Which would you rather own and why? What are the benefits to owning the 84 through 87's? What are the drawbacks? What are the benefits of owning an 88, and what are the drawbacks ect ect..

Please feel free to add any other pro's and con's that will add to the discussion, and hopefully at the end of this we can declare a winner!!!

88 hands down..

Better suspension, handling, all the tweaks worked out from previous years... No fires. available in T-top versions.. etc

My opinion --- nicer body lines especially the GT models but then the 86 and 87 were similar... Oh, No striped skirt for the 88's.. All one color I believe.

88's had the 5 speed Muncie instead of the 4.. Not sure if it is for the 88's only though.

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 01-14-2010).]

The only real down side to owning an 88 would be the availability of 88-specific parts (like the front wheel bearings, and rubber rear link bushings).

I would love an 88, but I do have an 84...

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1984 Fiero SE

Personally I think the 88's are way over rated and usually by the over inflated egos of their owners.
Yes they have slightly better brakes, no biggie there just do a brake upgrade. Yes better suspension but again the older ones can be modified beyond that they are basically the same car and with all the idiots out there making fun of our little cars there is no reason or need for the insulting of non 88's in here. Dan

quote Originally posted by FIEROFLYER: Personally I think the 88's are way over rated and usually by the over inflated egos of their owners. Yes they have slightly better brakes, no biggie there just do a brake upgrade. Yes better suspension but again the older ones can be modified beyond that they are basically the same car and with all the idiots out there making fun of our little cars there is no reason or need for the insulting of non 88's in here. Dan

Exactly.

Id take my setup '85 over a '88 for many reasons, one being parts and price. Probably in '89 comparing a '88 fiero to a '85 I would love an '88 but 20+ years down the road, Im looking at aftermarket, availability and price.

quote Originally posted by FIEROFLYER: over inflated egos of their owners. there is no reason or need for the insulting of non 88's in here. Dan

Goes both ways, dan...

Resale value is higher on the 88's.

Personally, I dont drive hard enough to miss the improvements I dont have on my '86.

quote Originally posted by FIEROFLYER: Personally I think the 88's are way over rated and usually by the over inflated egos of their owners. Yes they have slightly better brakes, no biggie there just do a brake upgrade. Yes better suspension but again the older ones can be modified beyond that they are basically the same car and with all the idiots out there making fun of our little cars there is no reason or need for the insulting of non 88's in here. Dan

X2 I love my 84, and I plan on making it just as good as any 88 TO ME, I like what I like, and I want what I want.

I dunno. I have owned 84-87 and all models. But I have never owned a 88. YET

quote Originally posted by FIEROFLYER: Personally I think the 88's are way over rated and usually by the over inflated egos of their owners. Yes they have slightly better brakes, no biggie there just do a brake upgrade. Yes better suspension but again the older ones can be modified beyond that they are basically the same car and with all the idiots out there making fun of our little cars there is no reason or need for the insulting of non 88's in here. Dan

My project car is an 85.

Brakes, I agree, no problem - LeBarons are great.

84-87 front suspension is basically fine.

84-87 rear suspension is total garbage. No, it cannot be modified to 88 standards without welding and fabrication. The rear lower wishbones are simply pointing the wrong way...

I like 87 Fieros everything 88 but the suspension and half the price. I am making one of my 87s a hybrid with an 88 rear cradle so I will then know what that is like.

I have both a 86 and 88.

The 88 feels a bit tighter than the 86 (and the 86 has been redone, cradle solid mounted/poly/etc - still have to add the rear sway bar, and that may make the difference) - the 88 is harder to get some parts and some are more expensive. I don't think the brakes make all that much of a difference in everyday driving.

Which do I drive more? The 86, but that is: 1) because of the 4.9, and, 2) paranoid about the 88 getting written off. Don't get me wrong, the 88 does get driven, just more worried about trying to keep it original and such - but it does make it out with the 86 for shows and club events - the 86 is more of a daily driver.

As far as I am concerned I would buy a pre-88 just for the hard to get part reason (interior dot matrix parts are tough to find in mint condition for example) - as stated there are certain people that figure the 88 is the "holy grail", it maybe be a bit better than the other years (technology wise), but they are all fun.

I have a few of each. I will say that the handling differences in the 88s along with the factory coded T-Top option makes it better car...for me. The latter is of course an opinion. The CJB and last year of production make it an overall better collector car, with teh exception of the Pace Car run. I enjoy the handling of my 88GT daily driver over the vague handling of the 86SE that I just sold. I love the notchback look of 86SE types which is one of the draws for the Indy Pace Car variety, along with its limited availability. This makes the Pace Car a great car but with a lack of performance. On the third hand, my 85 coupe was a great car. 145k miles and not one problem beyond oil, gas, and an O2 sensor. That pointed nose look so closely resembles the old 308GT from Ferrari (not Magnum's style but the one previous to that) for a fraction of the cost. Lastly, as previously mentioned, the handling, along with the performance, issues are both solvable with time and money.

I guess in short this means that all of the cars have their individual merits. If we are comparing bone stock to bone stock you have to say the 88s come out on top performance wise. As a collectable, I would rate them as Indy Pace Car, 88 GT, 88 Formula, others

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: I dunno. I have owned 84-87 and all models. But I have never owned a 88. YET

Incredible. I've owned 15 different Fieros, never had anything but 88s.

Of the seven currently in the stable, let me check, yep, all are 88s. Hmm, I must be living right.

Ron

Here...88 all the way. That's all I want from now on.

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fierogt28

88 GT, loaded, 5-speed

quote Originally posted by Fosgatecavy98: Exactly. Id take my setup '85 over a '88 for many reasons, one being parts and price. Probably in '89 comparing a '88 fiero to a '85 I would love an '88 but 20+ years down the road, Im looking at aftermarket, availability and price.

I have both types and if you can find a 88 in good condition and cheap (cheap is the important wording here)- then fine, but sooner-or-later you'll still need to replace the crappy 88 suspension with upgraded brakes/rotors. As for T-tops-- that's a piece a crap regardless of what year. I find it odd that a person is so concerned about a 88 handling in the twisties, but not concerned about body flex with T-tops. The body flex along should have you running the opposite direction.

I have owned every year Fiero myself and while the 88's handling is better than earlier years (stock to stock both in perfect condition) I find that for 95% of the driving everyone does the difference really does not matter.

As said by others, 88 parts cost more and availablilty can be an issue at times.

Personally if it were a huge concern for me that the handling of my pre 88 Fieros be as good as an 88's (which it really isn't at the moment) it would be very easy to upgrade the pre 88 Fieros suspension to match or exceed stock 88. Held A-arms, upgraded front and rear sway bars, a few tweeks to correct bump steer, and an easy grand am brake upgrade would launch a pre 88 into extremely good performance levels.

Really it is just what is important to the owner. Very few who brag about how great the 88's compared to how the 84-87 handle, use the car in such a way that it makes 1 scrap of difference. If you were hard core into tracking your car, turning multiple laps and running it hard for extended periods, well then you might be more concerned that your brake fade could hurt your times, or that roll or bump steer is hurting your runs in the corners.

It really comes down to what is important to you personally. I drive all year Fieros and enjoy the driving experience the same in them all. For me, the prestige of owning an 88 is just that, prestige. I like 84 Indy's and get the most enjoyment from them.

Maybe for some people having an 88 is not unlike owning a 50 cal. scoped rifle. you will never want or need to fire a round through a building and then through the hull of an aircraft and past that a mile away to clobber a row of terrorists standing neatly in a single file line....but the peace of mind knowing that you have it and could if all those conditions arose is enough.

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 01-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by pmbrunelle: My project car is an 85. Brakes, I agree, no problem - LeBarons are great. 84-87 front suspension is basically fine. 84-87 rear suspension is total garbage. No, it cannot be modified to 88 standards without welding and fabrication. The rear lower wishbones are simply pointing the wrong way...

Agreed. A pre-88 with the 88 cradle is a great combo. The rest of the changes where minor if not nil.

I just don't have any issues with my brakes. They stop the car fast and they don't fade. I've driven my buddies 88 and I can't say the difference is all that cosmic.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 01-14-2010).]

I would take any Fiero of any year but hands down after having several Fieros as well as kit cars I love the 88's
I guess that is why I have 2 of them

My two remaining Fieros are the two V-8 cars. one is an 86 and one an 88. the 86 (SBC) has front and rear aftermarket swaybars, ralley springs, Held rear anti bump steer kit, full poly etc. the 88 (N*) has been compleatly rebuilt, but to stock GT suspension specs with Fiero front and rear swasybars etc. the 86 is SO much more fun to drive, and the parts for the 88, wether stock or upgrade, are hard to come by. the 88 brakes are just as pathetic as the early, so you'll need upgrading for serious driving anyway, so why bother with an 88 suspension/brakes to begin with? I'd take an early anyday just for parts availability if nothing else.

Russ544

I prefer the softer ride of pre-88 models. They are also much easier to find parts. If you want improved handling characteristics, get an 88

If you're just going to use it as a weekend cruiser, the 85-87's are probably your best bet. The 84s are very similar, but they did have some front suspension issues that were upgraded in the later cars. Also the 84's have a few differences with wire harnesses and component locations that are different from other years. You have to remember though that gm raided the parts bins to piece the Fiero together, you basically have a Chevette front suspension in the front, and a Citation front suspension in the rear. While it can be made to work and handle decently it's definitely not an ideal starting point for a suspension design. If handling isn't too much of a concern the 84-87's are fine. If you're planning an engine swap the 84-87's have a little more space between the strut towers [not alot, but every bit helps depending on what you're swapping in]. If you were to build a drag car where only straightline performance is a concern an 84-87 would be the way to go due to the lower rotational mass of the braking systems solid discs. It'll go faster easier but won't stop too well. 84-87 parts availability is much better than 88's, there were at least 300,000+ 84-87's built VS. less than 40,000 88's built.

The 88's have a much better suspension that was specifically designed for the Fiero with longer front a-arms, trailing link rear suspension , and improved vented disc brakes all around as well. If you like carving up canyon roads or plan on some autocrossing/roadracing the 88 is a much better place to start. A stock 88 is a much better handling car, there might not be a huge difference in the max skidpad #'s, but you don't drive on a skidpad. I have owned both and the 88 is a clear winner driveability wise. The improved suspension has a better scrub radius, and the dreaded bump steer is substantially reduced, and an 88 is much better at soaking up the bumps vs. the jarring you'll take in an earlier car. The handling/ride characteristics, braking, and just the way the car feels is miles ahead of the earlier cars. If you enjoy spirited driving, or were to use your Fiero as a daily driver an 88 will provide a much more pleasurable ride. Due to the limited production you could have some parts issues and you will pay more for some items, but it really is a much better car.

There are some other differences but i think those are the most obvious/main ones. Both can be modded up to whatever you want them to be if that's what you're into, it's just easier to do certain things to one or the other. So it all depends on what you want out of the car and what you're intentions for it are. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages.

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88blackchopv8

[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 01-14-2010).]

88 all the way. I'm very surprized that a lot of non 88 owners seem bitter that they don't have one?

quote Originally posted by 88GT.FASTBACK: 88 all the way. I'm very surprized that a lot of non 88 owners seem bitter that they don't have one?

I'm not bitter about not owning a '88. Granted GM fixed some bugs from previous models, but I'm very happy with my '87 GT. I'd rather have an earlier model due to replacement parts. While I'm fixing mine with availible parts, you guys have to either fab or start a scavenger search for what you need. Ya'll are looking at your rides waiting for parts and I'm driving mine. J/K

[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 01-14-2010).]

How much of that is due to the '88 being the most recent year. Aka.: newest, least aged parts?

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Also, if the '88 rear suspension is so great, how come nobody has ever figured out how to make a 4-link setup, vs. the 3-link design? I figure with software such as Solidworks this should be much easier than a decade ago.

4-link how and why?

The 3-link setup works well, and with the tall roomy shock towers, the Chapman strut fits the bill. It leaves all the control arms attached to the cradle for easy serviceability - it all comes out as one unit...

Yeah, not sure where the 'bitter non 88' comment is directed. I have owned plenty of 88's and I drive all my Fieros pretty hard at times. I honestly do not see the monumental difference some people claim, it just isn't as gargantuan as you say it is. /shrug

I think the problem lay with people not having equal condition pre 88 and 88 to compare. there are a lot more pre 88's and being older they have a lot more miles on them generally. I have 2 under 20k mile pre 88's and have owned a 25k mile Formula. The difference is just not that big in my opnion...

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 01-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: Yeah, not sure where the 'bitter non 88' comment is directed. I have owned plenty of 88's and I drive all my Fieros pretty hard at times. I honestly do not see the monumental difference some people claim, it just isn't as gargantuan as you say it is. /shrug I think the problem lay with people not having equal condition pre 88 and 88 to compare. there are a lot more pre 88's and being older they have a lot more miles on them generally. I have 2 under 20k mile pre 88's and have owned a 25k mile Formula. The difference is just not that big in my opnion...

Granted if you're just cruising around not really pushing the car there isn't much difference, but as soon as you start driving the car harder through the twisties, or autocrossing, there is a big difference. The lack of bump steer alone makes the 88's much more desirable for any spirited driving. Seeing you're in cali you probably don't have many rough roads where you live so you may not have experienced the rear steer capabilities of the 84-87 Fieros. Come drive in the Midwest, the land of frost heaves and potholes, and then you'll see the differences

[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 01-14-2010).]

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: Yeah, not sure where the 'bitter non 88' comment is directed. I have owned plenty of 88's and I drive all my Fieros pretty hard at times. I honestly do not see the monumental difference some people claim, it just isn't as gargantuan as you say it is. /shrug I think the problem lay with people not having equal condition pre 88 and 88 to compare. there are a lot more pre 88's and being older they have a lot more miles on them generally. I have 2 under 20k mile pre 88's and have owned a 25k mile Formula. The difference is just not that big in my opnion...

There isn't much difference between a 22 or a 25 year old car - they're both old.

Sometimes it's just not about the end result. It's about the the design.

Even if the 84-87 rear suspension can be made to work acceptably well in practice, it's just fundamentally wrong. Some people seek the proper elegant design... And until that is fulfilled, satisfaction is not attained.

I love my 88GT... despite the popular belief of those around me...

What I do not love is that fact that they cheaped out on the interior for the final year of production...

GT seats? Out the window and replaced by non-descript simpler to sew seat covers...
Interior branding? Out the window with Fiero badges and in with silk screen on vinyl crests
Cloth on the map pockets? Meh... the aformentioned silk screened crests apply to vinyl better than carpet...
Dash trim? Out the window with higher end brushed aluminum look and in with cheap silk screened dot matrix pattern

Bah!

I'm a bit partial to 88's since buying my Formula. I've owned every year Fiero except for '85.

There is however a lot of overhype of the 88 models. You can with work make the '84-'87 cars handle as good and ride nearly just as smooth. The only main thing that you'll really never be able to bring up to the same level as the '88's is the tight turning at slow speeds. The 88's do a much better job in parking lots than the prior cars. There is also a noticeable smoother ride quality over prior years. There's not as much bump steer, but you can reduce the prior year bump steer with work.

I do however drive my '86 GT everyday as a daily driver even if the ride isn't as great as my '88. I like to leave the '88 to every so often duty.

Honestley besides for better parts i dont know what all the fuss is about thew 88's i have yet to own one and to tell you the truth I dont know if I even want to. The only reason I would think about one is for daily driving reliability. Neither of my fieros are daily drivin since my firebird has come back. As hobby cars id say any of them are fine. As for daily driveability 88 would be the way to go.

edit: never mind /good grief

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 01-15-2010).]

Don't forget. The 88's have lotus under em. I'm going to crawl under my rock now.....

I'll drive whatever Fiero hat happens to be in my driveway. I have 2 88's and an 86. My first was an 86 SE and I still love that car best. Probably cause it was the first but I have not had one yet that had as nice a ride. My Formula is fun but a little stiff for long cruises - it's all stock. The XTC is the "go cart" of the bunch with all Poly but it lacks any HP to really push it. It's a lot of fun to run down the twisty mountain road but it beats my kidneys to death. My 86 has a 350 in it and I could care less about how it turns unless the back end is trying to come around with a mash of the throttle. Bottom line is "what you want to do with the car" I really could not choose which one is he best. That's why I have 3.

Throw out the T top advantage as there are many of the other years that have them too. Skip the body differance etc.

The 88 is just a better sorted suspension and nothing more. Now you pay for it when it is much harder to locate parts for the one year only parts. That is the differance and nothing more. If you don't like bump steer then buy the 88.

Oh and the 88's are rare too? LOL!!!! Well that is what they claim on E bay so it has to be right.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 01-15-2010).]

I like the '88 (and '87) gas tank...
I like the 'improved' '88 (and '87) headlights...

I like the 2.8 engine bay better in the '88... with the lack a of coil cooler and blower fan.

I rather like all the little quirks that make an '88 an '88... off set wheels, dot matrix trim... stuff.

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<---- did you buy Cliff a beer?

quote Originally posted by 88GT.FASTBACK: 88 all the way. I'm very surprized that a lot of non 88 owners seem bitter that they don't have one?

I'm not bitter but I am Indifferent.
I prefer the coupe's styling
I have upgraded my car's suspension and brakes
I am bored with 88 threads that focus on pissing on the previous model years, it is counterproductive to building a FIERO Forum.