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Help settle a bet . Factory V8 fiero. by Australian
Started on: 04-29-2010 06:00 AM
Replies: 28
Last post by: hyperv6 on 04-30-2010 10:34 PM
Australian
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Report this Post04-29-2010 06:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
Ok I had a disagreement about whether a factory v8 ever existed and this is what i found.
My arguement was i am sure there are a few not sure how or if sold but there were V8's made at the factory.
He said it was only ever designed for a 6 and only ever came 4 and 6 which i dont disagree with and that all v8s were put in privately
not by a dealer but factory which i dont disagree. But do i win the bet? Anyone got one of these?


Fiero prototypes were tested with a similar small aluminum V8 prior to production Source wikipedia.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post04-29-2010 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Considering GM doesnt have one in their private collection, I am willing to bet this was nothing but a dream/rumor.
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Report this Post04-29-2010 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanDirect Link to This Post
A V8 wasn't even on the options list so unless there was a single, well heeled buyer who convinced somoene really high up the GM food chain to build him a one off, then no.
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Macs86GT
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Report this Post04-29-2010 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTDirect Link to This Post
All v8's were aftermarket kits like the Zumwalt and Archie kit, or built by the owner of the vehicle.
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css9450
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Report this Post04-29-2010 08:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Direct Link to This Post
I read a few posts on another forum where a guy insisted the 5.0 V8 was standard in the 88 Formula. He even went so far as ridicule the people who attempted to correct him ("Please tell me you didn't just look that up on Wikipedia.... Trust me, I used to own a Fiero...I KNOW.").
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squisher86SE
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Report this Post04-29-2010 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for squisher86SESend a Private Message to squisher86SEDirect Link to This Post
Well, older *FIREBIRD* formulas came with 5.0 v8s... (3rd gen I believe).

Fiero...well...um... Not so much.

Couple of test mules way back in development days I think had a v8 (maybe just one) but nothing "production" and afaik they never sold one like that.
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larini74
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Report this Post04-29-2010 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for larini74Click Here to visit larini74's HomePageClick Here to Email larini74Send a Private Message to larini74Direct Link to This Post
there was a story/rumor that GM did make a v8 Fiero and tested it against a Vette, and it beat the pants off of the Vette's times.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-29-2010 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
The only performance one from the factory I ever seen was a supposed factory built turbo car. I seen it at a car show once in northern Ohio and it had all kinds of documentation with it.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-29-2010 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadDirect Link to This Post
I had a guy tell me my 4.9 88 Formula was one of the few 'factory V-8 cars'.

It does look factory, even down to the 93 Eldorado emissions sticker on the decklid, but it is not a factory car.
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Nosferatu187
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Report this Post04-29-2010 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Nosferatu187Send a Private Message to Nosferatu187Direct Link to This Post
I knew I had seen this here somewhere, searched a little and:



Entire thread here:

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/077818.html

No production V8 Fieros that I know of but according to that newsletter at least one V8 Fiero was made by Pontiac.

Mike
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86GT3.4DOHC
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Report this Post04-29-2010 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
The 'official' answer would be no. No V8 fiero ever rolled off the production line.

What may have been in a GM shop done to a rare car or two for giggles \ what ifs after the car rolled out of the factory is unknown, but the true spirit of the answer is no.

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faaaaq
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Report this Post04-29-2010 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for faaaaqClick Here to Email faaaaqSend a Private Message to faaaaqDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Nosferatu187:

I knew I had seen this here somewhere, searched a little and:
Mike


wow....a car killed because it was TOO good?
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madcurl
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Report this Post04-29-2010 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlDirect Link to This Post
I saw a plastic engine in the back, but it wasn't a Fiero.

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Doug85GT
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Report this Post04-29-2010 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by faaaaq:


wow....a car killed because it was TOO good?


That is GM mentallity there.

When Audi wanted to make the R8 and it was pointed out that the R8 would compete with Porsche, what did parent company VW AG do? They let them build the R8 because they decided that the competition would cause better cars to be made.

If the Fiero was allowed to continue and evolve it would have forced Corvette to make better cars. We might have seen the C5 a lot earlier instead of the C4 platform being built for 12 years.
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MadMark
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Report this Post04-29-2010 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkDirect Link to This Post
One of my bosses just bought a brand new R-8. And not the piddly V-8, he had to buy the one with the V10 and 525HP. He has had it to work a few days over the last week and it brings people driving by back around for a closer look. Sweet car, but it is sure costly.
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Isolde
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Report this Post04-29-2010 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IsoldeSend a Private Message to IsoldeDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero seems to have been killed because of threats by Ferrari to sue GM because of the Mera.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-29-2010 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadDirect Link to This Post
Mark, are you going to take him for a ride in the 3800SC car?

That will more than likely pi55 him off!
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Australian
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Report this Post04-30-2010 06:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
Well i have to back down from the bet and just agree with him that a v8 never existed because as i knew it changes his story and argues that one was never available to buy at a dealership and rather than listen to him go one and an on about it pay up even though i am right. The facts were as per posted now they seem to be different.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-30-2010 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
The 2.9 Turbo was in two Fiero's late 84-85. They were red and black GT coupes. One today is the T top GT fastback Pontiac still has.

The cars originally had tail lights that said Porsche Eater when the brake lights were on.

Pontiac made the engineers remove the tail lights when Pontiac went to Porsche engineering to tune the GM designed front suspension for the future 88 car in 85-86.
So whole th Lotus tune is false the truth is GM designed the suspension but had Lotus work on the geometry and srub radius to make it handle and steer lighter.

The black car was lost and the engine was used in the transport show car in the 90's. It still has the engine today.

Word was they were worried about the liability of a such powerful engine in a small car. I guess that is no longer an issue at GM as many cars today have as much or much more power.

I have heard the V8 Story in relation to Hulki but have never seen pictures nor any documentation of the car nor anyone other than Hulki mention it. It tends to be the unicorn of the Fiero line.

What many fail to learn is the original concpcept of the Fiero came from GM design in the 70's as a concept presented to Chevy for a V6 midengine Vette. The concept was based much on the way the Fiero panned out. But Chevy was not willing to give up on the front engine nor V8 unless they had too. Also there was the twin engine Citation mule that was sold last year. At that point they were looking to do two engines as they thought the V8 may be lost to them. The rear was pretty much a Fiero lay out.

The proposal was offered to Pontiac and they picked it up and ran with it. It was kind of like the 1990 becoming the 4th gen F body. Good Ideas are seldom lost and are resued in other way. The book Inside the Corvette has this story by thier Hulki Dave Mcclellan who headed the Vette for many years.

What we know and hear of many of GM's programs are only a small part of what really went on. While I will not say anyone lies or misleads often they just don't talk or give the agreed company line. Years later they will still stick with the line as not to change GM history too. Once in a while you may get someone who leak a truth out or photos but that is rare.
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Report this Post04-30-2010 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolBlue87GTClick Here to Email CoolBlue87GTSend a Private Message to CoolBlue87GTDirect Link to This Post
I've spoken to a gentleman located here in Port Charlotte FL, he worked for Pontiac while the Fiero was still in production.

He claims to have a prototype fiero that does have an aluminum V8 the was used as a testing platform.

He told me it's been stored up north in another state for the last few years. The last time I spoke to him in March, he was in the process of having three of his cars shipped down here to Florida. I remember three years ago, his shop was doing some work on my Formula, we talked about it back then, he said he's not looking for any publicity. I did tell him about our forum, and how we have thousands of members that would love to hear the story behind the car.

I ask if I could take photo's when it gets here. He said yes.

I will contact him today & see if it's here yet. The rumor goes on, stay tuned....
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Report this Post04-30-2010 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for couldahadaV8Click Here to visit couldahadaV8's HomePageSend a Private Message to couldahadaV8Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT:

I've spoken to a gentleman located here in Port Charlotte FL, he worked for Pontiac while the Fiero was still in production.

He claims to have a prototype fiero that does have an aluminum V8 the was used as a testing platform.



Let me guess....it's being shipped down from V8 Archie's shop. Nice that when you work for Pontiac they give you their test cars when they are done with them.
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Report this Post04-30-2010 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
I dont think I remember anything about Ferrari sueing Pontiac about Mera. Pontiac did not manufacture them, but only sold them thru Pontiac dealers and then as a 'MERA', not anything to do with Ferrari name. It was done just like buying a Shelby thru a Ford dealer. Im pretty sure they only went after aftermarket kit companies as I remember it.
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Report this Post04-30-2010 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for av8fieroClick Here to Email av8fieroSend a Private Message to av8fieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I dont think I remember anything about Ferrari sueing Pontiac about Mera. Pontiac did not manufacture them, but only sold them thru Pontiac dealers and then as a 'MERA', not anything to do with Ferrari name. It was done just like buying a Shelby thru a Ford dealer. Im pretty sure they only went after aftermarket kit companies as I remember it.


Ferrari went after Mera and maybe after Pontiac/GM to cease Mera production due to copyright infringement. I don't know how it went down exactly, ask Rodney as he is THE Mera expert, but the company producing the Mera body was court ordered to destroy the molds to avoid further legal action

------------------
88blackchopv8

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CoolBlue87GT
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Report this Post04-30-2010 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolBlue87GTClick Here to Email CoolBlue87GTSend a Private Message to CoolBlue87GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by couldahadaV8:


Let me guess....it's being shipped down from V8 Archie's shop. Nice that when you work for Pontiac they give you their test cars when they are done with them.


Last time I talked to him, he told me it's not a V8 Archie set up. He does know of Archie.

Will get more info, we had out of town family come visit today, when I get time will get all the facts from him.
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couldahadaV8
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Report this Post04-30-2010 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for couldahadaV8Click Here to visit couldahadaV8's HomePageSend a Private Message to couldahadaV8Direct Link to This Post
I guess I'm just really doubtful that such a vehicle exists and nobody, with one exception, knew about it.
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dratts
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Report this Post04-30-2010 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
I keep thinking that I remember gary zumalt (sp) working with GM on a kit that required countersunk flywheel bolts.
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Report this Post04-30-2010 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
There was a thread here quite a while back that showed pics of some of the Fiero prototypes. One was a factory SE or early GT convertible in red. It mentioned the existance of a V8 prototype as well, but did not show a picture as I recall. I would not put it past Pontiac to have actually built one. Does anyone know of any Fiero design engineers that could enlighten us?
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Report this Post04-30-2010 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsDirect Link to This Post
Surely Archie would be aware of any GM built Fiero V8s.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-30-2010 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
Ferrari went after Mera not Pontiac. Pontiac was not the MFG of the Mera only a supplier and retailer.

While I will not say the car never happened as GM has had some crazy mules over the years I still think it may be a myth.

From what I have seen over the years I have collected almost every story on the Fiero an never seen a hint of a V8. A back door mule could have gotten by detctrion of many so there is always that remote chance.

Also Keep in mind Hulki is good for info pre 1984 as after he was no longer with the program. I think some of the drivetrain engineers would be the best that could comment on this if they could be contacted. They would know what someone had done in one of the fab shops.

A car like this would be hard to keep a seceret and someone would have had to remember it at some point other than one person who was not with the program the entire time.

Even the best kept secerets like the two Aluminum space frame cars even were outed over time.
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