Buddy of mine is trying hard to get me into racing for fun again. I need to stay cheap, but want to be fast on the track. I am trying to decide between getting a small econobox like a Aveo and stripping it out, slapping a turbo on the little engine and a few fabricated suspension changes or to go with a fiero for a track car.

Can a fiero, like a SE notchback stripped out with a 2.8 +a small turbo be a fast track car? I'm taking stripping the entire interior and making a gauge pod, single light race seat, roll cage, replace glass with plexi, everything I can do to reduce weight. this car will not be road legal after I am done.

How much can you strip out of the car in weight? also is the 5 speed lighter than the 4 speed? will it matter between the two on the track (between a 4spd and a 5 spd?) I'll be racing mostly on squiggly tracks like Waterford, some rallys, and almost no turn left festivals.

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If you are just beginning,and on a budget,I would concentrate on making the car as simple and reliable as possible. Speed will always come later as experience and track time grow. I can lap my Spec Miata(107RWHP), faster than a novice in a Corvette just due to driving the car better and not due to horsepower.
That said, I would strongly suggest NOT going the turbo route for a road race car as the costs involved building and developing are much higher than you think. I would build up a good 3.1-3.4 pushrod motor with a Getrag 5 speed (prefer the Achieva SCX/Fiero hybred trans for ratios,but is a complicated swap/project for the beginner) and a big radiator. I had a very highly prepped '88 Prod-type racecar(custon uprights/struts,big brakes,etc...) and stripped out with cage fuel weighed in at 2600# with my weight in the driver's seat(190#). Use a glass windshield, you want to keep the wipers for track days.
I would guess you are looking at a budget in the $7-10,000 range to build a safe,reliable caged track day car from scratch by the time drivetrain,cooling.seating/safety,brakes and body/chassis issues are worked out. That is doing most of the work yourself. You may well be better off buying a finished car that someone else took the hit on building and now is selling. I know you may be set on a Fiero,but there are many Miatas and Hondas out there for sale that make great track day cars(and they are affordable to run and maintain!!). I see this scenario all the time in my position as the Race Tech director for NASA Northeast, as we put on over 30 track events per season. So I feel can give some feedback as to what makes a "good" track day toy.

If you are wanting to do racing on the cheap, check out 24 hours of lemons, http://24hoursoflemons.com/. There are some other versions that have similar rules. If you want to get into racing on a small budget this is the best way to go. Once you spread the cost across you and 4 or 5 of your friends then it really is minimal for each person.

it really is up to the rules of series you want to race in

and, it is hard to beat a mustang for "fast + cheap"

If you plan on doing anything but track days, I would choose a class first. Build a car to be compeditive in that class. ITA or ITB would be an excellent start (unless Dave D. tells you differently). Dave knows much more than me for sure. Anyway, again, consider the class very carefully unless it is purely a trackday car. Then the rules and guidelines will be clearly defined.

Mostly a trackday car. from what I have seen most people race their daily driver, so if I take a DD and strip it out plus make it safer with a rollcage I'll be a step further down the road. I'd like to stay with RWD simply because it's what I used to race, I never really did any racing of any type in a FWD car. Plus my past was really only dirt ovals in cars that looked like they belonged in a demolition derby.

I'm not set on a fiero as a car, It's simply something I know very well and can get parts for easily, I figure it cuts down the learning curve a bit.

If you're used to working on fieros, then that's definitely a plus for using one. Other than that, for a trackday toy, just go with what you want to drive. I'm hoping to do at least a couple of trackdays in the future and although a volvo would be cheaper and could probably be made to be faster around the track at a relatively low cost, I'd rather go with the Fiero simply because

For just trackdays, I would have to say the Miata would be the best bang for the buck. Here's my reasons:

1. the 205/50-15 rubber is one of the most popular tires used in racing. You can find "take-offs" from serious racers and still get most of a season from them for $30-50 each.Check for brands like the Toyo RA1 or Kumho 710
2. Brakes. Rotors are $20 each and track pads(Hawk Blues in front and Blacks in rear) are $119 and 90 respectively( and they go for half a season due to the car's light weight and lack of use)
3.Cheap suspension. Put a Spec. Miata suspension kit on it and be able to drive to the track and still handle great on a tight budget.
4. Driveline reliability. The engines were originally designed as a turbo engine,so they are extremely overbuilt and don't make enough power to hurt themselves. And if you do, a takeout JDM engine costs me $600 with less than 60k mi on it.
5. A car can be built for <$6000. (donor cars go @$1500 to $2000,susp. kit $1200,cage (can be the most expensive part), search for deals on wheels and tires, freshen mechanicals(brakes,cooling,belts/hoses,etc...).I built my first Spec Miata for a little over $5000,including donor car.

and maybe almost as important...........
6. Fuel mileage!!! I can practice Fri., race Sat and Sun on less than 20gals gas(longer tracks can be a little more)for the whole weekend, and she runs on regular pump gas!!!

[This message has been edited by Dave Deerson (edited 01-25-2010).]

could get a monster Miata. could be more fun :P

quote Originally posted by joshh44: could get a monster Miata. could be more fun :P

Seen them at some of our track days..................not too impressed by them at all. They couldn't turn to save their lives. Too much weight up front and ruined the chassis balance.I would take my Miata over many cars for a fun track toy........well maybe not my IMSA car, but as far as needed attention during the weekend the Miata wins hands down. The IMSA car needs constant attention,while the required daily maintenance needed by the Miata is.....well.......check the tire pressures and.clean the bugs off the windshield! Oh,and check the oil once every few months!!!

Others have addressed most of the questions. As far as weight goes, you will be pretty limited in what you will WANT to strip out if you are still going to drive it on the street. My race car is down to about 2350 pounds with an empty fuel tank, without me and includes a full cage and aluminum racing seat.

Like others have said, decide what you want to do and then choose/build the car. If you have ANY interest in actual "racing" as opposed to "driving fast" on a race track then you should consider that now as well. Building a 300HP Fiero may mean you will only be allowed to "race" it in specific clubs later on when you get tired of waiting for the slower drivers to point you by during track days.
From what I have heard, (Dave is welcome to correct me) NASA will allow you to build it your way and then class it based on a tested power to weight ratio. NASA also has a tiered driver program which requires a passenger seat in your car for one of their instructors until they feel you are ready to go solo. Both can be positive attributes depending on the situation.

As far as actual "racing", my opinion is the SCCA is the best game in town. We probably have the biggest rule book and the most restrictions, but I think it is much more competitive (and forgiving) racing. While no one wants to crash, it is inevitable for a multiple of reasons in racing, and I think the SCCA has the highest level of safety, number of corner workers, track requirements, insurance and rules. Of the several crashes I have seen over the past 5 years there were only a handful of times where administrative action (protests) were made. Most of the time, both drivers agreed it was a mutual cause (or one just admitted they he/she screwed up) and ended with a handshake. (I have heard that ANY contact in a NASA event will result in a 13 month probation period, but that was a while ago before I joined the SCCA). Our extra rules also mean we can tear down a car that is suspected of breaking the rules and gaining a power advantage. I am not sure how or if NASA regulates whether a Miata is still making the same power it was classed as, but we randomly inspect a few specific items on all our top finishers.

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: As far as actual "racing", my opinion is the SCCA is the best game in town. We probably have the biggest rule book and the most restrictions, but I think it is much more competitive (and forgiving) racing. While no one wants to crash, it is inevitable for a multiple of reasons in racing, and I think the SCCA has the highest level of safety, number of corner workers, track requirements, insurance and rules. Of the several crashes I have seen over the past 5 years there were only a handful of times where administrative action (protests) were made. Most of the time, both drivers agreed it was a mutual cause (or one just admitted they he/she screwed up) and ended with a handshake. (I have heard that ANY contact in a NASA event will result in a 13 month probation period, but that was a while ago before I joined the SCCA). Our extra rules also mean we can tear down a car that is suspected of breaking the rules and gaining a power advantage. I am not sure how or if NASA regulates whether a Miata is still making the same power it was classed as, but we randomly inspect a few specific items on all our top finishers.

Well, not to drift the subject,(and this will be the only time I will go off the subject,PM me if you want to discuss this further) but apparently you haven't taken a good look at NASA in the past few seasons. As far as rule books are concerned, if you study the GCRs from each club,you will realize that they are just about the same. In fact,there are a few tech safety items,classes,types of events and wordings that SCCA took FROM NASA's GCR.
RE:safety at the track,the amount of corner workers,safety vehicles/crew,,required insurance coverage,etc.. are mandated BY THE TRACK,depending upon if is a race day or DE day(race conditions require about twice the amount of corner workers and emergency crew). As far as the 13/13 rule,this is also used in PCA and BMW club racing to good measure. The days of building a car in your backyard and going racing for a couple hundred invested in a car are long gone. Cars are way more expensive to buy/build/maintain,fuel is more expensive for both tow vehicles and race cars, hotels are more expensive,and it is becoming increasingly difficult to take days off from busy jobs in this economy. Because of this,the days of "rubbin-is racin" is long over around here. I,along with many that race here in the NE put a large effort into our racing efforts(travel, days off,etc..) including the construction and maintenance of our cars that we just don't appreciate someone ripping off our rear bumper cover,caving in a quarter panel or door for a $4.00 trophy that in the end means NOTHING. NASA has the 13/13 rule because it was asked for by the members and keeps the racing close,clean and safe.
As far as competition,yes NASA NE is still up-and-coming as far a car counts ( but our DE numbers are much higher than SCCA's DE program) ,but look at a SE or Mid Atlantic region's numbers and you would be very surprised (NASA Northeast is behind developmentally by about 5 years due to lack of development by the previous owners) Our classing system caters to crossover racers coming out of the DE arena,where they can build a car with various levels of mods and creativity and we will find a class that they can fit in . Class parity is maintained in some classes(GTS,ST,SU) by HP/Weight ratios or a points system(points are applied to mods then class bumps are based upon total amount of points). Each cars has to submit dyno or Modification point sheets in the beginning of the season to their class directors and if there is a question to a cars legality after a regional race,then the owner has a limited time that they must submit a new dyno sheet from a designated shop (or at the track if it is there) or he/she will be DQd( As far as teardowns are concerned,when was the last time that you saw one done at a small regional even! NASA does do them if needed at the National level) . As a result of our open classing and strict contact enforcement , we have been enticing an increasing amount of PCA and BMWCC members (AND SCCA members looking for more track time as we offer more track time per weekend than SCCA)to our events that continued to grow our ranks as each season progresses and positive feedback gets out . So, I hope you can think of NASA of not "those other guys", or "loose cannons",but just another flavor of a great hobby/addiction/past time that everyone can enjoy .

Thank You,
Dave D.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.................

I have absolutely no issues with NASA at all. Sorry if I mislead you Dave. I looked into both clubs and decided which one I wanted to be in. Just that simple. In our region there is a fair amount of the same people involved in both clubs. I think the NASA program is very well structured and has probably the best driver training program for drivers. I also think SCCA is a more direct route for people like myself who want to go racing. I understand perfectly how expensive even the most basic race car is, and ALL the associated costs. I was not implying we are a bunch of crazy drivers either. Stuff happens.

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