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Vented Hoods...how effective are they in cooling?? by Rare87GT
Started on: 04-21-2010 09:00 PM
Replies: 30
Last post by: hyperv6 on 04-23-2010 02:58 PM
Rare87GT
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Report this Post04-21-2010 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTDirect Link to This Post
I have been thinking about getting a new hood for my Formula...keeping the old one obviously, but didn't know the effectiveness on having one. At this point, I would love something that works to keep my engine cooler, but I'm not sure if it is worth the hassle and the change in the look of my car. Is the Warber hood still available? And is Fiero Addiction's hood vents work about as good just have to do some body work obviously. If people aren't seeing a big enough change if any, then I dont feel like wasting $500-600 to get the body work and paint work done.

I'm looking for people that have done the hood vent mod and there opinions on how it has worked. Let me know your thoughts.


Thanks,
Amir

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Report this Post04-21-2010 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth88FormulaClick Here to visit Darth88Formula's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth88FormulaSend a Private Message to Darth88FormulaDirect Link to This Post
Hoods vents aren't about lowering Engine temps, they are used to vent the buildup of sir under the front end as speeds increase. Without the hood vents, speeds over 100 - 110 get very scary as the front end starts to feel "floaty". So if you don't plan on driving over that speed regularly, then I say it's not worth it, unless you really like the look of them.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post04-21-2010 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
I agree. When I installed my hood vent, the main purpose was for aerodynamics, not cooling.

However, I found that after venting my hood, the engine did in fact run cooler during highway cruising. Plus, the temperature dropped quicker when the car started moving after sitting idle (or going really slow) for a while. At any speed above about 30MPH, my temperature needle will park itself just past the 1/4 mark. This is with a 190°F thermostat and a properly functioning cooling system.

That said, here's the disclaimer: a stock Fiero should not overheat unless something isn't working properly. A hood vent should not be used as a band-aid for an improperly functioning cooling system.... blah-blah... you get the idea.
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Rare87GT
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Report this Post04-21-2010 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTDirect Link to This Post
Believe me, I'm not trying to band-aid any problems, I just like to keep the temp as cool as possible and in Wichita summer's it can get pretty hot and humid. And even with my aluminum 3 core, electric water pump and perma-cool fan, I would still like to see temps stay in the 180-185 even on a hot hot day. Now I have seen the fierosound idea of putting fender vent in the front area to duct the air out somehow and that it helps with the air flow to keep the front end stable.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-21-2010 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
It will help the air pressure build up but I see no change in temp.

It also makes a hell of a bug defector. At night you see a moth flying int he road ahead and as soon as he is over the bumper he is straight up in the air and over the roof. It was funny the first time I saw it happen. You just don't thing of that much air coming out till you see that.
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JimmyS
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Report this Post04-22-2010 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JimmySClick Here to visit JimmyS's HomePageClick Here to Email JimmySSend a Private Message to JimmySDirect Link to This Post
Here is a hood scoop option for you that can be installed with no fiberglass work. Its a staright bolt/stick on and is made functional just by cutting out the oval opening in the hood by the radiator area... http://www.fierofiberglass....ages/HoodScoops.html

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Rare87GT
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Report this Post04-22-2010 12:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTDirect Link to This Post
I want to keep the front end more stable, but am more interested to know if engine temps are lowered some from the vent. I mean it should, but I didn't know if anyone had tested the difference between having a hood vent and their temps to not having a vent and the temps. I know it should work in all reality, but does it really help from results.
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JimmyS
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Report this Post04-22-2010 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JimmySClick Here to visit JimmyS's HomePageClick Here to Email JimmySSend a Private Message to JimmySDirect Link to This Post
I don't scientifically know if it actually keeps the engine cooler but common sense tells me that improving the airflow through the radiator "can't hurt".

It seems to me that you are overthinking this decision. Doing it can not hurt the cooling and it is also a simple mod.
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jscott1
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Report this Post04-22-2010 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rare87GT:

I want to keep the front end more stable, but am more interested to know if engine temps are lowered some from the vent.


When I added firebird vents to my coupe I saw an immediate decrease in temperatures. Now I will admit that my radiator was marginal at the time, but the vents definitely helped.
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winger1955
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Report this Post04-22-2010 12:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for winger1955Click Here to Email winger1955Send a Private Message to winger1955Direct Link to This Post
i did a rich warber hood scoop on my 87gt. i found an insert fiberglass piece that was made by rich warber. it came with a video tape of rich doing a hood. i went to a local boneyard and picked up a hood. cut it with a roto-zip. nice tool. put in the fiberglass section and glassed it in. did this under my carport. i have never done any fiberglassing before. took the hood to my local bodyshop, so they could finish the fine sanding and new paint. i take my fiero to carshows all the time. i don"t now how to post pictures here,but i can email pictures to you . just pm me and leave your address. yes it helps the cooling. i use a 160 thermostat too. stays cool at red lights.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-22-2010 07:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
It may keep the temp down if you have a cooling issue but mine is cool to start so I saw no change.
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Pyrthian
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Report this Post04-22-2010 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
I had a bad radiator when I did mine. I knew it was bad. I would run very hot on the freeway.
then I did a hood vent. got on the freeway - and still ran just as hot.
being I had a bad radiator to start with, maybe not the best example - but - for me - not a noticable thing in helping cool.
but the handling improvement was even noticable to my wife in the passenger seat. the front felt SO MUCH more positive & stable.

there is a reason hood vents are standard items on race cars. it is a HUGE improvement for our light nosed cars.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post04-22-2010 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
If you are talking cooling, there are things to do first, which are more cost effective.

Header wrap on the stainless pipes under the deck. This will cut down under deck temps allot. Getting the 180* thermostat and 195* fan switch is another thing. These two mods will lower the temps noticably.

The extra venting for the hood really isn't required. That rad can handle a v8 easily. Like the guys above said though, venting helps high speed stability and eliminates headlight pop-ups.

Hope this helps.

Arn
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RACE
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Report this Post04-22-2010 09:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEDirect Link to This Post
If you really want to have greater cooling capacity buy a 4-core radiator fom Archie. If

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned an increased cabin temp if you run a hood vent wih the sunroof removed. Somebody will tell me that I am crazy but how could hot air traveling up the hood and windshield not get into the car?
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blackrams
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Report this Post04-22-2010 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

If you are talking cooling, there are things to do first, which are more cost effective.

Header wrap on the stainless pipes under the deck. This will cut down under deck temps allot. Getting the 180* thermostat and 195* fan switch is another thing. These two mods will lower the temps noticably.

The extra venting for the hood really isn't required. That rad can handle a v8 easily. Like the guys above said though, venting helps high speed stability and eliminates headlight pop-ups.

Hope this helps.

Arn


Hasn't anyone considered an oil cooler? If cooling is the issue, seems to me this is an option to be considered. Though, I do agree that the hood venting could help aerodynamics and very possibly cooling.

Ron
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blackrams
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Report this Post04-22-2010 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RACE:

If you really want to have greater cooling capacity buy a 4-core radiator fom Archie. If

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned an increased cabin temp if you run a hood vent wih the sunroof removed. Somebody will tell me that I am crazy but how could hot air traveling up the hood and windshield not get into the car?


Well, I won't suggest you're crazy but, I do think the effect you're talking about is greatly exaggerated. If you think about how much the air temperature is raised by passing through the radiator (only slightly significant IMO), then add in the air mixing with that already passing over the hood (very significant IMO) and the small amount of air that actually is allowed into the cabin through an open sun roof. I have to believe the difference would be minuscule. I sincerely doubt you'd notice any difference.

But, if you insist, you're nuts.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-22-2010).]

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Arns85GT
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Report this Post04-22-2010 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:


Hasn't anyone considered an oil cooler? If cooling is the issue, seems to me this is an option to be considered. Though, I do agree that the hood venting could help aerodynamics and very possibly cooling.

Ron


I run a Muncie tranny. The auto though, should be no different in this regard. In the position occupied by the transaxle I have not found my tranny to run hot. The heat does go right at the distributor and plenum, and as you know, heat rises. I have not heard of a Fiero needing a tranny cooler, although with a big horsepower application and running at a track I can see where it would be an advantage.

What I do see is the radiant heat from the crossover and the exhaust manifolds heating the plenum. Having all that radiant heat close to the heads and intake manifold automatically raises engine temps.

I went at it first with a lower thermostat setting, then with header wrap. Those two things made a big difference for me.

When I installed the carb, I wanted cooler air going into the air breather, and I already had a deck scoop, so I installed a scoop fan blowing down on the engine. Now that was huge. On a hot summer day, when I pull into a parking lot, the fan comes on, due to the loss of air movement. When the fan comes on it works for about a minute and cycles off. It is incredibly efficient.

I also recognize that the rear quarter panel intake vents are a good idea. I didn't do that, but I easily could have.

Hope this helps you assess the situation.

Arn

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blackrams
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Report this Post04-22-2010 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:


I run a Muncie tranny. The auto though, should be no different in this regard. In the position occupied by the transaxle I have not found my tranny to run hot. The heat does go right at the distributor and plenum, and as you know, heat rises. I have not heard of a Fiero needing a tranny cooler, although with a big horsepower application and running at a track I can see where it would be an advantage.

What I do see is the radiant heat from the crossover and the exhaust manifolds heating the plenum. Having all that radiant heat close to the heads and intake manifold automatically raises engine temps.

I went at it first with a lower thermostat setting, then with header wrap. Those two things made a big difference for me.

When I installed the carb, I wanted cooler air going into the air breather, and I already had a deck scoop, so I installed a scoop fan blowing down on the engine. Now that was huge. On a hot summer day, when I pull into a parking lot, the fan comes on, due to the loss of air movement. When the fan comes on it works for about a minute and cycles off. It is incredibly efficient.

I also recognize that the rear quarter panel intake vents are a good idea. I didn't do that, but I easily could have.

Hope this helps you assess the situation.

Arn


Arn,
I was speaking of an engine oil cooler not a transmission cooler but, the process would be the same. Doesn't matter what transmission is installed. If engine overheating is the issue, an oil cooler is a pretty simple installation. And, that rear quarter panel that is vented is a great place to put the engine oil cooler.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-22-2010).]

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gem1138
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Report this Post04-22-2010 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gem1138Click Here to Email gem1138Send a Private Message to gem1138Direct Link to This Post
I have preached this for years and doubt many listen but here it is again.

The area at the base of the windshield is one of very high pressure. It is a good place for an air intake and a terrible place to try to exhaust air.

That is why the interior air intake is there. That is why cowl induction systems take in air there to feed the engine in many muscle cars.

I’d not be surprised if those who have installed such “scoops” are actually bringing air in.

In the past I have compared those scoops to having wide tires on the rear of a front drive car. If you don’t know any better they might look cool. If you know better it looks, being polite, unwise.

To improve aerodynamics and cooling you want to exhaust the air to a low pressure area on the front deck. That would be towards the front of the car, away from the windshield.

These days Porsche exhausts the hot air ahead of the radiator it seems. Why? It’s a low pressure area.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post04-22-2010 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
I find it hard to believe you are getting that hot..

What torque converter are you running?
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Report this Post04-22-2010 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
Pop the front hood, air pressure will keep it from flying open if you don't hit any large bumps and you will see how your car will run with a vent. If your worried about it use a bungee to keep it from opening too far.
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Rare87GT
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Report this Post04-22-2010 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I find it hard to believe you are getting that hot..

What torque converter are you running?



I'm running a ZZP 2750 Torque converter. It's not really a big deal, but I just don't understand how this car can be running anywhere close to what it was before with this radiator. I have a drilled 180 t-stat. Electric water pump, fully bled system, 3 core champion radiator, and a 3000cfm perma-cool fan. I feel like this car should be running in the 175-180 range on a 70-75 degree day and around 180-185 on a 90-95 degree day, but maybe I'm after too good of a cooling system. I'm basing this off of my Aeroforce gauge telling me the digital temperature of the car. I know lots of people on here will say oh my car runs steady 180-190 on a hot day, but they are either going off of the Fiero dash or guessing, I can't imagine a lot of people using a digital gauge or reading off of it enough to know.
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Report this Post04-22-2010 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
Try a non drilled stat, or a stock 195 stat, imo.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post04-22-2010 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
There is a big difference as to where your sensor is with a digital gauge. If it is right beside the head, forinstance, the reading will be quite a bit higher than in the center of the intake manifold, or even the side of the block.

When I was testing my carb I used a remote unit and measured the carb float temp vs. the manifold, vs the head. I ended up putting a fibre heat spacer between the carb and the intake, and that took the carb temp down a whole bunch.

I think to get a good idea you need to run it until it is hot, park and let it idle. The car generally gets its hottest when idling. Then put your thermometer or sensor, whichever you use, on different parts of the engine and get some readings. If you have the 180* thermostat you should also have a lower fan switch than stock. I have a variable Derale fan management system and I dialed it in to what I wanted. Generally you want 195* switch with a 180* thermostat. If you don't have a 195* switch, and the car is building heat, it won't get relief until that switch turns on the fan.

Like I mentioned earlier, when my rad fan and scoop fan both come on, the car is down below 195* in about a minute. Hope this helps.

Arn
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Rare87GT
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Report this Post04-22-2010 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rare87GTClick Here to Email Rare87GTSend a Private Message to Rare87GTDirect Link to This Post
I have an Aeroforce gauge that reads all the different parameters for the 3800. As far as the Drilled t-stat. I guess I can put in a Non-Drilled 180 theromostat and see how it runs. I figured a drilled 180 would be better than a non-drilled, but maybe I'm crazy. As far as my fan, I have a switch that I run and the fan is always on when the car is running.

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 04-22-2010).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post04-23-2010 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTDirect Link to This Post
May have been addressed? But I did the hood extractor for the head light lifting issue. Now I don't have lifting head light covers at high speed and maybe I will have better high speed handling characteristics with the added vents under the headlight covers? Under car pressure is an issue with the Fiero and I did a few things to remedy that.

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[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-23-2010).]

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Report this Post04-23-2010 07:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
They are not required in a stock engined car. It gets damn hot here in summer and the car could use any helping hand it gets but it isn't the stock car that really requires it. The modified engine cars may require intakes as the radiator was only ever made for the stock engines but mating other engines to it is when it may not be suitable on its own. Your interior heater will take more heat out of the engine than a scoop will. If your finding your using your heater to cool the motor then you may require a scoop.
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Report this Post04-23-2010 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
There are quite a few 4.9 conversions with stock Fiero rads.

Arn
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post04-23-2010 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gem1138:

The area at the base of the windshield is one of ... high pressure. It is a good place for an air intake and a terrible place to try to exhaust air.
...
To improve aerodynamics and cooling you want to exhaust the air to a low pressure area on the front deck. That would be towards the front of the car, away from the windshield.



Exactly!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-03-2010).]

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FieroMonkey
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Report this Post04-23-2010 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeyClick Here to Email FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyDirect Link to This Post
I have heard that vents up front on the hood will stop the problem of headlight doors flying up at high speeds

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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-23-2010 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

I have heard that vents up front on the hood will stop the problem of headlight doors flying up at high speeds



They do.
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