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For those with aluminium heads on 2.8 - 3.4s by Francis T
Started on: 05-08-2010 09:56 AM
Replies: 27
Last post by: carbon on 12-08-2010 05:02 PM
Francis T
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Report this Post05-08-2010 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
We're -trueleo.com- building a set of custom headers for a customer with alluminuim on heads a 3.4 and may also do an intake. I was wondering how many other folks have those heads on the Fireos?

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Report this Post05-08-2010 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Francis T:

We're -trueleo.com- building a set of custom headers for a customer with alluminuim on heads a 3.4 and may also do an intake. I was wondering how many other folks have those heads on the Fireos?



not too many people here have done that...for whatever reason..... the guys over at 60degreev6, there is alot of people who have...
the question i have, is small port or large port? those headers, if being large port, should fit a 3500 too, as im using 3400 manifolds and crossover on my 3500...

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Francis T
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Report this Post05-08-2010 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hookdonspeed:


not too many people here have done that...for whatever reason..... the guys over at 60degreev6, there is alot of people who have...
the question i have, is small port or large port? those headers, if being large port, should fit a 3500 too, as im using 3400 manifolds and crossover on my 3500...


I'm not sure as to port size, I wont have the customer's heads for at least a few more days. And I know only a few have done it for the Fiero. Normally I would shy away form such and one-off thing, but the customer is kind of cool and understands whats involed. I'll likely post the project later. We just shipped an intake -centered TB neck- to guy from 60deg guess I should ask over there too.

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post05-09-2010 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
will you be making these in the fiero Ypipe style, or the 3x00 crossover pipe style?


and yes, i def recomend any 60deg parts being made posted over there as well... bigger market hell they got their own store!!
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Report this Post05-09-2010 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sunofjusticeClick Here to Email sunofjusticeSend a Private Message to sunofjusticeDirect Link to This Post
Serendipity!

I too was wondering if aluminum heads
could be retrofitted to the fieros 2.8.

Not trying to hijack th' thread,but
could a roller cam be incorporated
as well???
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post05-09-2010 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
it...CAN, but honestly, it would be more worth it just going to the rollor cam block, its almost a direct bolt in replacement, theres is ALOT of info on the 60degreev6 hybrid swaps on that site...
plus.. u get more displacement then the 2.8 without having to go oversized :P
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Francis T
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Report this Post05-11-2010 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hookdonspeed:

will you be making these in the fiero Ypipe style, or the 3x00 crossover pipe style?


and yes, i def recomend any 60deg parts being made posted over there as well... bigger market hell they got their own store!!


The set I'm doing now will be for a turbo and thus has to be a Y setup. Whereas most will want to retain their stock exhaust system or an aftermarket one, I will like make the jigs Y pipe configuration.

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Report this Post05-11-2010 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Francis T:


The set I'm doing now will be for a turbo and thus has to be a Y setup. Whereas most will want to retain their stock exhaust system or an aftermarket one, I will like make the jigs Y pipe configuration.


if you want someone to "test" fit those on a 3500....
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Report this Post05-11-2010 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CowsPatootClick Here to visit CowsPatoot's HomePageSend a Private Message to CowsPatootDirect Link to This Post
You have piqued my interest. I am in the process of doing a 3400 swap right now. Depending on cost and time, I could be interested in a set of headers that would allow me to use my old exhaust system. The exhaust seems to be the one piece of this puzzle that needs to be custom made....would like to see that solved.
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Report this Post05-12-2010 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofurySend a Private Message to fierofuryDirect Link to This Post
I would be interested as I plan on doing a 3400 swap after I pay my school loans off.
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Report this Post05-12-2010 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
yes - the main reason people DONT use the alum heads is because of no intake choices.
and, of course - dogbone relocation, and no exhaust choices.....
gen 2 or 3 alum heads?
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Report this Post05-12-2010 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
This may turn out to be almost as important to the Fiero community as the original Trueleo intake was, in that it allowed the iron head 3.4 to live up to more of its potential.

One of the main problems with swapping any aluminum head 60 degree V6 into a Fiero is the lack of an intake that will allow a distributor to be installed.
Admittedly, the 7730 ECM swap has helped a great deal in that regard, but I suspect that there are some people who don't want to bother with that.

I hope that others will chime in and comment on this.

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Report this Post05-12-2010 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mtownfieroClick Here to Email mtownfieroSend a Private Message to mtownfieroDirect Link to This Post
I have done a 2nd gen aluminum head motor and there are solutions to many of the problems people have said already. The problem with putting gen 2 or 3 heads on the fiero block is the fact that especially on the earlier v6 blocks there isnt anywhere for a crank position sensor or a knock sensor. On the later blocks (88- up?) there is. My 2nd gen block uses the later fiero pan and timing cover to keep the fiero accessories with a custom dogbone mount. The 7730 dis wiring is pretty easy and Darths guide works great. Having headers that use a y-pipe would definatly help because the only way to over come this right now with out just blocking off the rear exhaust dump is to use tgp manifolds that are harder to come by.
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Francis T
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Report this Post05-12-2010 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
When I get the heads I plan on looking at what can be done with/for the intake. This customer is using a coil pac and no distrib thus he can use the stock intake manifold. WIth it being such a limited demand item, it will have to be something simple - cant buy an lot CNC flanges etc.
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Report this Post05-12-2010 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mtownfieroClick Here to Email mtownfieroSend a Private Message to mtownfieroDirect Link to This Post
if your making something similar to what you sell for the 2.8l that is going to the stock or stock style y-pipe the only difference would be that on the 2nd gen heads the flange would be slightly different with the holes ferther apart. On the 3x00 motors the flange just needs to have the larger D port on it. Im pretty sure thats the only real differences, the bolt spacing and the port depending on year of the motor.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
francis: over on WOT-TECH store @ 60degreeV6, you can buy the D shape pipe molder (make round pipes into the propper D) and the flanges to mount to the head.
might be easyer to do that then to fab your own if your only going to make a few of these... then you just need to bend the pipes and weld it up..
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Report this Post05-13-2010 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
ya know putting aluminum heads on a 2.8 for a turbo application doesn't make sense to me. If you went to the 3.1 you'd get the dish shaped pistons built in, which are pretty good for turbo applications. The flat top pistons on the 2.8 aren't ideal.

This just doesn't quite compute for me. Kind of intriguing.

Arn
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post05-15-2010 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

ya know putting aluminum heads on a 2.8 for a turbo application doesn't make sense to me. If you went to the 3.1 you'd get the dish shaped pistons built in, which are pretty good for turbo applications. The flat top pistons on the 2.8 aren't ideal.

This just doesn't quite compute for me. Kind of intriguing.

Arn


the alum heads in their stock form outflow most ported iron heads... but i agree, just bolting the alum heads up for a turbo app will not be a good idea as it makes close to a 11.5:1 compression ratio, changing the pistons and putting the alum heads on....well, then you can get a low comp and high flow setup.
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Report this Post05-15-2010 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Direct Link to This Post
I do not know the shape of the aluminum heads or how costly this may be but..... could you make a new lower intake that fits between the aluminum heads on a stock fiero engine/3.1/3.4? Then you can either use the stock fiero upper intakes and fuel rail or the trueleo setup. If something like that were available I think some people would buy more headers and y-pipes.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is a crazy amount of work though but it is a thought.
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Francis T
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Report this Post05-15-2010 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hookdonspeed:

francis: over on WOT-TECH store @ 60degreeV6, you can buy the D shape pipe molder (make round pipes into the propper D) and the flanges to mount to the head.
might be easyer to do that then to fab your own if your only going to make a few of these... then you just need to bend the pipes and weld it up..


Thanks I'll check it out. With our intakes I press -with a DIY buck- the ends of the round runners into a rectangle to match the lower intake .

BTW: I'm pretty sure my customer is having custom pistons made. I'd tell more of the mods he's doing but I'm sure he would rather do that himself.
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post05-17-2010 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
ran into a "snag" on my swap....

i might be needing a set of these headers, the 3400 crossover pipe totally does not allow my shift/selector cables to be used on the 4speed... not to mention it contacts the brackets (actually, i now need a bracket because of this.)

what do you think price for them is going to be?
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Report this Post05-17-2010 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LilchiefSend a Private Message to LilchiefDirect Link to This Post
Kick this idea around. Make 3500 headers in the 1 5/8" and 1 3/4" diameter primaries and 2 1/4", 2 1/2" collectors.

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post05-17-2010 03:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Kick this idea around. Make 3500 headers in the 1 5/8" and 1 3/4" diameter primaries and 2 1/4", 2 1/2" collectors.



3400/3500 should be able to use the same headers...

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Francis T
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Report this Post09-11-2010 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
Here's what they (almost) look like, they still need some porting inside the collectors, flash cleaning, etc. I'm not sure if we'll more if we do it will be for norm aspraited engines only. With so few usign those heads, they are likely just a one-off set. West Caost Fieros makes headers for those heads too.




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Francis T
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Report this Post12-07-2010 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

This may turn out to be almost as important to the Fiero community as the original Trueleo intake was, in that it allowed the iron head 3.4 to live up to more of its potential.

One of the main problems with swapping any aluminum head 60 degree V6 into a Fiero is the lack of an intake that will allow a distributor to be installed.
Admittedly, the 7730 ECM swap has helped a great deal in that regard, but I suspect that there are some people who don't want to bother with that.

I hope that others will chime in and comment on this.



Just a lil update of sort; We're building anoher set of aluminium head headers for customer. This set is for a norm asp engine. WIth no EGR and 2.5" outlet. I'll post some photos when done. While I heads on my mule engine I'll take look at what it will take to make a custom intale thatwill accomadate the distrib.
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carbon
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Report this Post12-08-2010 08:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonDirect Link to This Post
Those look cool... but it doesn't look like you took into account that the lower intake used by aluminum heads has the thermostat housing outlet pipe right where your crossover tube is and then shoots right into the top runner of the front header, maybe there is more room there that it looks... with the aluminum heads everything is on the throttle body side of the engine.

You would have to create a new lower intake to use a distributor, coolant passages and all... I don't see aftermarket intakes for the 3x00 being feasible. Unlike the iron head pieces, they already flow pretty well and respond very well to porting.

<----- Pulleys ----- Transmission ----->


[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 12-08-2010).]

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Francis T
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Report this Post12-08-2010 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

Those look cool... but it doesn't look like you took into account that the lower intake used by aluminum heads has the thermostat housing outlet pipe right where your crossover tube is and then shoots right into the top runner of the front header, maybe there is more room there that it looks... with the aluminum heads everything is on the throttle body side of the engine.

You would have to create a new lower intake to use a distributor, coolant passages and all... I don't see aftermarket intakes for the 3x00 being feasible. Unlike the iron head pieces, they already flow pretty well and respond very well to porting.

<----- Pulleys ----- Transmission ----->




The fellow we made the headers for in the photos above said you just need to turn or use a dif neek. I think he;s not going with a distributor also. Another customer modified our headers for ironheads to work with those heads.

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carbon
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Report this Post12-08-2010 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonDirect Link to This Post
As far as I know, it is just a matter of slotting the holes on the flange to allow for the bolt holes/studs being farther apart.. the port spacing is the same.
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