Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat - Archive
  SMOKEY YUNICK HOT VAPOR FIERO on eBay

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


SMOKEY YUNICK HOT VAPOR FIERO on eBay by MoneyNoMo
Started on: 03-15-2009 02:47 AM
Replies: 20
Last post by: fierofool on 03-16-2009 09:26 PM
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 02:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post
for all you tech fans Enjoy







[This message has been edited by MoneyNoMo (edited 03-15-2009).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 02:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post






[This message has been edited by MoneyNoMo (edited 03-15-2009).]

IP: Logged
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 02:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post

MoneyNoMo

77 posts
Member since Jul 2005

IP: Logged
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 03:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post

MoneyNoMo

77 posts
Member since Jul 2005








IP: Logged
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 03:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post

MoneyNoMo

77 posts
Member since Jul 2005


[This message has been edited by MoneyNoMo (edited 03-15-2009).]

IP: Logged
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 03:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post

MoneyNoMo

77 posts
Member since Jul 2005
As most of us believe making the fuel cold increases density and improves performance. Cooler air and cooler fuel means more air and more fuel into the combustion chamber; bigger bang. That’s why our cars run so well in the spring and fall with that cool crisp air. Smokey went a different direction. He believed that the quality of the mixture was more important than the quantity. Most engines of the day burnt only 25% of the fuel and wasted 75%. Smokey’s premise was, heat the fuel too 400-440 degrees and you could vaporize the gas more efficiently and obtain more power from less fuel. He designed a new cam; a homogenizer (exhaust driven turbine) to mix the air and fuel and a new intake manifold that is totally wrapped by exhaust gas ducting (to heat the mixture). The system is more complicated than my brief description but you can see in the diagram how it works. I have also included excerpts from the Hot Rod Magazine article as follows.
The following are excerpts from the Hot Rod Article to further explain the technical details of Smokey’s Hot Vapor Engine.

“…consider the Pontiac Fiero shown here. Equipped with Smokey’s “expander-cycle” exhaust and induction system, and requiring only a cam change inside the production 151-cubic-inch (2.5 liter) Iron Duke 4-cylinder, the car now gets more than 50 miles to the gallon, develops 250 hp and 230 ft.-lbs. of torque, runs more smoothly than any 4-cylinder you’ve ever experienced, starts and idles smoothly and cleanly, has no computer controls, passes federal emissions standards, an oh yes, it’ll accelerate from 0-60 mph in as little as 6 seconds flat! Here’s how it works.”

“Some parts of gasoline vaporize very easily at low temperatures to help get a cold engine started. Other parts have a much higher boiling point to prevent the fuel from vaporizing in the fuel lines enroute to the engine. What this all comes down to is that in today’s typical engines, only part of the fuel entering the combustion chambers is in a combustible state. To fully vaporize pump gasoline, and to keep it vaporized for complete combustion, the incoming air/fuel mixture needs to be elevated to between 400-440 degrees F.”

“First, all the hot water existing the engine is channeled through a heat exchanger directly under the carburetor (or throttle body injection, TBI, unit).” (Next the mixture flows through what looks like a small turbocharger, but this is not a turbocharged engine. The turbocharger-like device is actually a homogenizer and the second-stage vapor generator. In the homogenizer an exhaust-driven turbine drives what appears to be a rotary compressor totally wrapped with exhaust gas ducting. The homogenizer serves to mix the incoming air and fuel into one uniform, homogenous mixture with the surrounding exhaust gases further elevate the mixture temperature to about 285 degrees F. From there the mixture flows through an intake manifold that is totally wrapped by exhaust gas ducting, elevating the mixture temperature to the desired 400-440 degrees F in this third, final stage. The fuel is now fully vaporized and distributed uniformly in a truly homogenous mixture that will burn cleanly and evenly in the combustion chambers without detonation or severe pressure spikes in the cylinders.”

“…all traditional internal combustion engines are dealing with non-homogenous, incompletely vaporized mixtures today. It is also true that the heating of the incoming mixture reduces its density and causes it to expand. On a normally-aspirated engine, such expansion would just push right back out through the carburetor, but on Smokey’s system the expansion is trapped in the induction system because the small turbocharger (homogenizer) serves as a one-way check valve. Consequently, with the expansion contained, the induction system becomes pressurized, providing high mixture density and artificially aspirating the engine.”

Remember I said the Fiero had a strange set of tires? Well, Smokey was an expert on all things car. He designed what he liked to call the “Bald Eagle” tire for Good Year. It is a slick with groves in it to make it work on the street in everyday conditions. It also has a special compound to reduce deterioration from ultra-violet light rays. There were only 100 of these experimental tires ever produced and 4 are on this Fiero.

Please note… This is not the ORIGINAL Smokey Yunick Fiero. The original vehicle (car not engine etc) was returned to Pontiac when the deal did not go thru. This car body only was purchased for Smokey to reconstruct the hot vapor fiero by installing his original engine trans and instrumentation. The gentleman we are selling the car for completed the installation and restoration. It was his understanding from talking with Smokey’s associate for over 30 years that the original Fiero body was a non MSO vehicle. The engine, drive train, tires and gauges are all original to the article. The body is an exact copy of the 84. The VIN number on the car is 1G2PM37R3GP266997 and the mileage shows 129,652 on the car, not the motor. For $38,000 all of the spare parts and 3 hot vapor motors will be included with the purchase of the car. These motor's include a Renault similar to the Delorean motor, an early 80's Buick engine and a Dodge Omni engine. These are all Hot Vapor motors from Smokey.

If you are not familiar with Smokey Yunick, you can read about him on the International Motor Sports Hall of Fame website by following this link… http://motorsportshalloffam...okey_Yunick_main.htm
IP: Logged
MoneyNoMo
Member
Posts: 77
From: Malibu, CA
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 03:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MoneyNoMoSend a Private Message to MoneyNoMoDirect Link to This Post

MoneyNoMo

77 posts
Member since Jul 2005
IP: Logged
fierofierofiero
Member
Posts: 370
From: McAllen, Tx
Registered: Nov 2005


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 03:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofierofieroSend a Private Message to fierofierofieroDirect Link to This Post
They've been trying to sell that car on ebay for quite some time now. Not sure how much success they're going to have.
IP: Logged
FieroMonkey
Member
Posts: 3294
From: poway,CA,USA
Registered: Nov 2002


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 114
Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyDirect Link to This Post
do they even promise that it runs and drives? that is a big price tag if it doesnt run or work as it claimed to.
IP: Logged
IMSA GT
Member
Posts: 10640
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 253
Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 12:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTDirect Link to This Post
Do we need another thread on this subject? Hasn't there been about 10 already? Every time it re-lists because no one wants it, there is a new thread created


Where is Gokart mozart when you need him

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 03-15-2009).]

IP: Logged
Patrick
Member
Posts: 38397
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 465
Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Do we need another thread on this subject? Hasn't there been about 10 already?



I was going to say the same thing, but I have to credit MoneyNoMo for putting a bit of effort into what he's posted in this thread.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
fierofool
Member
Posts: 12955
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 154
Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


I was going to say the same thing, but I have to credit MoneyNoMo for putting a bit of effort into what he's posted in this thread.


Agreed. To both statements.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/068411.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/074821.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/098630.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/044354.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/070280.html

I think that when Tony first got ownership of the car, he was very happy and enthusiastic. The car is a working piece of history, but he's taken a beating from all the nay-sayers. There are those among the Fiero community that have driven the car and experienced some of it's ability. As there are those who say the moon landing was shot in a movie studio, there will always be those who say the adiabatic Fiero is just so much smoke from a pipe dream.
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 15747
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 328
Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
A stock Duke engine in tip top shape will get 40 HWY MPG with a stick. This one is claimed to get 50 MPG. I'll tell you why this design WON'T work. The air Fuel mixture from a Carburetor is being heated by engine coolant and then it is being pumped into a turbocharger ( that is what it is) beofre going to the combustion chamber.. Trouble is that turbos are designed to pump ONLY air NOT air mixed with gasoline. The gas will get into the turbo bearings, wash away the lubrication and it may last you 5000 miles if you're lucky. Also that compressor impeller which turns at 100K RPM is not going to like hitting gas droplets at that speed.
The principle here is to take liquid gasoline and turn it to a gaseous state. However, advanced SFI already does this. You spray atomized gasoline into a hot combustion chamber where the gas is instantly vaporized. I'll bet that if you scrapped the Throttle body injection system and installed SFI on a Duke engine , you'd get exactly the same mileage as this $27,000 curiosity does which IMO is worth only a couple of thousand bucks and in all lilkelyhood detonates easily ( hence the timing adjustment on the dash). BTW has anyone taken this car out on the road to verify the actual claimed mileage or is it heresay. Has the engine been dynoed to confirm the 250HP claim???? We all know the answers to these questions.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
kevin
Member
Posts: 2722
From: Elk Grove, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-15-2009 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinDirect Link to This Post
Fellas,
I've read Smokey did NOT use gasoline to run his invention. Huh? Appearantly, Smokey found out that certain thermal dynamics of gasoline itself, did not work work correctly, over time, without some problems. (See Dennis' acurate statement's above). Rather, Smokey slyly used a derivitive of gasoline, trueline (sp.?), which operates at different parameters, allowing for the claimed performance increases. This is an old Smokey true-ism: That is, "if you don't ask the proper question, I am not going to give you sh@t for an answer." As the old addage goes, you could look it up.

Cordially,
Kevin
IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 12955
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 154
Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2009 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolDirect Link to This Post
Tony has been running the car on pump gas since he reassembled it and got the motor running. Boomtastic drove the car a couple of years ago at the Fiero Factory Swap Meet. He reported 0-60 in 6 seconds flat, and hit 80 in 2nd gear without trying. All on pump gas. Maybe the numbers aren't exact, but there's certainly a vast improvement over the stock numbers.

Sure, you can get over 40 MPG with a duke, but can you get over 200 HP at the same time without mods? This engine does both.
IP: Logged
motoracer838
Member
Posts: 3751
From: Edgewater Co. USofA
Registered: Jan 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2009 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


I was going to say the same thing, but I have to credit MoneyNoMo for putting a bit of effort into what he's posted in this thread.


I wish somebody would buy this car just so we would stop seeing threads about it, ( where is the beating a dead horse smiley when you need it.)

Joe
IP: Logged
sanderson
Member
Posts: 2203
From: corpus christi, texas, usa
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 60
Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2009 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sandersonSend a Private Message to sandersonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Has the engine been dynoed to confirm the 250HP claim????



I actually went back and read the patents. The claim was 250 HP on special fuel with 20 psig of boost. The claim on pump gas with less boost was 190 HP. The power numbers are nothing special.

IP: Logged
JazzMan
Member
Posts: 18612
From:
Registered: Mar 2003


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 653
User Banned

Report this Post03-16-2009 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-21-2009).]

IP: Logged
kevin
Member
Posts: 2722
From: Elk Grove, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2009 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinDirect Link to This Post
Fellas,
I wonder who ultimatley changed the badging on the trunk? It now reads: SY4. Obvioulsy, it was 2M4. Just curious...

Cordially,
Kevin

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 03-17-2009).]

IP: Logged
kevin
Member
Posts: 2722
From: Elk Grove, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2000


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2009 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinDirect Link to This Post

kevin

2722 posts
Member since Jan 2000
sorry for the double post

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 03-17-2009).]

IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 12955
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 154
Rate this member

Report this Post03-16-2009 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolDirect Link to This Post
I've heard that the original 84 was badged that way but the picture with Smokey standing with the car doesn't show that. Smokey returned the original 84 body to GM. This car is an 86 body, so probably Tony rebadged it. The decklid graphics reads "SY4".

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 03-16-2009).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock