OK so this is a stupid question but what's a CJB T-Top car? is CJB factory code for a T-Top car and if the car isn't a CJB but has T-Tops, they were added on by somebody along the way....? saw a 88 formula with T-Tops but not CJB?

t-tops did not happen at the gm factory. the dealerships sent them( fiero's) to an out side copany .

C&C produced aftermarket T-Tops for the Fiero. These were the non CJB type. In 1988, there was a factory option for T-Tops that was a slightly different design. These were the CJB style T-Tops. There are a number of threads discussing the differences, so a search may help you learn a bit more about the different varities.

All t-tops were made by Cars and Concepts, but CJB were "factory authorized" t-tops. CJB t-top cars were sold new with the t-tops in place. Others were added after the car was sold, some by dealers or shops, and some by private individuals.

There are 88's that were installed without the factory codes just as there are 84-87 cars. Dealers would take a car off the lot and send it to a C & C installer. Some even went right to C & C and were installed by the same people who did the CJB cars. These were accepted as a dealer installed option by Pontiac so the warranties were still in effect.

Other than the seals and the 3 letter RPO code they are the same parts. All Pontiac did was just what the dealers did and send them out to install them so they could get a cut of the money the dealers were making.

Also as time goes on there have been a fair share of owner installed tops too now.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Also as time goes on there have been a fair share of owner installed tops too now.

true... you can even have owner installed tops that came from a CJB car but the recipient car obviously won't have the CJB code.

Asked and answered, lets kill this thread before it moves into the "my car is better than your car, cuz its a CJB" or "CJB cars suck, I have a TTOP but is not a CJB"


Rob

quote Originally posted by jscott1: true... you can even have owner installed tops that came from a CJB car but the recipient car obviously won't have the CJB code.

That was the point of my statment since owners do not install RPO codes.

I agree lets kill this at this point since there is nothing more productive to add to this. We answered his questions.

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: Asked and answered, lets kill this thread before it moves into the "my car is better than your car, cuz its a CJB" or "CJB cars suck, I have a TTOP but is not a CJB" Rob

...well mine sucks because it does not have t-tops - anyone want to sell me a set (don't really care which version)??

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-31-2010).]

These T-top "kits" seem to be getting less expensive all the time. Back when I bought mine, they were going for $900+ and lately I have seen them in the Mall in the $400 range. Must be the economy.

I too have noticed the pices dropping but buyer beware the quality of what is for sale has also dropped.

Many times these kits are not in good condition. Gasket torn, plasitc pillar caps broken and often the glass is scratched and damaged.
Even worse some are missing parts that could leave you short of a install.
Make sure of the condition and that all the parts are there.

Note we already know the gaskets are hard to find but very clean glass will be the next issue. There is no way to sub out the tops unless you have plexiglass but or fiber glass. Only a few people have a NOS set yet. Few will part witth them since we are all one drop away from going topless. This is why I coined the T top death grip when removing the top.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Only a few people have a NOS set yet. Few will part witth them since we are all one drop away from going topless. This is why I coined the T top death grip when removing the top.

LOL! I independently developed my own "death grip" when I handle mine as well. And I have a spare set that I wouldn't sell at any price.

So Pontiac assembled the car, put the RPO code on it and then sent it out to C&C?

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: This is why I coined the T top death grip when removing the top.

So, So true. I too have the "Death Grip" on mine when I remove them..

Rob

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88 Coupe, TTOP, 3.4 DOHC and a GT clip

quote Originally posted by fierocarparts: So Pontiac assembled the car, put the RPO code on it and then sent it out to C&C?

Yes

They sent the cars to the same place that did many of the conversions on the earlier cars. The weather strip was changed. Some feel it seals better and I also think the quality and one less step on installation also were at play.

The earlier cars were considered Dealer installed options. As the dealers could send the cars out and sell them as new with a full warranty with Pontiac's blessing.

C & C had tried to sell Pontiac on offering these as far back as 1983 when they took a pilot car and installed a top in it because Pontiac said it could not be done with the space frame as it was. Well it did fit and C & C tried each year to offer these through Pontiac only getting it approved in 87 for the 88 as a factory option.

Pontiac sent them to the installer like many companies did the limited convertibles that were offered.

I suspect the fact the dealers were making money on this and Pontiac was not gave Pontiac the Idea of making it a RPO to get a cut of the action and offer a option that was getting popular that was already sorted out.

Other approved C & C installers around the country did the install on the cars outside the Michigan Great lakes area. Most did as good or better work than C & C did on the CJB cars since often on installer did it and was not rushed per production requirements. Some I am sure some were worse due to a less than quality installed in some cases.

Once the 88 was dropped C & C continued to sell parts to the industry and installed their last T top in the early 90's for a Customer at the national Fiero meet at the Pontiac headquarters. Not long after C& C was sold off and the owner now operates a marketing company for performance companies. I see him at work once in a great while and also spent time taking with him. He was incharge of this program from start to finish. He did not own C & C when he started the Fiero project but in the end bought out the T top divison.

According to him there are a lot of T tops if you count the CJB and the Dealer installed cars. Also he said often people forget the kits that were just sold to people that are never counted as installed C & C units. Many found their way to kit cars and body converstions people forget about. I know I have seen many a Ferrari kits with one over the years.

Some disagree on the number he has quoted but since he owned the company and was incharge of it I would have to give him some credit to have some first hand knowledge on the topic.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Some disagree on the number he has quoted but since he owned the company and was in charge of it I would have to give him some credit to have some first hand knowledge on the topic.

So what is his number?

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: So what is his number?

I have it written down some where. If I remember correctly he told me if I recall there were something like over 7000 kits sold total. Rick if you see this correct me if you like as he told you the same thing if I remember.

Keep in mind this also covers the kits that were also sold and used for parts too so the number of cars will be less. Also not all were in Fiero's some were used in other cars and kits based on Fiero's. Some like to argue there was never that many but since he gave me that number and I know several others here I would have to go with his number till someone could prove different. The last time it was brought up it created a argument.

All I can say it came from the man who owned C & C so take it or leave it.

T tops may not be on ever FIero but it seems like if you want one you can find one so the number sound realistic.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 02-01-2010).]

We need a registry of non-CJB t-tops to keep track of this. I have one.

I have two non CJB cars, plus extra set of glass panels and spare trim pieces, seals, etc. ( not interested in selling any items. )

quote Originally posted by TopNotch: We need a registry of non-CJB t-tops to keep track of this. I have one.

I will have to dig around and see if I can find my note. I keep tabs on the Fiero crowd but I have lost some interest in my car for a while. I do this every so often. In 25 years other things come up and burn out. Not to mention other toys.

I always thought when they go and spend so much time on the CJB cars they could get more interest and support if they included all the t top cars. There are a lot more non CJB cars than there were CJB cars. I think the history of the T top was interesting when the C & C owner told me the story from 1983 threw the end. The CJB was only the second to last chapter of the whole story.

TopNotch, I keep the 88 Database, which is not exactly a registry since I don't ask for owner info, but more a database of info on all the 88s, including non-CJB cars. I happen to own one too, and altogether there are about 90 in the Database right now. If you want to send me your info (assuming it's an 88), I'd appreciate the following info: Vin, Factory Interior and Exterior colors (and rims for GTs and FO), Tranny type, Seat types for GTs (Cloth, Cloth with Lumbar, Leather), roof types (non -cjb ttops for you of course). Any extra info is gravy and no owner info need be given.

John
Jwwillhoff at aol or pm me here.

PM sent.

quote Originally posted by rourke_87_T-Top: I am curious if any other members have a T-Top kit, if so the kit number, if there is sequence. mine kit number is # 087265