. You might have a better chance of finding a transmission to handel that power if you got for a longetutial swap with the engine in the front of the car use the gas tank tunnel for the driveshaft and use a rear diff and relocate a fuel cell for it (remember to keep the fuel cell away from the engine id say in place of the trunk. Again deep pockets but no reason it cant be done.
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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JackdanielsSend a Private Message to JackdanielsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Danyel:

Hello
Being an EX-aeronautics tech I hate to do this but I gotta....

Just in parts and developement you are looking at 15 -25K
The turbine is incomplete you will have to buy ALOT of control equipement + turbine = 18K plus I calculate 25K for the acessories
The fiero will have to be supermoded this is NOT a bolt on = fiero plus mod 5 - 10k
Permits and inspections to put this item on the road a 2 - 3K

well I guess if ya have 70K - 90K for a 425 -700 hp fiero I would suggest call Archie he'll have one with more HP for alot less

My 2 cents

Dan. Ex-Crew Chief
NordTech AeroSpace, Quebec




The video I posted shows one of the jet bikes. I believe they start at $125,000 for the basic model so I here you about the cost and research.
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Report this Post05-17-2010 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhileroClick Here to Email PhileroSend a Private Message to PhileroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 17Car:

That would be one awesome swap and definately one of a kind. Good luck on it!
Arnt some modern tanks driven by turbines? Any millitary guys know?


M1A1 Abrams
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Report this Post05-17-2010 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Black LotusSend a Private Message to Black LotusDirect Link to This Post
Have a helluva time smog checking that bad boy methinks. Especially in the Republik of California.


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shawnk
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Report this Post05-18-2010 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
Well I never said it would be cheap. Again it's just an idea. Yea like some one before me said the abrams runs on a turbine. That 18,000 dollar engine is just an example there are other complete running turbine on eBay for 2-5000 so like I said before not much more or less than a create engine
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Report this Post05-18-2010 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for faaaaqClick Here to Email faaaaqSend a Private Message to faaaaqDirect Link to This Post
well, here is my opinion...i will try to disregard the fact that i want to see a turbine powered fiero lol


i think the only way your idea wont take 10-20 years, is to either have a full crew of devs, r&d, many prototypes, and hundreds of thousands of dollar.....OR, buy one of those bikes, swap the engine into Fiero, done lol. yeah it would be more than a simple swap, but it would be by far the easiest and quickest methods, and if my ASSUMPTIONS are correct, probably the cheapest.

good luck either way, and i want a ride
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Report this Post05-18-2010 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
I think if I were to build a turbine-powered car, I'd look for a CVT to pair it up with. I say this, because while turbine engines can generate lots of HP, they generally have pretty slow throttle response. If the RPMs drop, it'll take a while to get them back up. A transmission that doesn't drop the RPMs much (or not at all) would be really beneficial.

Another option would be to use the turbine to power a hydraulic pump, or an electric generator. Then, you could use hydraulic or electric motors to turn the wheels. This would allow the turbine to run at a relatively constant speed. So it would be at peak power for acceleration, and could free-wheel during deceleration.
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Report this Post05-18-2010 01:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shawnkClick Here to Email shawnkSend a Private Message to shawnkDirect Link to This Post
Well I would have to account for jet thrust lag that I know. Maybe a used y2k bike at a resale value lol
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Report this Post05-18-2010 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhileroClick Here to Email PhileroSend a Private Message to PhileroDirect Link to This Post
Actually, what Blactree stated is the best (and as I am sure he knows, already done) idea as far as the turbine goes. I mean, have you seen the electric drag motorcycles?! Like, OMG FAST! And the Tesla?!?! http://www.teslamotors.com/ <---hmmm, me thinks it is a bit of a familiar design. How peculiar

Use the turbine to power the batteries, any you could have one hellava car.
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Report this Post05-18-2010 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
its been made again and again. turbines are only for drag racing really due to the lag time through corners. look up leno's jet bike. its not responsive for what a track driver would want.
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Report this Post05-18-2010 01:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
I have to say this. After everything else is done, you're gonna need a much bigger gas tank. The specific fuel consumption of turbine engines, especially at low altitudes, is absolutely terrible ... usually several times that of an equivalent piston engine. If you can get your Fiero up above 25,000 feet, however, things may get a little better.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-18-2010).]

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Report this Post05-18-2010 05:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CarcenomyClick Here to visit Carcenomy's HomePageSend a Private Message to CarcenomyDirect Link to This Post
I'd go research the MTT Turbine Superbike if I were even contemplating something like this. They've already done the hard research to make a turbine work in an automotive application after all

http://www.marineturbine.com/motorcycles.asp
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Report this Post05-18-2010 06:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
Pipe dream for the average guy but it has been done buy Jay Leno with the Ecoject sports car.

Not only is it a lot of work but it would take a lot of expensive tech help too.

Jay Leno has a bike but he also built he Ecojet sports car with GMs help. The story of it's build is in the Nov 2009 Popular Mechanics.

The motor cycle engine is not powerful enough for a car. You would need one from a medium helecopter. Also you would litteraly have to build the car around it. You would also have to make a special gear box. The car also will do 250 MPH but get poor mileage and the lag is great from take off. It also took a much larger turbin to work in a car vs the bike.

As a toy and a fun car it would be interesting but unless you deep pockets from hosting a late night show, have the backing from a major car MFG or turbin company and have a talented staff working for you this would be a big expensive project and a bit much for the guy at home on his own.

Read about the issued Jay had and still has with the car. If you can afford to do this and the knowledge it would be fun but I wouls guess most here have too little of both to pull this one off let alone fit it in a Fiero.

Lets face it. If this was easy, affordable and practical we would see many more of these.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 05-18-2010).]

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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshh44Send a Private Message to joshh44Direct Link to This Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Turbine_Car
chrysler made a turbine car. i saw an episode on speed.
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for skuzzbomerSend a Private Message to skuzzbomerDirect Link to This Post
Chrysler actually made several turbine cars... They worked on that technology for 35 years and had a number of (fully functional) prototypes. It CAN be done.... But it'll cost quite a bit.
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for couldahadaV8Click Here to visit couldahadaV8's HomePageSend a Private Message to couldahadaV8Direct Link to This Post
Buying a used, fairly cheap turbine engine off Ebay would scare the crap out of me. I wouldn't be anywhere near it when it was fired up. They are simple in principle, but very complicated as far as controls go. They can fail in so many ways, many of them deadly. There is a good reason why a new 700HP crate motor is $15,000 and a new 700HP gas turbine is $300,000. Can it be put in a car and made to work? Of course it can and has been done. Is it going to be done by anyone on this forum "on the cheap"? Nope.

[This message has been edited by couldahadaV8 (edited 05-18-2010).]

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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshh44Send a Private Message to joshh44Direct Link to This Post
i say go to the airport. one of thos trucks with the stairs. and unbolt an turbine off a jet plane
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for larini74Click Here to visit larini74's HomePageClick Here to Email larini74Send a Private Message to larini74Direct Link to This Post
MTT - Marine Turbine Technologies - in Louisana will put a turbine in just about anything - for a price....
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for joshh44Send a Private Message to joshh44Direct Link to This Post
i been told you can make a turbine out of a turbo charger.
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Report this Post05-18-2010 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for couldahadaV8Click Here to visit couldahadaV8's HomePageSend a Private Message to couldahadaV8Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by joshh44:

i been told you can make a turbine out of a turbo charger.


You can. A very inefficient one, but enough to power a model airplane.
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