AAAHHH!! I'm never going to get any more substantial time to work on my car! Geez, the phone won't stop ringing, my friends came over...
I've been postponing something that I probably should've taken care of early, and that's dropping the fuel tank. And it's full.. So I was able to get that done tonight, and the old crap in there smells HORRIBLE!! Anyway, here are some pics:
My father is a tree-trunk of a man... 6'5" 365lbs, and he's not fat... However, there aren't many bodyweight-supporting exercise machines that he trusts, so he built himself a dip bar. He used to be a welder and steel worker for Chicago Bridge Inc, so when he builds something, he goes all out, and the things you see supporting the back of my car are the dip bar he built, which he later gave me. I separated them, and after this task, they'll become my homemade engine hoist...
Both of the front cradle mounts have little slices in them... I'm not sure what they're from though; it's a little confusing. It's not rusted through, but more like cuts... These aren't good images of them. I took some close-ups, but they didn't come out very well because my camera hates me. I'll post some better ones later.
Tank's out:
Stripping the rear side of the firewall. Got most of the crap off.
EDIT: pwnin teh page...
[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 12-12-2008).]
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09:46 PM
Dec 15th, 2008
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
I spent most of today cleaning up the shop. I took the front wheels off the car, flipped it up on it's side, and moved it against the far wall in my garage. I don't have any pics of that right now, because I was in the zone, but I'll get some up later. After that, I decided it was time to separate the engine from the tranny... except I need an engine hoist. I'm broke, but I happen to have a welder and some steel... So I got to work hacking up the dip bar that was holding up my car in the previous post, and then I started mapping it out and cutting my pieces. With my tiny Wal-Mart welder (which I'm very grateful for), I kept overheating it and sending into protect (cooldown) mode trying to penetrate this 1/8" box steel. So, I took an hour or so and installed a fan in it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I voided my warranty, but I was surprised... it didn't go into protection even once after that! And as you can see in the images after installing the fan, I smoked up the garage pretty good.
My plan is to have the floor jack for normal usage, and then place it in the engine hoist when I want to use the hoist. It's difficult to see in the pics, especially since I'm not done yet, but the jack will have it's own track and notch to sit in so it doesn't go anywhere. Yeah, I suck at thick vertical welds, but I'm working on it. There will be a bar that will fit snugly in the hole of the jack that normally holds the cup, so there's no slippage there either. That bar will bolt in at the top, and stay on the lifting arm. Also, when I get closer to completion with it, I'm going to weld some nice hefty casters on the bottom of it. Anyway, let me know what you think so far... I'll have better images as I make more progress...
just caught this thread great work btw i guess with all the work ive been doing i could document a build thread but im anal about pictures so it would be in great detail and end up takeing up bandwith(sigh). out of all th forums im in this is has the best people around.
btw off topic is that the same welder that wal mart sells for like 100 if so hows it working out.
------------------ she is now yellow =) and shes a fastback
[This message has been edited by 86stealthfiero (edited 12-15-2008).]
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12:23 PM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
just caught this thread great work btw i guess with all the work ive been doing i could document a build thread but im anal about pictures so it would be in great detail and end up takeing up bandwith(sigh). out of all th forums im in this is has the best people around.
btw off topic is that the same welder that wal mart sells for like 100 if so hows it working out.
It is one in the same... It was $87.88 before tax I believe, and my best friend bought it for me as an early Christmas present. It's documented earlier in the thread, but it came with the welder itself, nice thick leather gloves, mask, a nice stiff wire brush with a small built-in slag hammer, and some worthless welding rods that would be better suited for soldering. I immediately bought some 3/32" 6013 rods on eBay (5lbs for $10 shipped). After getting those, I am thoroughly impressed with that little welder. It's not quite beefy enough sometimes when you're trying to strike the arc with a larger rod, but once you get the puddle going, it's pretty smooth, lays a nice bead when you keep the puddle flowing, and has good penetration. That's why I'm having trouble with the verticals I think - because I can't keep a nice puddle going before it runs off. In short, for a starter kit, it's worth every penny... Just get some new rods and scrap steel to practice on.
Thanks for the thumbs up! And remember, it's when you don't have money that you have to work the hardest so the project doesn't become a dud that you 'don't have time for' anymore. I have hundreds of those, and I'm determined this won't be one of them. When you're broke, it forces you to get your creative juices flowing, and that's important when you're modding!
Can someone please post a few images of the top of their engine hoist with some rough measurements of the hole placement for 3, 2.5, & 2 ton settings? I laid the form out with the jack a little forward so it won't stress it, but I'd like a rough idea of where to place my holes in the lifting arm.
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01:08 PM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
I worked on the hoist a little more tonight. I need to break a couple of welds to level & plumb it up, but I got the second rear support on the uprights, and the rear support on the bottom that will support the jack's weight. I loaned the camera to my mom, so I'll catch up on the pics tomorrow.
I spent most of today cleaning up the shop. I took the front wheels off the car, flipped it up on it's side, and moved it against the far wall in my garage. I don't have any pics of that right now, because I was in the zone, but I'll get some up later. After that, I decided it was time to separate the engine from the tranny... except I need an engine hoist. I'm broke, but I happen to have a welder and some steel... So I got to work hacking up the dip bar that was holding up my car in the previous post, and then I started mapping it out and cutting my pieces. With my tiny Wal-Mart welder (which I'm very grateful for), I kept overheating it and sending into protect (cooldown) mode trying to penetrate this 1/8" box steel. So, I took an hour or so and installed a fan in it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I voided my warranty, but I was surprised... it didn't go into protection even once after that! And as you can see in the images after installing the fan, I smoked up the garage pretty good.
My plan is to have the floor jack for normal usage, and then place it in the engine hoist when I want to use the hoist. It's difficult to see in the pics, especially since I'm not done yet, but the jack will have it's own track and notch to sit in so it doesn't go anywhere. Yeah, I suck at thick vertical welds, but I'm working on it. There will be a bar that will fit snugly in the hole of the jack that normally holds the cup, so there's no slippage there either. That bar will bolt in at the top, and stay on the lifting arm. Also, when I get closer to completion with it, I'm going to weld some nice hefty casters on the bottom of it. Anyway, let me know what you think so far... I'll have better images as I make more progress...
good luck with that effin weder that thing has made me drink quite a few beers in my day.
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02:10 AM
86stealthfiero Member
Posts: 667 From: zanesville ohio Registered: Aug 2008
good luck with that effin weder that thing has made me drink quite a few beers in my day.
Well, it's not that bad, especially if you're anywhere near decent with arc welding to begin with. It just takes a little more patience. I laid the hoist down so the vertical seams were horizontal, and I was able to lay a really nice filling bead on them.
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08:45 AM
PFF
System Bot
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Ok boys & girls... Just so we're all clear, this hoist isn't just being built because I need one. I could borrow one, but I need the welding practice with this welder if I plan to do a tubular rear clip like I want to do. So anyway, I've got some pics here for ya. The first one is of the car flipped up on it's side, with the engine, transmission, cradle waiting patiently to the side:
Here you can see the top portions I cut and tack welded in.
Since this area is going to be highly stressed, I lapped the joint so there isn't just a flat weld bead there that can break. It's difficult to see in this image, cuz the stoopit camera hates closeups.
Here's an overall shot, and my woman enjoying holding my sawzall blade...
Here you can see my first set of real beads.
Tonight I mostly concentrated on filling & beauty welds. To do this, I build up a puddle, knock the slag off, level it out with a grinder, fill in the pits with another weld puddle, and repeat. Every time I grind, I take it down around the edges until you can't see the edge of the weld, ie, it all looks like one piece of steel. Then I note where the valleys and remaining pits are, and fill them in again. Eventually, I end up with a smooth joint like this, even though the pieces aren't squarely mounted together due to the angle. Doing it this way isn't the fastest, but I'm 100% sure that I have good penetration, and it's a solid steel joint that's not even really joint anymore...
Since it's difficult to get shiny metal to show up good on camera, I threw a little primer on my smooth welds so you can see what I ended up with:
It's been raining all day here, and it's humid as crap, so my rods started spattering real bad, and it was getting difficult to strike an arc, so I wrapped it up for the night.
Well, I hope I'm inspiring other broke or timid people to trudge on despite being broke, or not knowing what to do. Take life by the horns, and play it by ear. I'm still hoping someone here has a store-bought hoist and a tape measure and can provide me with some rough measurements of the adjusting holes on the top adjustable lifting bar...? Anyone?
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11:31 PM
Dec 17th, 2008
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Yes! That's exactly what I'm talking about. All the measurements I need are on the top bar with the chain on it: - I need to know the distance from the rear edge of that bar to where the jack bolts to it. - Most of them have a telescoping bar with three positions. I'd like to know the distances of those holes from the rear edge of the bar.
Thanks so much!!
EDIT: If it's not too much trouble, could you also tell me the length of the bottom bars (the ones with the wheels on them), and the total length of the top bar fully extended? Thanks.
[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 12-17-2008).]
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01:34 PM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Here you go, hope this helps. My hoist is slightly different from the one shown. On mine the 2 ton position is between the pivot point and the strut anchor point (at the 9 inch mark). I guess what really matters is the length from the end (at the pivot end) to the chain in the 2 ton position. On mine that length is 63 1/2 inches so using the measurements on the diagram, the beam length (from pivot end to chain) for each weight rating would be:
2 ton 63 1/2 inches 1.5 ton 71 inches 1 ton 78.5 inches 1/2 ton 85 .5 inches
Here you go, hope this helps. My hoist is slightly different from the one shown. On mine the 2 ton position is between the pivot point and the strut anchor point (at the 9 inch mark). I guess what really matters is the length from the end (at the pivot end) to the chain in the 2 ton position. On mine that length is 63 1/2 inches so using the measurements on the diagram, the beam length (from pivot end to chain) for each weight rating would be:
2 ton 63 1/2 inches 1.5 ton 71 inches 1 ton 78.5 inches 1/2 ton 85 .5 inches
If you need anything else, just let me know.
Dave, you are teh awesome!! Thank you sooo much.
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06:46 PM
Dec 24th, 2008
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Small update. In the interest of time, I decided to cease & desist with the beauty grinding, and just get the darn thing welded and finished sometime before I die... I scored my "arm" for the top of the hoist, and the pipe that I'm planning to use for the upright from the jack to the arm. I'm glad I don't work for a welding company, because some of these beads are just rancid!
The pieces I got for making the top end were the tongue assembly of a tilt-tongue boat trailer. They're pretty rusty, but from a good look-over, they seem to be substantial enough just for what I'm doing. Plus, I can always upgrade the arm at a later time if I need to... So anyway, got the hinge piece welded on:
And here is the top arm, in all it's rusting glory:
Propane tanks for use with upcoming air compressor project:
Just to be sure the top arm is substantial enough, I have some good thick angle I'm going to weld to the bottom corners. Also, the hinge area and where the upright pushes up on the arm will be substantially braced. I hope to get the tracks for the jack welded in tomorrow, and maybe have something that's close to working.
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01:19 AM
Dec 28th, 2008
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
I got it. Thanks so much, sometimes a boost is needed to get re-focused! I haven't been able to do anything lately because the only DD car I had was my '88 DeVille with 207k miles on it, and things kept wearing out on it, so all of my time had to be diverted to working on it so I could make it to work, then I bought another vehicle for a DD and I'm having to fix a few minor issues on also. I should be able to hop back on it this week. I didn't really think anybody was interested anymore, so I haven't really been motivated to post anything.
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11:44 AM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Gotta agree, I am interested also. I like your posts. Makes me laugh quite often. Also like the work that you are doing. Keep it up. Don't get down, unless you are dancing.
------------------
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01:07 PM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
I love the pics with half a Fiero chassis lying on it's side in the garage. You must have a great other half (of the married type I mean, not the other half of the Fiero!).
I love the pics with half a Fiero chassis lying on it's side in the garage. You must have a great other half (of the married type I mean, not the other half of the Fiero!).
Heh, you haven't seen her in the GWF thread? She's all about it... She not only tolerates my crazy shenanigans, she also gets in on it with me! She is dead set on a Huffaker IMSA replica, so I've definitely got my work cut out for me!
I might have to sideline this one (or at least go at it more slowly) for a bit... I'm really wanting to try my hand at a 4 seater while the kids are still living at home, and I'm very seriously considering taking that project on soon too. And no, I'm not interested in buying GM's 2+2, nor am I interested in the one at Archie's (unless he happens to give it away). There are some things I don't like about either one of those, and I want to start from scratch and build a sweet 4m8 that's gonna knock ALL of your socks off! But first I gotta get my '88 home, and get it in shape (stock) for Daytona & Run for the Hills.... Man, so many Fieros, so little time!!
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02:56 PM
Jan 13th, 2009
Rivethead Member
Posts: 83 From: Charlotte, NC, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2009
Man, just wanted to let you know that there are more people intrested in what you are doing than you realize. Somehow I found your "Journal of a Concept" page back in November right after you started it. I was checking in reguarly, couldn't wait to see what you did next and then you cleaned up your garage and... Where'd he go? Luckily I caught back up with you here. I don't even own a Fiero, never have, although I do like them and appreciate the inovative engineering that made them possible. I joined this forum yesterday for the sole purpose of letting you know that people are watching. Finish this project, do the 4M8, hell, I liked the stuff about the engine hoist and the welder mod. Just keep moving forward and keep posting.
Bob
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10:40 AM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Wow. Thanks. I actually had a lot more stuff up there, and I screwed up and wrote over it on an update... stoopit delete flag... Hopefully I can get back on it tonight.
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04:44 PM
Jan 14th, 2009
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Very teeny tiny update from lastnight... For some reason, the holiday season just makes me not want to get going again on anything. I went down to work on it lastnight, and had no motivation at all... Anyway, all I did was gap weld the other side of the hinge spacer on the boom. I started to do some more to it, but just generally didn't feel like it.
Several passes and a couple of rods later, and I ended up with this:
Tonight I'm planning on getting the jack cradle welded in, and getting the hinge on the boom drilled out. I've got to go buy a drill bit, because the hole is a little bigger than my 1/2" bit. Hopefully after tonight I can at least have a semi-operational prototype to show.
EDIT: If any of you prefer keeping up with the website for any reason, it's all up to date again now.
[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 01-14-2009).]
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02:08 PM
86fakegt Member
Posts: 363 From: levittown pa Registered: Jan 2009
glad to see your not lettin rust stop ya. my bro replaced pretty close to everything on his freshly finished 68 dodge dart gts(1 of like 350 made with this color combo/motor combo) but the 340 came out and in went a built 440 bb, but back on topic rust sucks lol. does the fiero factory charge alot for one of the cars in the yard or take trade ins?
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02:40 PM
Rivethead Member
Posts: 83 From: Charlotte, NC, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2009
glad to see your not lettin rust stop ya. my bro replaced pretty close to everything on his freshly finished 68 dodge dart gts(1 of like 350 made with this color combo/motor combo) but the 340 came out and in went a built 440 bb, but back on topic rust sucks lol. does the fiero factory charge alot for one of the cars in the yard or take trade ins?
Well, to be quite honest with you, Ed is a little on the 1-2-3 side of life... in other words, you need to go there, point at a car and say "I would like this car, and I want to know if you'll trade for my car, and how much?" If you email him asking for a ballpark price, then you'll get an around-bush-answer, and no dollar range. He's a good guy tho, just needs specifics.
Wow... a lot of work ahead for you.... Way to go though!!!. Made props for you!!! And I thought pulling the engine out and rebuilding it is extreme... Definitely show us when you're finished
I didn't buy a cherry-picker either. I made a hoist out of 4 x 4's and some 2 x 8 header beams with a 3/4 ton ratchet chain hoist attached to it. Worked great for what I was doing and it'll lift the whole car with the engine in it.. The header, with the engine, bowed about an inch but without the engine, the frame didn't even move.
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05:02 PM
PFF
System Bot
Feb 14th, 2009
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Ok guys... With Daytona quickly approaching, I found an '85 coupe with a bad 4-banger (red bumper-pad in the first pic)... I have an '88 Formula with a recently rebuilt V6... so the short version is, I got motivated again, and pretty much got the hoist finished today. I'm sorry I hardly have any in-process pics, but I kinda hit it like a tazmanian devil at about 12pm, it's 10:30pm now, and I just closed the garage door for the night... Anyway, here's the hoist in all it's glory...
I've still got a few small things to do, like support a few corners, etc. I could have made it look a lot better if I had a few more tools, like a drill press, drill bits that are worth a crap, and maybe a vise, and some C clamps, but I did my best! Let me know what you guys think!
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11:45 PM
Feb 15th, 2009
Stubby79 Member
Posts: 7064 From: GFY county, FY. Registered: Aug 2008
Ok guys... With Daytona quickly approaching, I found an '85 coupe with a bad 4-banger (red bumper-pad in the first pic)... I have an '88 Formula with a recently rebuilt V6... so the short version is, I got motivated again, and pretty much got the hoist finished today. I'm sorry I hardly have any in-process pics, but I kinda hit it like a tazmanian devil at about 12pm, it's 10:30pm now, and I just closed the garage door for the night... Anyway, here's the hoist in all it's glory...
I've still got a few small things to do, like support a few corners, etc. I could have made it look a lot better if I had a few more tools, like a drill press, drill bits that are worth a crap, and maybe a vise, and some C clamps, but I did my best! Let me know what you guys think!
Wow, I'm impressed! I was thinking of doing something very similar, originally, for my swap; didn't want to spend another three hundred or so on another tool and only need to use it twice...besides which, I don't have the room for even a folding one. I hope you get a lot of use out of it! That looks like it was a lot of work(and a lot of fun, too), more than it was worth it for me to get the back end of my fiero up high enough the one time.
I've been watching your thread, I'm very impressed with your inginuity! Glad I'm not alone in figuring out how to get things done without just throwing money at it.
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05:13 AM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Wow, I'm impressed! I was thinking of doing something very similar, originally, for my swap; didn't want to spend another three hundred or so on another tool and only need to use it twice...besides which, I don't have the room for even a folding one. I hope you get a lot of use out of it! That looks like it was a lot of work(and a lot of fun, too), more than it was worth it for me to get the back end of my fiero up high enough the one time.
I've been watching your thread, I'm very impressed with your inginuity! Glad I'm not alone in figuring out how to get things done without just throwing money at it.
Thanks! The only money I spent on it was the shiny new chain, 3/8" high test (5400lb) 4ft @ $3.77/ft, the high test (5400lb) grab hook ~$6, and the wheels 3 @ ~$5 ea. I was a few dollars shy of getting 4 wheels, so there's one single steel caster under the jack, but it really needs 4 total for stability. I snipped the chain pretty short on the boom, so I still have ~3.5ft for a stabilizer chain, and I need to get a couple more hooks for that. I also need to get a couple $1 cans of rattlecan paint to pretty it up when I'm officially done. I'll probably make it collapsible also, as well as add a removable engine stand component so that it's an all-in-one unit.
If anyone else is considering building a similar hoist, and wants close-ups, let me know and I'll be happy to share how I did what. -Paul
Nice work Fieroboom! What kind of pipe did you use to run from jack to the boom? I would stitch a piece of flat steel along the length of it just to make sure it's not the weak link... I really like the end result though
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01:42 PM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Nice work Fieroboom! What kind of pipe did you use to run from jack to the boom? I would stitch a piece of flat steel along the length of it just to make sure it's not the weak link... I really like the end result though
Hey thanks! I have no idea what kind of pipe it is... As you can see from it's rust, I found it, but it looks to have something close to 3/8" walls... Gas pipe maybe? Anyway, it's pretty heavy gauge in any case. I just walked in the door from bringing the formula home, so now it's time to get down to brass tacks and get the "'85 coupe-ula" ready for Daytona! I'll have jackstands and necessary safety measures for the hoist's maiden lift, but I don't forsee any issues. Wish me luck! -Paul
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04:57 PM
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10268 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
Hey thanks! I have no idea what kind of pipe it is... As you can see from it's rust, I found it, but it looks to have something close to 3/8" walls... Gas pipe maybe? Wish me luck! -Paul
So thats where that damned coolant pipe went
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05:08 PM
fieroboom Member
Posts: 2132 From: Hayden, AL (BFE) Registered: Oct 2008
Man, I am SOOO happy! The homemade hoist is a virgin no longer.... First, we started off with a test lift of an entire engine/trans/cradle/suspension lift, compliments of The Survivor:
Then, we separated the engine & trans from the cradle & suspension, and moved it out of the immediate way:
I know some of you are probably thinking "yeah, so, you built a hoist... and it works..." But you have no idea how exciting it is to me to be able to create something from scratch, have it turn out to be exactly what the vision in my head was, and furthermore, have it work flawlessly. I am so pumped right now!! Ok, I guess I'm done for now. This will probably be where I leave The Survivor thread for a while so I can get "The Coupe-ula" ready for D9. If you'd like to follow along in more hoist adventures, please join me in my other thread. -Paul
