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3.4 pr vs. 4.9 by Hockaday
Started on: 04-16-2010 09:00 PM
Replies: 14
Last post by: Hockaday on 04-17-2010 06:43 PM
Hockaday
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Report this Post04-16-2010 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
Ok first off let me apologize for so many engine vs engine questions etc...I've narrowed down my first engine swap choices to the 3.4 pr and the 4.9. I would rather do the 4.9 so I am leaning towards that...my question is...I have read that the 4.9 is bassicly bolt in ( with a modd'd fiero flywheel and clutch ) and the rest is the wireing...is this correct? if so wouldnt the 4.9 be just as an '' easy '' swap as the 3.4 push rod ( besides the ecu ./ wiring )? thanks.

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Report this Post04-16-2010 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero1KClick Here to Email Fiero1KSend a Private Message to Fiero1KDirect Link to This Post
If you have a 2.8, you need the intake, accessories, and so forth for the 3.4. You also need to drill new starter holes (Rodney Dickman has a jig for this). 7730 ECM is a good upgrade (from a Beretta 3.1 and more cars, very supported tuning-wise).

On the 4.9, all you need mounting wise is a single mount (fieroaddiction has them but I'm not sure if they're still in business) if you're using a manual.
If you use the very good 4-speed auto that comes with the 4.9, you will need an axle solution, and engine mounts. I would just search.

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Report this Post04-16-2010 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for smartaxelClick Here to visit smartaxel's HomePageClick Here to Email smartaxelSend a Private Message to smartaxelDirect Link to This Post
I have a 3.4. It is a rediculously easy "swap" . It uses the same mounts (prettymuch) as the Fiero 2.8, uses the same wiring harness, can run off the same ecm. It's almost like boring out the factory 2.8, since you use all the other Fiero parts.. A 4.9 (or 3800) (or V8 Archie350) is a whole other animal. I have done a 3800, have not done a 4.9, but from reading this forum, you are going to need to do the wiring harness, mounts, clutch, and get it lined up and working, then the tune, and whatever other stumbling blocks you come across. Personally, I would not group them together. I see a 3.4 more as a low cost upgrade, and I see a 4.9 as a "swap". If you are really comfortable with swapping, or have lots of car folks as friends to lean on, then toss in the 4.9. If this is your first "swap", and you're still learning, a 3.4 is fairly easy do-it-yourself.
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Report this Post04-16-2010 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero1KClick Here to Email Fiero1KSend a Private Message to Fiero1KDirect Link to This Post
If you have a Duke I would just go the 4.9 route (I plan to.......eventually), because you would have to get coolant hoses and a harness and 2.8 accessories. 4.9 is widely regarded as the easiest swap next to the 3.4.
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Hockaday
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Report this Post04-16-2010 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
yes i have a duke with 5 speed manual.will hav eto continue to read up. thank you for your advicee everyoen

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Report this Post04-16-2010 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero1KClick Here to Email Fiero1KSend a Private Message to Fiero1KDirect Link to This Post
Internet hi-five for 5-speed duke - I have one too!

Not like the duke part's a good thing.

Good luck!
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Report this Post04-16-2010 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
The 4.9 is more difficult then the 3.4 becuase you have to fab the exhaust. You could always pay someone to do this if you are not capable. The 3.4 can use the 2.8 fiero exhaust. There are several option of exhaust manifolds and routing. You can taylor it to your liking.

Engine mounts. You only need the center engine mount. Maybe fieroaddiction.com but more likely not. The only other place is WCF. The second side mount uses the 4.9 engine bracket, a poly or GM RWD trans mount, and a piece of angle iron welded or bolted to the cradle. Some also use a torque strut or some kind of brace for a 3rd mount. I have found no need so far on mine.

The 4.9 bolts right up to any fiero trans. You don't need to move the trans or anything to do with axels. This is how well it fits the engine bay. Flwheel needs to be made or bought. They run about 250 for a pre-made one. Or you can plug and re-drill the bolt holes to change to the 4.9 pattern. Use an 88 fiero or other neutrally balanced flywheel for this. Nothing real special there. The clutch is just a heavy duty fiero clutch. Nothing special there either. If you want to use the caddy 4 speed auto then you need mount brackets and axels.

Wiring is the most time consuming part. Its been throughly worked out though so all you really need to do is be able to read a wiring diagram and solder. There are always plenty of people to ask if you need help.

Fuel lines. These need to be either custom made or put together with adapters. Part numbers for the fittings are out there if you want a simple bolt on job. Its not cheap that way though. There are much cheaper ways in fact custom lines are usually about the same price. WAY less if you can do it yourself.

Coolant hoses. These need to be fitted. Not much to it. You can use a mixture of fiero and 4.9 hoses to do the job. You also need to figure on either an inline coolant filler or modified fiero filler neck. This will also determine if you are using a fiero or 4.9 t-stat.

Throttle cable. Use an 87-88 2.5 fiero cable. Works fine.

Starter. For clearance with a fiero manual trans you either have to use an Allante starter or trim the bellhousing for the 4.9 starter to fit. I recommend the Allante starter. Much easier and makes transmission changes easier in the future. Costs more though.

Belt routing. First eliminate the stock 4.9 steering pump/tensioner. This must be done since it interferes with the passenger side deck hinge bracket (you dont need a powersteering pump anyway). Then you can either modify the alternator bracket to create an adjustment or build a mounting bracket for a tensioner. The 3.4 camaro tensioner is usually used. Either way you also have to add an idler pully near the end of the waterpump.

Modify the Tach and add a speed signal circuit to make the tach and speedo function properly. This actually much easier then it sounds.

Oil cooler. Run one or not its your choice. All 4.9's had them from the factory but it has been proven several times that you don't actually need one for this swap.

That about covers it. These are also the basics for most any engine swap except the 3.4.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-16-2010).]

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Hockaday
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Report this Post04-16-2010 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
thank you so much for that reply that is brilliant...i guess i have once more question. when you say exhaust you mean the system aka plumbing right? or do you include the exhaust manifold as well? sorry i'm sure its a pretty common thing...just trying to research every little fact about this swap etc before buying anything etc. thank you for all your help guys!

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Hockaday
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Report this Post04-16-2010 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post

Hockaday

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quick question.....are has anyone carbed this engine? j/w
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Report this Post04-16-2010 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

thank you so much for that reply that is brilliant...i guess i have once more question. when you say exhaust you mean the system aka plumbing right? or do you include the exhaust manifold as well? sorry i'm sure its a pretty common thing...just trying to research every little fact about this swap etc before buying anything etc. thank you for all your help guys!



Exhaust plumbing. Sorry I could have been more specific. There are several exhaust manifolds to choose from so exhaust routing is very open to whatever you need or want. With or without a cat, true dual, stock fiero routing, keep trunk, lose trunk, ect. Lots of variances here between swaps.

 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

quick question.....are has anyone carbed this engine? j/w


Yes. I hear a 500cfm is perfect. Its not really easier then just using the factory FI though so its rarely done. The
4.9 throttle body sits right on top of motor so its an easy bolt on. The difficulty comes in the needed distributor modification needed. Have to loose the computer controlled ignition.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-16-2010).]

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Report this Post04-17-2010 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for F355spiderClick Here to Email F355spiderSend a Private Message to F355spiderDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

yes i have a duke with 5 speed manual.will hav eto continue to read up. thank you for your advicee everyoen


Then I would say 4.9 Injection Technology has a complete Plug and play harness for the 4.9 to Fiero and just use the stock Cady ECM. I bought it for my swap and the car ran like a dream. It was a 4.9 5 speed I loved it.
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Report this Post04-17-2010 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FastFierosClick Here to visit FastFieros's HomePageClick Here to Email FastFierosSend a Private Message to FastFierosDirect Link to This Post
I dont know what your scope was to narrow down to 3.4 or the 4.9, but I dont like either, and I personally did 50 plus 3.2 and 3.4 configrations back in the late 90's. I have only drove and tuned on 5 4.9 Fieros and did not like any of them.

If it is money factor, get a L36 from a GRand Prix GT 99-03.. There are low low mile engines all around every state for like $300. Low miles as in 30k or less. At 205HP on the stock intake, and about 225 on the modified ZZP intake, we are talking a way better quality install and performance factor for the $ for $ ratio. Just something to think about.

http://www.fastfieros.com
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Hockaday
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Report this Post04-17-2010 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
i thought the 3800s ( i'm assuming i have the right engine in minmd ) were alot more complicated install then the 3.4 or 4.9
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katatak
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Report this Post04-17-2010 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakDirect Link to This Post
Don't be fooled by anyone! Any swap other than stock for stock or even to the 3.4 can be complicated - it all depends on your experience. Each one has it's "uh oh", "what have I done" moments. Decide on what you want the car to do, what you are going to use it for and then decide what motor you want.

Good Luck.

Pat

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Hockaday
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Report this Post04-17-2010 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
Well to be honest the engine I want is a northstar sbc or someother v8 I don't know about. Cash is the problem ATM...I'll probably end up just waiti g and doing only one swap just tired of the duke lol 
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