I have a FREE, fairly low-mileage, Series 1 3800 S/C engine and trans (225 hp 260 tq from a 95 Riviera) that I am putting into my 87 GT. I wanted additional information from ZZP regarding their smaller M62 pulley. The email I received from them about buying THEIR product was, "throw it in the trash and get a Series II"....

Does anyone else see a problem with that, or am I being too sensitive?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong it may be. As a marketing tool, ie:getting you to buy one or more of their products, that kind of response is really NOT that effective, now is it? If they don't have the time to answer intelligent questions I wouldn't hesitate to spend my money elsewhere. I also wouldn't hesitate to tell everyone I could, exactly how "unprofessional" they are.

you might want to check out the forum on http://www.3800pro.com for assistance....

Wow, talk about lack of tact.... I'd have been a bit peeved as well.

On another note, their pretty much right...

------------------
Is this where I insert something witty?

Tim is going crazy.... Seriously, there are people on the other 3800 forums that are getting downright furious over some of his emails.

Of course. He's losing his patience with people thinking anything other than his way. I've been on both sides of an issue, both as the absolute-final-word-expert, and as the inquiring mind. He's currently feeling like the absolute-final-word-expert, and there's nothing we can do about it but keep it in mind and be the bigger person(s).

It actually sounds like a great marketing tactic. They sell WAY more parts for series II than for series I, so he is thinking that if you do take his advice and you already know about ZZP then they will sell more parts than one simple little SC pulley. Just a thought, I dont think its right but I do understand why he might respond that way.

-Joe

quote Originally posted by joesfiero: It actually sounds like a great marketing tactic. They sell WAY more parts for series II than for series I, so he is thinking that if you do take his advice and you already know about ZZP then they will sell more parts than one simple little SC pulley. Just a thought, I dont think its right but I do understand why he might respond that way. -Joe

...but if he pisses you off you won't buy anything from him whether you bought a Series-II or not. I sure as hell wouldn't.

[This message has been edited by 1986 Fiero GT (edited 04-27-2010).]

I would. It must be admitted that he has a recipe that is well proven.

Even though I do agree you probably are better off with a series II, and ZZP does sell a lot of parts for the series II not so much for series I. You having a series II would hopefully lead to you buying more parts from them. Though if you respond rude to the customer even if they did buy a series II why would they do buissness with you?? I have emailed Tim before and he has helped me out so I dont know? I guess he figures he wont be doing much buissness with you for a series I so hes gunna be rude?? But good luck on your swap! 2 weeks till I get my trans from TEP and mines going in!

quote Originally posted by ICCAMDFIERO: Even though I do agree you probably are better off with a series II, and ZZP does sell a lot of parts for the series II not so much for series I. You having a series II would hopefully lead to you buying more parts from them. Though if you respond rude to the customer even if they did buy a series II why would they do buissness with you?? I have emailed Tim before and he has helped me out so I dont know? I guess he figures he wont be doing much buissness with you for a series I so hes gunna be rude?? But good luck on your swap! 2 weeks till I get my trans from TEP and mines going in!

That was my point. If he's a complete dick to me, I'm not going to do business with him. Period. I don't care whether he's the only distributor for something I really want, I just plain wouldn't be able to do business with him.

ZZP rules the 3800 market so they are not to worried about what they say....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: ZZP rules the 3800 market so they are not to worried about what they say....

Which doesn't really help my disinterest in 3800s.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: ZZP rules the 3800 market so they are not to worried about what they say....

Nice positive and helpful comment... I bet IROCTAFIERO will know just what to do now!

Hey ITF (I hope you don't mind me abbreviating), if I can be of any help, please let me know. I am no expert, but I will do what I can.

BTW MBW, the word you were searching for, but still precludes you is "too"... Is it really that difficult to figure out the difference between the them? Please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZW-eCcAmnQ

If you are planning to mod your 3800, the series 2 will give you a much better starting point and a ton more options, I think that is common knowledge. But yikes, there are better ways to say it than what you got in that email for sure.

------------------

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Of course. He's losing his patience with people thinking anything other than his way.

I can relate in a way. Thru the years all the people that have called on Getrag info. Example: I have a 400 HP small block I want to put in my Fiero. I want to take it to the drag strip and do hard launches and speed shift it. Will it hold up? OK buddy. I tell them to buy a Camero.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

MstangsBware is right. I guess that trying to hot-rod a series one is like someone wanting to hot rod a six cylinder Camaro. It really is a waste of money. But after thinking on it, I think ZZP does owe the OP an apology. Someone send ZZP a link to this thread. Someone send a link to whatever forum ZZP is active on, showing them the problem. Maybe with every forum telling him he's wrong, he'll make a little more effort to at least communicate civil-ly.

quote Originally posted by Philero: Nice positive and helpful comment... I bet IROCTAFIERO will know just what to do now! Hey ITF (I hope you don't mind me abbreviating), if I can be of any help, please let me know. I am no expert, but I will do what I can. BTW MBW, the word you were searching for, but still precludes you is "too"... Is it really that difficult to figure out the difference between the them? Please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZW-eCcAmnQ

I don't mind, I just have no idea what you just tried to communicate. Oh well, I was just reading, trying to learn something.

Ron

I don't want to really build this Series 1. I planned on doing exactly one mod and that was buying the pulley upgrade that is offered at ZZP. If I can gain 10-20hp from spending $50, why wouldn't I?

This is a 225 hp engine, from a fairly low-mileage car, that is FREE, already pulled, with a PCM and harness.
I already had a set of Purple Reign mounts. I already had a low-mileage 4T60E. I already had an auto 87 GT with a knocking 2.8.
I am not building a track car but a daily driver that will get better mpg and have about 85 more hp than the non-running engine it is replacing.

This engine (stock) makes more hp than a DOHC, Short*, 4.5, 4.9, NA Series II, 3100, 3400, 3500, 3.4, and some SBCs.

The day this engine dies, I will replace it with a Series II. As it stands, I will buy parts for that engine from ANYONE else. So not only do they not get my money now with my Series 1, but they will not get a penny from me with a Series II. My best friend owns a Fiero and is planning a Series II swap in the future. He also says he will not deal with ZZP. I know 2 little Fieros aren't a big deal to them since they have a larger market; I just do not expect to receive an email like this from a reputable business.

One of the guys on the kitcar forum was wanting to put a turbo on his na 3800 and I offered somewhat similar advice. I told him that he should start with a sc engine because it had a stronger bottom end built for the pressure that a turbo will add. I would have taken his advice, sold the series 1 and started over with a series 2. I might have been a little more sensitive than he was, but I doubt that he was trying to put you down. I think you got good advice from him. His opinion of series 1 engines probably comes from experience.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: MstangsBware is right. I guess that trying to hot-rod a series one is like someone wanting to hot rod a six cylinder Camaro. It really is a waste of money.

BWAH HA HA HAH!!! Whatever... Yep, a hot rod V6 in a Camaro is a waste of money... LOL. www.60degreeV6.com... Not to mention the turbo 3800s...

IROC get your pulley and just push the angst to the bottom of your soul and save it for later. There is nothing wrong with the Series I 3800SC... as long as you understand the limitations, which you obviously do... just do the mod and enjoy your Fiero. Not everyone has to do a 'me too' swap.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 04-28-2010).]

I just read the post you did while I was writing mine and now that I realize your goals, I agree with you. I can only assume that zzp thought this was your first step and wanted you to have a better foundation to build on.

Any business owner who doesn't value his customers will soon have none. As a customer, would you ask to do business with anyone knowing there is a good possibility you are NOT going to be treated with respect? Word of mouth is the most powerful marketing tool but if the word is negative it will destroy your busniess. Sounds like this guy is on the negative side and just doesn't know it yet. He may be right but since he presented it so tactfully.....who cares ?

[This message has been edited by Vernon8360 (edited 04-28-2010).]

Here is what happen to me:

I purchased about 500.00 of merchandise from them.
I got an email from them stating that they were verifying my credit card, I had asked them to mail me the items to my Job.
After almost 2 weeks, I called them to get a status on the items and no answer, I send an email and someone replys back :
" Billing address did not match shipping address. " there was nothing that stated that the billing and shipping adress had to be the same...
I got frustrated and email them telling them that I knew my credid card was charged and why did they not contact me...
They told me they did not have my ph # on file, I told them why did you not email me ?.
They have very poor cust service.
It took them almost a month to get me all the parts I ordered.
I was very frustrated on how bad their cust service was and though about cancelling my order...
The only reason I did not is because the prices are much better than my local dealer.

Have to agree on this. My shop had issues ordering from them. I had an easier time ordering once I figured out how to get someone on the phone, until you factor in that it took them 3 tries to send me the right gaskets for my intercooler. I started calling their place and hitting different extensions until I tripped on the magic extension for Tim. After I got him on the phone and argued that it shouldn't be necessary to "modify" their gaskets, he relented and sent me more appropriate ones. Overall their support is poor. I wish Thrasher and 3800pro offered a more competetive parts selection. For what it's worth Pam in shipping will go out of her way to help someone. The problem is getting your order to that point.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 04-28-2010).]

If thats the way he wants to talk to people that are wanting to buy stuff from him, I can assure you that i wont be buying anything from him.
adam

wow that is just unprofessional. There are far better ways to tell someone that their choice of engine might not be the best for big power, but as the op said its a daily driver for better mpg and a bit more performance not a drag car. I think ill go with a sbc or an lsx motor now as i don't want to deal with this kind of ignorance from a vendor.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 04-29-2010).]

Thanks for the kind words guys. +'s for you guys that didn't already have them.

If the Series 1 is not worth modding, why do they sell a pulley for it?

BTW, if you end up getting a smaller pulley from another vendor, such as: http://www.pulleyboys.com/s...yed-Pulley-p-39.html and want to get rid of the stock one, let me know.

quote Originally posted by IROCTAFIERO: Thanks for the kind words guys. +'s for you guys that didn't already have them.

While I don't support the 3800s (yet) if I ever do, you would never EVER get an email like that from me or anybody I work with.

Unless you asked if you should recycle your engine or throw it in the trash, I think how he emailed you was kind of mean.

Hmmm...
And I was considering a 3800.
Ahhh well....