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Big wheels and stock brakes.... Pictures Please! by LZeppelin513
Started on: 05-15-2010 11:12 PM
Replies: 27
Last post by: williegoat on 05-21-2010 12:29 AM
LZeppelin513
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Report this Post05-15-2010 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Direct Link to This Post
I recently purchased some 5 spoke 17" front and 18" rear wheels for my new 88. I am contemplating the c4 corvette rotor upgrade entirely for the look of the large shiny rotors behind my skimpy wheels. My brakes work great and I still have the s10 booster and new steel braided lines to install, so like i said, I just want that big rotor look. In fact, another reason besides cost that is holding me back is the addition of unsprung weight, which I really want to avoid. Does anyone have pictures of their car with stock brakes and big wheels?

Thanks,
Blake
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madcurl
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Report this Post05-16-2010 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post
Stock brakes using 19" on all corners. There's a thread that features many Fieros/wheels, but I'm not sure about them being stock brakes--most upgrade the brakes ASAP!



You'll need to sort through the various pics for the combination your looking for;
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052912.html
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"Friends don't let their friends drive stock."

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 05-16-2010).]

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skuzzbomer
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Report this Post05-16-2010 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skuzzbomerSend a Private Message to skuzzbomerDirect Link to This Post
Scion TC 17"



Stock brakes.... not that great.
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fierodustin_86
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Report this Post05-16-2010 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierodustin_86Click Here to Email fierodustin_86Send a Private Message to fierodustin_86Direct Link to This Post
18" Ruff Racing wheels and stock brakes.


Same wheels with 12" Vette rotors.
Just to give you some ideas.

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Hulki U. My-BFF
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Report this Post05-16-2010 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFDirect Link to This Post
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BlackThunderGT
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Report this Post05-16-2010 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlackThunderGTSend a Private Message to BlackThunderGTDirect Link to This Post
17" Borbet wheels

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Report this Post05-17-2010 06:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
excuse the pics of the unfinished bodykit I have since finished it and will post more new pics after i have painted the car. More pics at http://www.wedriveexcitement.com/ and build thread. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/067740.html
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LZeppelin513
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Report this Post05-18-2010 01:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Direct Link to This Post
Thanks everyone, pluses for you all. This is a tough choice, I hate adding the un-sprung weight of big rotors, and am not going to pay a grand for light big rotors. hmmm, decisions.
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Erik
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Report this Post05-18-2010 03:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LZeppelin513:

Thanks everyone, pluses for you all. This is a tough choice, I hate adding the un-sprung weight of big rotors, and am not going to pay a grand for light big rotors. hmmm, decisions.


If you go for C4 rotors they are only a 1 or 2 lbs more than 88 rotors. Mine weigh 12lbs. If you go for lighter weight rims in combo with the 12inch rotors you can actually lose some unsprung weight as compared to stock. Another way is to just do the front which will gain you stopping power from stock but not at the same level of possible weight gain by going all 4 corners. That is what I did with mine and it very noticably stops quicker than stock.
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LZeppelin513
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Report this Post05-18-2010 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:


If you go for C4 rotors they are only a 1 or 2 lbs more than 88 rotors. Mine weigh 12lbs. If you go for lighter weight rims in combo with the 12inch rotors you can actually lose some unsprung weight as compared to stock..


Nice car. I thought the c4 brakes were way heavier than 12 lbs. Are your c4 rotors stock? West Coast Fiero has them listed at 27lbs. http://www.westcoastfiero.c...rakes/brakes_12.html

If they are only 12 lbs thats awesome.
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Erik
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Report this Post05-19-2010 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LZeppelin513:


Nice car. I thought the c4 brakes were way heavier than 12 lbs. Are your c4 rotors stock? West Coast Fiero has them listed at 27lbs. http://www.westcoastfiero.c...rakes/brakes_12.html

If they are only 12 lbs thats awesome.

Yeah mine weigh 12 lbs a piece ..they are stock c4 rotors from Napa. They have obiously made a mistake at west coast as far as weight for a stock c4 rotor. I notice no difference in get up and go or handling between stock 88 and c4 rotors other than the nice increase in stopping power

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Report this Post05-19-2010 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
I guess I'm a little late to the game. But here's a shot of my Fiero with 17" wheels and Grand Am brakes. The Grand Am brake rotors are almost the same as the '88 Fiero rotors.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 05-21-2010).]

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-19-2010 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
If you're going to go with C4 rotors, do it on all four corners.

The front-only upgrade with stock rears will increase stopping distance compared to stock all around.

On a Fiero, you really want the same braking hardware all around.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-19-2010).]

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Erik
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Report this Post05-19-2010 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

If you're going to go with C4 rotors, do it on all four corners.

The front-only upgrade with stock rears will increase stopping distance compared to stock all around.

On a Fiero, you really want the same braking hardware all around.



Mine stops in a shorter distance with just the front upgrade
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-19-2010 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
The ass-o-meter does not constitute a valid test, unless there's something you're not telling, such as the use of different pad compounds between the front and rear.

Edit: I realise the tone of this post was sarcastic, but it doesn't make ANY sense that a front-only upgrade would reduce stopping distance.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 05-19-2010).]

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LZeppelin513
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Report this Post05-19-2010 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LZeppelin513Click Here to Email LZeppelin513Send a Private Message to LZeppelin513Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

I guess I'm a little late to the game. But here's a shot of my Fiero with 17" wheels and Grand Am brakes. The Grand Am brake rotors are almost the same as the '88 Fiero rotors.



Blacktree,
What size tires are you using? Thanks
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Blacktree
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Report this Post05-19-2010 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
They're 215/45-ZR17 front and rear. I'm not sure if you're interested in the brand and model of tire, but just in case they're General Exclaim UHP. Wet weather traction is great. Dry pavement traction is pretty good, too. I wouldn't try to drive 'em in the snow, though.
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Erik
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Report this Post05-19-2010 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

The ass-o-meter does not constitute a valid test, unless there's something you're not telling, such as the use of different pad compounds between the front and rear.

Edit: I realise the tone of this post was sarcastic, but it doesn't make ANY sense that a front-only upgrade would reduce stopping distance.



I measured the distance it took to stop between stock and the upgrade using stock pad style pads on both setups and although I do not have the exact figure on hand ( did it several yrs ago) it did in fact stopped in a shorter distance.

I recently changed back to stock and I could imediately tell the difference in stopping power and it took awhile to adjust brake timing ( brake earlier ) so I wouldnt run into other cars

Makes sense to me that more leverage will allow you to stop quicker.

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-20-2010 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
Commonly accepted fact: shortest stopping distances are achieved when the tires are just at the verge of lockup (threshold braking).

Stopping power does not equate to short stopping distance. Ultimately, regardless of how many pistons your caliper has, or how large your rotors are, you can't stop any more quickly than your tires will allow. Doesn't matter how much leverage you have. As long as you're capable of locking up the wheels (stock brakes can do this), more leverage isn't going to make any difference.

What happens with a properly balanced brake system? The driver steps on the brake pedal, and modulates the brakes such that all of the car's tires are threshold braking.

What happens with large front brakes and small rear brakes? Remember that the driver only has one brake pedal to control both the front and rear brakes.

The ratio of front:rear braking force (known as bias) is affected by the brake hardware. Large front rotors and stock rear rotors mean increased leverage on the front, but not the rear. Therefore, with the front-only upgrade, the ratio of front:rear braking force is higher than stock.

So the driver steps on the brake pedal, and is able to modulate the pedal to achieve threshold braking on the front brakes. But not the rear brakes? Why not? Now that the rear brakes are weaker compared to the fronts, the rear brakes aren't braking very hard. They aren't anywhere near the threshold. The rear wheels no longer contribute as much to the braking, which increases stopping distance.
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Erik
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Report this Post05-20-2010 01:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
Well obviously the upgrade does stop it quicker as I have measured the difference in stopping distance as well have experienced several yrs using the combo then changing back to stock and noticing a decrease in the ability to stop.
I doubt the clamping forces from the calipers front to rear change just by changing size in rotors up front so, it just stands to reason that the stopping power from the front brakes more than compensates than any supposed loss of power from the rear hence the measurable decrease in stopping distance
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-20-2010 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
Clamping force of the caliper does not change when installing larger rotors. However, the moment arm *does* increase, and therefore brake torque for a given clamping force increases.

You don't get any more braking force from the front with Corvette rotors compared to stock. The tires are the limiting factor in how quickly you can stop. If you can reach the limit of tire adhesion with stock brakes, you're not going to stop any faster.

Maybe a magazine has more clout that I do:

http://www.modified.com/roa...rake_test/index.html
http://www.modified.com/roa...ke_test/results.html
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Report this Post05-20-2010 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
Bigger rotors = less brake fade.

Anyway, this thread is about how bigger wheels look compared to stock brakes, in case you haven't noticed.
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Erik
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Report this Post05-20-2010 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Clamping force of the caliper does not change when installing larger rotors. However, the moment arm *does* increase, and therefore brake torque for a given clamping force increases.

You don't get any more braking force from the front with Corvette rotors compared to stock. The tires are the limiting factor in how quickly you can stop. If you can reach the limit of tire adhesion with stock brakes, you're not going to stop any faster.

Maybe a magazine has more clout that I do:

http://www.modified.com/roa...rake_test/index.html
http://www.modified.com/roa...ke_test/results.html



I cannot lock up the stock brakes with my bigger wheels and wider tires so I am not reaching the limits of tire adhesion. By installing a larger rotor I am able to use all the grip availibe from the wider tire because it has better leverage which equates into more resistance or force in slowing down the wheel faster where as the stock rotor has less leverage

Besides that, what has more clout to me is my own personal driving experience and test that showed an improvement in stopping distance as well as having to adjust to the longer distance required to stop when driving agressively to avoid possibly crashing and going into a ditch or missing a curve after changing back to stock. With the stock brakes I have to brake earlier, with the upgrade I can confidently brake later

I had thought about putting the rear c4 rotors on for even better braking but like the OP, I was concerned about unsprung weight even though a pound or 2 is not that great of a weight increase, I am very picky and choose to just do the fronts as a good compromise in stopping power, unsprung weight as well as for looks.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-20-2010 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Bigger rotors = less brake fade.

Anyway, this thread is about how bigger wheels look compared to stock brakes, in case you haven't noticed.


It was, but I felt the need to intervene once a bad suggestion was given to the OP.
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Erik
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Report this Post05-20-2010 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


It was, but I felt the need to intervene once a bad suggestion was given to the OP.


in your opinion..

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Report this Post05-20-2010 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
Okay back on topic, we have stock 88 brakes behind 20s...



Not recommended. I have the C4 kit, but never got around to installing them.

And for the record, I agree with Erik.
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Report this Post05-21-2010 12:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for skuzzbomerSend a Private Message to skuzzbomerDirect Link to This Post
Wow... Jonathan, I didn't even notice the brakes were there at first glance. They look so tiny.

I thought my 17s made them look small...
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Report this Post05-21-2010 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatDirect Link to This Post


18" wheel

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