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Preparing a Fiero for Bullrun...what would you do to your Fiero? by IwannaIRM
Started on: 04-19-2010 07:17 PM
Replies: 30
Last post by: batousai666 on 04-22-2010 10:26 AM
IwannaIRM
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Report this Post04-19-2010 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IwannaIRMClick Here to Email IwannaIRMSend a Private Message to IwannaIRMDirect Link to This Post
I know a lot of you watch the reality show Bullrun.

With all the available modifications available for the Fiero what would you do to your Fiero that was cost-effective, easily-repairable on the road or course, most hp for the buck and to make your ride competitive with the other beasts that are in the show?

And to make this more challenging, it all has to be done for under $20k. Granted, a majority of the work would have to be done by yourself. Don't forget spare parts in your budget since you are allowed to have two spare tires and spare parts that can be carried in your chase vehicle...no, no spare motors allowed.

So here's a basic list of mod areas to work in. Add to the list if I forgot something.

Wheels:
Suspension:
Brakes:
Engine:
Transmission:
Fuel Capacity: How and where.
Interior:
Exterior:
Lighting:
Steering:
Exhaust:
Cooling:
Battery Placement:

The Fiero must remain it's original length and width, no stretching of the chassis is allowed. Can't remove the trunk since you need that for spare parts and clothes. Car must be street legal (California emmisions not required) No GPS, Electronic Tuning Programs or Carputers. Stereo can be there but can not be used so no need to waste valuable space with amps and subs.

I think that's about it, so let's see everyone's ideas.
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Report this Post04-19-2010 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeDirect Link to This Post
I would probably go with a 3800SC / 4T65E-HD combo, with an extra fuel cell tucked in somewhere.

You'll most likely end up driving it on dirt. So the suspension shouldn't be too stiff. I also think lowering the suspension would be a bad idea. Same goes for aftermarket front air dams or low-overhang front ends.

Aside from that, drive it... A LOT... under lots of different conditions, and different surfaces. Make sure your co-driver does the same.

Oh, one more thing: replace the chassis with an IMSA tube-frame... LOL

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 04-19-2010).]

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Report this Post04-19-2010 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rolling ThunderClick Here to Email Rolling ThunderSend a Private Message to Rolling ThunderDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post04-19-2010 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhileroClick Here to Email PhileroSend a Private Message to PhileroDirect Link to This Post
I would LOVE to see a Fiero in the Bullrun show. I don't think speed is really too much of an issue, they had a VW Bus on the show and they did very well. Having a car that is more reliable and easy to repair is the key... well... that and compitent drivers with a good sense of direction and the ability to decode the show's hints to the next rally point. :P

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Report this Post04-19-2010 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosDirect Link to This Post
I would not put a fiero in that show...... To be honest I think it is a kinda dumb show!! basically just a scavenger hunt with sideshows filled with fireballs and explosions..... the only reason I even watch it is to see the lambo and other interesting cars on there but even that thing had a stupid paint job.... Maybe I missed the cool episodes? There was a show that had some racing solstices and the people actually RACED the cars..... that was at least interesting.... not to sound like a party pooper but I just do not get that show very much..... Some hot chicks on their tho!!!
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Report this Post04-19-2010 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
The cars that do well are cars that are overall good handling cars and reliable. I am a little surprised to see the Hemi-Cuda still in there and he might even win.

But as for a Fiero, since a lot of the challenges are on dirt, I would consider increasing the ground clearance, and using a coupe nose. That one challenge they did where they drove onto the trailer would have ripped off a GT nose. Definitely would not be rockin dubs, but some nice and light 17" alloy wheels.

I would use a new crate engine. No room for finicky 80s electronics and distributors. And definitely would need an extra fuel cell up front. I guess if you get a flat I don't know what the policy is, but make sure you have tires with lots of rubber.

Controversial, but I think you would really need power steering. On most of those challenges, the heavy Fiero steering would be a huge time killer in the slow speed maneuvers.
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Report this Post04-19-2010 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
air bag suspension. biggest engine possible prefferable the 632ci v8. extensive aerodynamics for best downforce. turbo chargers. large gas tank. natural breeze inductors in the body.

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Report this Post04-19-2010 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZDirect Link to This Post
Reliability is key. Fast only helps in the challenges. And having a lot of rare, expensive, hard-to-find parts that may break and not be available in the middle of nowhere will not help if it breaks down.

I'd say 3800 series II SC. Relatively bulletproof, very reliable, parts are fairly easy to find, decent gas mileage. If it's a new swap though, get it broken in. All new cooling system (radiator,cap, thermostat, hoses, etc.) would probably be a good idea, too.

Fuel cell up front will probably be needed, too. Fiero's range are VERY limited, and fuel stops can cost a LOT of time. Keep a huge assortment of tools in the trunk. Convert the brake system to Grand Am front and rear, Fiero brake parts are not easy to find or usually in stock at parts stores.
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Report this Post04-19-2010 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

Convert the brake system to Grand Am front and rear, Fiero brake parts are not easy to find or usually in stock at parts stores.


I was with you up until the brakes... I would go with Corvette front and back.
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Report this Post04-19-2010 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for twofatguysClick Here to Email twofatguysSend a Private Message to twofatguysDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


I was with you up until the brakes... I would go with Corvette front and back.


Why out of curiosity?

Wouldn't the grand am brakes have less parts, and be easier to replace in a pinch?

Brad
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Report this Post04-19-2010 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys:


Why out of curiosity?

Wouldn't the grand am brakes have less parts, and be easier to replace in a pinch?

Brad


For one, the Corvette 12" brakes probably provide twice the stopping power of the Grand Am, and two you don't have to rig up a parking brake. Any parts store is going to stock just as many Corvette parts as Grand Am, if not more.

Lastly, I'm going to be starting with an 88 and the grand am brakes would be a downgrade.
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Report this Post04-19-2010 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEDirect Link to This Post
I would use stock rims because of the challenges.

Fieros demand a lot from the driver to drive well. They will tire you out faster than a more comfortable, quieter and roomy car. Because of the length of the event a working cruise control and A/C would be essential. After a multi-day roadt rip last year I was beat. Neither system works on my car.

[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 04-19-2010).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post04-19-2010 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
I would leave it in the garage as it is and buy a more modern car that can deal with the challanges much better and easier.

Not to mention a larger car I could live in much easier.

After having several friends in the Cannon Ball 1 Lap of America several times I have learned of things you just don't consider till you are out on the road for a week non stop. .
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Report this Post04-19-2010 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jstrickerClick Here to Email jstrickerSend a Private Message to jstrickerDirect Link to This Post
Get a different car. Seriously.

The Fiero is not good off road in some of their challenges with any kind of suspension that will really handle.
The Fiero simply has too small of a gas tank. You're going to be stopping to fill up all the time.

I love the Fiero, but it's not a Bullrun car. What is?

I'd take about a 2003 or '04 Chevy/GMC Silverado 1500 ext cab short bed. Put a tonneau on the bed and hide a 90 gallon aux tank (I don't think that's illegal). Run either a 5.7 or 6.0 with a Whipple supercharger on it and put run-flat tires on it. With a good team you'd kick butt.

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Report this Post04-19-2010 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RACEClick Here to visit RACE's HomePageClick Here to Email RACESend a Private Message to RACEDirect Link to This Post
I think a WRX STI with a fuel cell would be a good Bullrun car if driven properly.

I can attest to the Fiero's handling off road. Been there, scared the **** out of myself. It did well. (Front and rear sway bars, KYBs and 14 inch tires).

[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 04-19-2010).]

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Report this Post04-20-2010 04:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86FASTBACKClick Here to Email GT86FASTBACKSend a Private Message to GT86FASTBACKDirect Link to This Post
I would LOVE to see the Hemi Cuda win. Both the dad and his girl can drive that car! Those toolbags with the lambo gotta go, same for the NSX. I think a Fiero would be awesome in the show, With a L67, 4T65E-HD and added fuel, it should do very very well. As long as the driver can keep up with the car. I love that show!! Been watching it ever sence the very first one came out, when a Black WS6 Trans Am won. Not to mention that a little fiero kicking but in the show would go a long way to bringing more people around to the world of our great little cars. :-)
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Report this Post04-20-2010 05:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SMTHGTSend a Private Message to SMTHGTDirect Link to This Post
Hey, you could always add the "chairs to the decklid mod" for the beer drinking after the days run, right..??
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Report this Post04-20-2010 07:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Direct Link to This Post
in reference to all the obstacals like the barrels, that plate glass and chained (looked like) fence that the Viper hated
i would suggest a "cow catcher" or push bar. agreed with the 3800 SC and suspention/brake upgrades.
but speed is not the main factor in my eyes. Navigation and challenges on dirt are my problems. but when me and my car are
playing in the dirt it seems alright. in stock form. any up grades would make it a contenter. the roads they use have speed limits
anyway so high hp is a waste. ask the guys in the Viper. they said bye,bye.
my .02. i want to be on that show with my 1987 Mera. would be a hoot.
good luck with this. i for one am very interested. are you actually going on the show????

dan

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 04-20-2010).]

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Report this Post04-20-2010 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SC CoupeClick Here to visit SC Coupe's HomePageClick Here to Email SC CoupeSend a Private Message to SC CoupeDirect Link to This Post
Trade it for a G8.
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Report this Post04-20-2010 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
yup - I 100% agree with those above: reliability & fuel range are key items. speed & handling are secondary.
just about every time someone "goes home" - it is due to reliability. the car failed them. next is just plain old driver error - usually due to panicing.
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Report this Post04-20-2010 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosaintSend a Private Message to nosaintDirect Link to This Post
quattro turbo Audi...winner
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Report this Post04-20-2010 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fosgatecavy98Send a Private Message to Fosgatecavy98Direct Link to This Post
Id simply use mine (running correctly) and with a few modifications


Turbo Ecotec in the high 200+ horsepower range, Stock gas tank or the 88 tank for the wee little bit of extra gas. At 40mpg and figure 8 useable gallons of gas 320 miles per tank isnt bad.

Brakes would be the simple grand am setup, reliable and more than enough to stop the car.

Suspension would be the Eibach + Koni setup, wheels and tires would be lightweight and a high performance tire around them.

Pretty simple to me! I am almost there anyways, just need to get in the running for it lol.
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Report this Post04-20-2010 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

I would leave it in the garage as it is and buy a more modern car that can deal with the challanges much better and easier. .


I agree that would be a better formula for success...but this being a Fiero forum I have to suggest a Fiero could be made competitive. Certainly not a stock one though. The NSX and Lambo are pretty small and low to the ground and those guys are still hanging in there.

With a Fuel cell up front, stock ride height or even RAISED suspension, 15" to 17" wheels, max, Coupe nose, POWER STEERING, cruise and a/c A Fiero can be a comfortable road car.

I drove 3,000 miles in my 88GT from Texas to Detroit and onto NY in 2008 and I was very comfortable. With the Bullrun it doesn't appear they have to transport their own gear, (I guess it rides on Goldberg's bus) so stowage space isn't really an issue.

If the Hemi Cuda can compete so can a custom Fiero.
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IwannaIRM
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Report this Post04-20-2010 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IwannaIRMClick Here to Email IwannaIRMSend a Private Message to IwannaIRMDirect Link to This Post
Ok, I understand there are newer and better cars out there than our beloved Fiero but this is not what the question was about.

I am only concerned what you would do to a "Fiero", I'm not concerned about parking my Fiero and buying a G8 or some other modern piece of metal. For the most part, the cars on Bullrun are newer, every day cars that people go out and buy, sell their personality and not the car and then do nothing creative to the car and then go out and beat it up. The exception? The few teams that bring in their loved restorations or resto-mods and race them.

With that in mind, I agree with most posters. Overall speed is the least of your concern, reliability and fuel economy so you spend less time stopped is key to winning the stages.

Power steering would be a must, the sluggish and muscle-steering in the Fiero wouldn't work on most of the courses. As for the dirt or off-road portions you would need to have more weight in the nose of the Fiero to eliminate that front-end slide/push. Maybe the addition of the PS rack and unit, relocating the battery to the front and a 5 gallon fuel cell up front would make that required weight adjustment.

Would definitily need to have working AC since they state they want to hear all of your conversations for broadcasts (this is where you sell your personallity or lack-there-of) so the windows are up the majority of the time. So, I think this would eliminate t-top and sunroof cars to cut down on wind noise and unecessary rattles.

The Fiero is not the most comfortable car to drive long distance but there are things that can be done to seats to make your ride more enjoyable. And if everyone hasn't noticed, I have yet to see a "fat" participant on the show. The one Lambo driver is husky and the Lexus chick was thick but that's about it.

Keep the ideas and suggestions coming, they are great to read.

And who knows, one day, a Fiero may be on the show. Not saying it would be me but someone may be adventurous enough to make the show.
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Report this Post04-20-2010 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rick 88Send a Private Message to Rick 88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IwannaIRM:

Ok, I understand there are newer and better cars out there than our beloved Fiero but this is not what the question was about.

I am only concerned what you would do to a "Fiero", I'm not concerned about parking my Fiero and buying a G8 or some other modern piece of metal. For the most part, the cars on Bullrun are newer, every day cars that people go out and buy, sell their personality and not the car and then do nothing creative to the car and then go out and beat it up. The exception? The few teams that bring in their loved restorations or resto-mods and race them.

With that in mind, I agree with most posters. Overall speed is the least of your concern, reliability and fuel economy so you spend less time stopped is key to winning the stages.

Power steering would be a must, the sluggish and muscle-steering in the Fiero wouldn't work on most of the courses. As for the dirt or off-road portions you would need to have more weight in the nose of the Fiero to eliminate that front-end slide/push. Maybe the addition of the PS rack and unit, relocating the battery to the front and a 5 gallon fuel cell up front would make that required weight adjustment.

Would definitily need to have working AC since they state they want to hear all of your conversations for broadcasts (this is where you sell your personallity or lack-there-of) so the windows are up the majority of the time. So, I think this would eliminate t-top and sunroof cars to cut down on wind noise and unecessary rattles.

The Fiero is not the most comfortable car to drive long distance but there are things that can be done to seats to make your ride more enjoyable. And if everyone hasn't noticed, I have yet to see a "fat" participant on the show. The one Lambo driver is husky and the Lexus chick was thick but that's about it.

Keep the ideas and suggestions coming, they are great to read.

And who knows, one day, a Fiero may be on the show. Not saying it would be me but someone may be adventurous enough to make the show.


You should contact Doug Chase. He built a rally Fiero years back and could give you ideas for suspension upgrades. I would go for the Ecotec swap for both handling and mileage. Additional lighting would also be a good idea for the night portions of the event.
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batousai666
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Report this Post04-20-2010 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fosgatecavy98:

Id simply use mine (running correctly) and with a few modifications


Turbo Ecotec in the high 200+ horsepower range, Stock gas tank or the 88 tank for the wee little bit of extra gas. At 40mpg and figure 8 useable gallons of gas 320 miles per tank isnt bad.

Brakes would be the simple grand am setup, reliable and more than enough to stop the car.

Suspension would be the Eibach + Koni setup, wheels and tires would be lightweight and a high performance tire around them.

Pretty simple to me! I am almost there anyways, just need to get in the running for it lol.



i agree. if the car will make it all the way. just a little MOD. away from stock and i would run it. more fuel and good suspention...
even with my V6, lets say brand new/refreshed, would be enough in power on PUBLIC roads to stay with the SuperCars...and alot more able to do dirt with the lower horsepower, for more controlled drifting. yes, i have been playing in a Quarry i just found. with added strength up front and good hybrid tires for street and dirt...ALL OVER IT.

if your consistant middle pack or so the challenges are more up to the others anyway and the aforementioned personality/ or lack of....
i just got cable after like 7 years these "new" shows are great to me...Top Gear, SuperCarsExposed, BullRun...its soo cool. seeing as i just got my car also.

even that Silver State Run looks do-able in a Fiero. i will not mention that the car has to be sound.we got $20,000 remember.
the 3800 or any V8 whatever. its up to the mechanic anyway. the nuts dont turn themselves....i stop here cuz i do not know Jack about
engines or mechanics i am considering school for both a career change and to fix my own cars. 2 birds 1 stone. and off unemployment.

but a stock, well maintained, ready for the long hall Fiero will do awesome in this BullRun chaos...i want to do it and it may take another year but i will do some of these things listed Silver State run, Cannonball i here is still blazing...hell i wanna do the Bandit Run...
i have a T.A. BUT, i will be in my other Pontiac, the Mera. its all good. i'll be the first "Kit Car" to win the Bullrun.
later
Dan- Mera X

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 04-20-2010).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-20-2010 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
Spend your money for reliability, not mods. Good brakes and shocks/struts are the most important. You dont need lotsa power mods. So far 2 people competed in VWs. With just those mods and the rest left pretty much stock in good condition the only other thing id do is add a larger gas tank or at least make room for storing extra gas.

As performance mods increase, reliabilty decreases.
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Report this Post04-20-2010 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Direct Link to This Post
soo true. for me in the BullRun.
But, from what i have read about the Silver State, the more money you pay the faster you get to go. soo if i had $20,000. i'd hit FIEROX AND MR.FERRARI up for their kind of "sweet lovin". then, sign up for some driving classes that day!!
one time, i asked FieroX that, if my big mouth could set it up.
what would he go up against in a race on Top Gear? see, i am very resourceful
anyway, he said BuggatiVeyron in a 1/4 mile. for the win...if this little fantasy of our's here were real i could win it, with their help, myself -die and be none the happier.
Dan

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 04-20-2010).]

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Report this Post04-20-2010 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
My bull run fiero would be.

85 coupe.
F23 manual trans from a 02 cavi - stg4 spec clutch
L26 3800 with mild turbo setup (400whp)

Probably have alot more fuel located up front. Some severe areo mods up front. Air/Ar intercooler. Grand am brakes up front, stock rear.

Could get 35-38mpg... would have a stock suspension with stock fiero rims, with mostly stock style fiero tires, probably a bit wider and a intense summer/rain compound.
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Report this Post04-21-2010 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
Silver State is a speed run....you need to go fast. Bullrunners seldom see over 70mph.....usually a 40 mph obstacle course. Braking and steering are the keys. Lookit what happened to lexus girls with the super modded Lexus. They couldnt get it to start or run half the time.
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batousai666
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From: MI usa
Registered: Jun 2009


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Report this Post04-22-2010 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Direct Link to This Post
ok i RE-watched me somemore BullRun i am up thru episode 7. And i have to say, most if not all the challenges have some sort of gravel or dirt road involved. and in the desert it seems like there may be alot of dirt "backroad shortcuts" that are not being used as much?? after more playing with dirt roads in the sticks, i still feel that a well maintained "stock" Fiero would do good in this race. just throw on some good all purpose tires, address the fuel issue, upgrade brakes and away we go. my biggest concern is the high desert Temps. and controlling that. anybody lookin to sponser a racer??
i will take some lessons, promise.
Dan

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 04-22-2010).]

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