Hey all,

I have been reading and researching different engine choices for the Fiero. My 2.8L is getting a bit tired (losing compression, less pickup, etc) and I have been weighing options from a stock replacement to something far more exotic like a V6 or 8 swap.

I do have some skills and some assistance as far as a good mechanic with some fabrication skills (family member) and equipment (garage, lift, etc) but going to a non- 60- degree engine is probably going to require me to have someone else do the swap. My skills are not that good, and my help is not going to have the time to devote to something much more involved than a stock fit replacement.

So I was wondering what the general going rate is for having a specialty shop do the work aside from the cost of the engine itself. I am thinking more along the lines of the labor cost involved. Anyone with knowledge of a ballpark figure out there?

Thx!

For a 3800, I would say that you would spend anywhere between $2500-$4500 on top of the engine and trans for a swap by any of the regular vendors on here.

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'88 GT- 3800 Turbo Best E.T.- 11.654 Best MPH-120.65
gmtuners.com -Build info

For a SBC V8 your looking at around $5K to $8K depending on what Kit you put on .... I would suggest a Cadillac 4.9L you would be looking in the $2K - $3K range its almost a direct bolt on ...

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Shaved Lambo Doors
http://www.blackwidowfiero.com

Check out WCF here: http://www.westcoastfiero.c...conversion_info.html

quote I do have some skills and some assistance as far as a good mechanic with some fabrication skills (family member) and equipment (garage, lift, etc) but going to a non- 60- degree engine is probably going to require me to have someone else do the swap

You can do a just about any motor swap for less than 1000 bucks if you do labor yourself.

For any engine conversion find someone who has a history of Fiero swaps. There are many mechanics who say they can do them, but haven't done them in the past and run into many "unexpected" problems. The Fiero Factory has done many 4.9 conversions. Sinister Performance has done many 3800 SC swaps. Since you are located in upstate NY, Sinster is the closest as he is in Ft Wayne, In.

It all depends on what kind of engine you want..

If you don't mind crossing the border drop by and I can show you exactly what is involved in an engine swap like the 3800SC or if you want me to build it for you I charge $2,500 for all the labour and supply all the needed brackets and mounts. Dan

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http://www.photosled.com/showgallery.php/cat/631

www.hausofguru.com
in NJ

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1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT 3800s/c, 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com
www.hausofguru.com

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You can do a just about any motor swap for less than 1000 bucks if you do labor yourself.

I guess that's without buying too many new parts at all for your swap? Even if you can do all the work yourself, including welding, the cost of new parts adds up fast.

Most people would clean up/paint the engine, replace all gaskets (who wants to change a leaking oil pan gasket/valve cover AFTER the engine is in the car?), tune up parts (plugs, wires, thermostat etc), maybe a new water pump if you're not sure of its condition, DEFINITELY a new clutch and pressure plate. In addition, you need to build some kind of exhaust - a minimum would be a Y-pipe from manifolds to stock exhaust.

I guess if you got the engine for $500 and a clutch for $300, you'd have $200 for misc. "small bits". So I guess that may be possible.

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My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

Doing a 4.9 swap now. I'm thinking I'll have around 1200.00 to 1500.00 in it when done. Maybe less if I can do my own wiring harness and exhaust? So far, I have the motor/trans, mounted to a spare cradle and the axles ready to go - 500.00 so far.

Pat

Having paid $11,000 for what was essentially "an education" on my first 2.0 turbo swap, I have now learned what I needed to know and will be completing my second one here soon for roughly $1500. However, that's doing all of the labor and fabrication myself.

quote Originally posted by fierosound: I guess that's without buying too many new parts at all for your swap? Even if you can do all the work yourself, including welding, the cost of new parts adds up fast. Most people would clean up/paint the engine, replace all gaskets (who wants to change a leaking oil pan gasket/valve cover AFTER the engine is in the car?), tune up parts (plugs, wires, thermostat etc), maybe a new water pump if you're not sure of its condition, DEFINITELY a new clutch and pressure plate. In addition, you need to build some kind of exhaust - a minimum would be a Y-pipe from manifolds to stock exhaust. I guess if you got the engine for $500 and a clutch for $300, you'd have $200 for misc. "small bits". So I guess that may be possible.

If you "cut corners", you can easily start tossing the "it costs too much" excuses out the window.

In reality, a $200 motor is going to last as long, and perform as well as a low mile $2000 motor, some just do not understand this and feel that the only way to do it right is by spending tons of money on one.

Secondly, painting and cleaning doesnt really take alot of extra money, it just takes time and lots of effort.

tune up parts are not a real need.. many times on junkyard motors you will find fresh wires (plugs are $9 anyway), other things are much more logical to replace after they break.

Gaskets are one thing, but this can be easily offset by "skimping" on a motor more.

I don't think I have ever kept record of cost?
My Twin Cam 3.5 Short Star Fiero cost total at around $12,000. That is with MANY mods like 12' brakes power steering wheels paint and so-forth. I took that engine and tranny and entire electrical system out and installed an LS4 for about $3,000? But I did all the work myself. Keep in mind that that price is for the engine and tranny ONLY, not the mods for the electronics and dash. The drive train was about $2,000 with the wire harness ( I think I got a good deal) and I had to spend about $1,000 in parts to get it to run.
In my opinion, I have seen some poor swaps and some out standing swaps. I have heard some cheap estimates and VERY high cost swaps. But I believe that you get what you pay for.
First decide what you will use the car for and get the engine that best fits that need. I have done two V8's, one 4.9 and one 5.3 LS4. The 4.9 is nowhere close to the power of the LS4 but the cost of the LS4 was MUCH higher than the 4.9. They both have good and bad.
They both have there own "strengths" and the same is true for just about any swap.
You probably should not ask "how much does it cost?" first. You should ask your self "Do I want a good swap, great swap or.....some thing different?" "will I show this car?" "will I race this car?" "do I want great economy or just OK economy?" "who will work on the car after the swap, will it be harder to work on?" But most important to any swapper is "Why do I even want a swap?" This question may sound stupid, but it is a loaded question because you should have some idea of how you want to drive the car and what engine will best suit your needs.

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Thanks for all the helpful info everyone! It all gives me a good idea of the costs involved. It leaves me a lot to think about.

Akursed, your setup looks terrific!

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I don't think I have ever kept record of cost? My Twin Cam 3.5 Short Star Fiero cost total at around $12,000. That is with MANY mods like 12' brakes power steering wheels paint and so-forth. I took that engine and tranny and entire electrical system out and installed an LS4 for about $3,000? But I did all the work myself. Keep in mind that that price is for the engine and tranny ONLY, not the mods for the electronics and dash. The drive train was about $2,000 with the wire harness ( I think I got a good deal) and I had to spend about $1,000 in parts to get it to run. In my opinion, I have seen some poor swaps and some out standing swaps. I have heard some cheap estimates and VERY high cost swaps. But I believe that you get what you pay for. First decide what you will use the car for and get the engine that best fits that need. I have done two V8's, one 4.9 and one 5.3 LS4. The 4.9 is nowhere close to the power of the LS4 but the cost of the LS4 was MUCH higher than the 4.9. They both have good and bad. They both have there own "strengths" and the same is true for just about any swap. You probably should not ask "how much does it cost?" first. You should ask your self "Do I want a good swap, great swap or.....some thing different?" "will I show this car?" "will I race this car?" "do I want great economy or just OK economy?" "who will work on the car after the swap, will it be harder to work on?" But most important to any swapper is "Why do I even want a swap?" This question may sound stupid, but it is a loaded question because you should have some idea of how you want to drive the car and what engine will best suit your needs.

Lots of good points to think about Rick too. In general, I would like something that is going to offer a significant increase in power for daily use, without putting in something too wild. My intention was not to take the car racing, but just increase my own satisfaction in the performance. I was thinking something anywhere in the 200-250 HP range would be good. The 4.9L would fit the lower end here, with the 3800 SC's reaching the higher end. I was also thinking a middle of the road chevy small block would generally fit in this range too.

I also see what you mean by not shopping for a particular swap based on cost, and instead go for what I decide is the best fit. I agree, that is the best way to do it. I just wanted an idea on the costs to see if I still felt I wanted to make that kind of investment.

I have a lot more reading and thought to put into this!

Thanks again for everyone's input!

OK, that makes it simple.
The 4.9 or 3800SC, both are good swaps. The 4.9 has the V8 look and sound for that added right of passage into muscle car territory.
The 3800SC is a great swap right out of the box and a monster with bolt on's.
The V6 has LOTS of after market but the V8 does not. GM has made the 3800SC for a long time and is a "modern" engine.

If it were me in your shoes, I would only have one question. "Do I want a V8 sound or a V6 sound?" Given what you want an engine swap for, both engines will work for you. And both can be done at a "reasonable price".

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 02-15-2010).]

There is a guy that does 3800 swaps in Ontario, Canada. I think he's in London, but I'm not sure. I met him at the SOFA show a few years ago, I also saw some of his work and it looked like a clean instal. His forum name is PBJ.

Vin

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Vin

MAFOA Webmaster
1987 Fiero GT, Medium Red Mettalic, Lowered
2008 Solstice GXP, Aggressive
2008 G8 GT, Magnetic Grey Mettalic

1988 - 2006 - The 18 year dry spell between 2-seat Pontiac Excitement was finally over... RIP Pontiac.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: If you "cut corners", you can easily start tossing the "it costs too much" excuses out the window. In reality, a $200 motor is going to last as long, and perform as well as a low mile $2000 motor, some just do not understand this and feel that the only way to do it right is by spending tons of money on one. Secondly, painting and cleaning doesnt really take alot of extra money, it just takes time and lots of effort. tune up parts are not a real need.. many times on junkyard motors you will find fresh wires (plugs are $9 anyway), other things are much more logical to replace after they break. Gaskets are one thing, but this can be easily offset by "skimping" on a motor more.

When i bought my 3.4 P/R from a local club member, It was a junkyard motor with unknown miles. I started tearing it down, and it was pretty worn! Main and rod bearings were toast, the cam had flat spots, and cylinder walls needed a rebore. Ended up costing me $1,800 to rebuild it. I don't think it would have run well if I didn't do anything to it. I paid $100 for it, and it definitely wouldn't have lasted as long as it will now.
Just my experience.

quote Originally posted by mattwa: When i bought my 3.4 P/R from a local club member, It was a junkyard motor with unknown miles. I started tearing it down, and it was pretty worn! Main and rod bearings were toast, the cam had flat spots, and cylinder walls needed a rebore. Ended up costing me $1,800 to rebuild it. I don't think it would have run well if I didn't do anything to it. I paid $100 for it, and it definitely wouldn't have lasted as long as it will now. Just my experience.

Motors that come from situations like that are nothing like a junkyard pulling a motor from a high mileage car that got rear ended.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Motors that come from situations like that are nothing like a junkyard pulling a motor from a high mileage car that got rear ended.

Yea, the motor must have been the reason the car was junked then. I'm not totally sure, since I did not see the car the engine came from.

If you do decide to have your swap done by someone, you need to get on their list ASAP. Your wait time could be a year or more as these people are booked WAY out in advance.

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-Chris
'85 V6 SE 4sp (SOLD)
'88 GT Auto (fun car)
'03 Sentra SE-R Spec V (Daily driver)

i just got a 3800 engine for $100. wiring harness and ECM and everything.
heard it run and everything before it was removed from the car. engine runs great.
you just find wicked deals around sometimes
the flywheel will cost more then the engine

i can see someone doing a engine swap for under $1000 easy. even cheaper if you have friends who can get you great discounts or free even
(how i got a car with a 3800 for $100)

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: OK, that makes it simple. The 4.9 or 3800SC, both are good swaps. The 4.9 has the V8 look and sound for that added right of passage into muscle car territory. The 3800SC is a great swap right out of the box and a monster with bolt on's. The V6 has LOTS of after market but the V8 does not. GM has made the 3800SC for a long time and is a "modern" engine. If it were me in your shoes, I would only have one question. "Do I want a V8 sound or a V6 sound?" Given what you want an engine swap for, both engines will work for you. And both can be done at a "reasonable price".

Ok, thanks for the thoughts! Aftermarket support is probably not a big deal, although I have to say that some of the modified 3800's on this site are extremely impressive!