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A brief education on snow tires (for winter fiero drivers) by ckfiero
Started on: 11-20-2008 02:48 PM
Replies: 13
Last post by: ckfiero on 11-22-2008 12:21 PM
ckfiero
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Report this Post11-20-2008 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ckfieroSend a Private Message to ckfieroDirect Link to This Post
I didn't want to bury this inside another thread where it might get lost, but a few suggestions from all my years driving in the fun and exciting roads of New England, which were often un-plowed and un-sanded. That said:

General Theory:

Not all tires are created equal. Different tires serve different purposes, and the tread patterns and rubber compounds used to make the tires vary accordingly. All-weather tires are not the best thing to have if you feel you will need to daily drive your Fiero through the bad weather season.

A dedicated winter snow tire has a more aggressive lug design, and channels materials differently than an all weather tire. Also, they will have lower mileage ratings because of being made with a softer rubber compound. The thought process behind this is that cold rubber grips less than hot rubber when you find the cold asphalt surface on a snowy road. The softer rubber compound which wears away quicker, but, doesn't get as hard in the cold and acts more like a your tire would during the summer time, helping it stick to the pavement better when the roads are clear. There's a reason they heat up tires in by going through the water trap on a drag strip and doing a burnout to heat the rubber, making it softer, remember that.

Selecting a winter tire:

I'm a big fan of the old fashioned large aggressive lug myself. HOWEVER: pick the tire that best suits the road conditions for your area. In northern New England, our roads were usually snow, packed snow, or plowed clear. Rarely did we have a pile of slush sitting around. This is an important consideration, because slush/ice will need a different tire to be optimal than pure snow. Here is where I insert some pictures to illustrate, showing some of my snow-dedicated tires, explaining what made them good, why I picked them, and some limited downsides to the sort I chose.

Picture one:


Looking at this view of the tire, you see deep tread depth, and some imprinted slits inside the lugs themselves. The intent of a snow tire is to grab and hold as much snow as possible between the lugs. With a snow tire, you are trying to hold that snow trapped, because just like when you make a snowball or snowman, your traction doesn't come from the rubber sticking to the frozen water, it comes from the snow trapped inside the tire sticking to other snow.

When you make ice cubes in those flexible rubber trays, the ice cube doesn't stick to the rubber right? Just pops right out? Tires are the same way, rubber tires don't sticks to the snow on the road, it just traps it and uses the trapped snow to hold itself to the roadway.

This is the reason for those little slits as well. They fill with snow or build ice in side, which also grips the snow. It allows that flat rubber surface to have some kind of frozen water that transforms it into something that can grip snow/ice on snow/ice, instead of just being a flat surface of no traction. These are an important feature of a winter tire that all-season or performance summer tires (like you might find on someone's corvette or camaro) are lacking.

Picture #2:


Here you see a picture of the lug pattern. Notice several things here as well. Large, well spaced lugs with lots of area to trap snow in between them. Also notice the wide front-to-back channels that have irregular sides. This helps keep the car tracking in a straight line, HOWEVER also have irregular edges which aids in keeping the tire from skidding forwards as if ti was on mini-snow rails. Also note how the horizontal tread is wide deep channels, intended to keep the tire from just slipping forward and reverse.

Equally important is that the channels that run from side to side within the lugs have a wavy design, not straight in any direction, and in fact, the grooves do NOT line up with one another. this makes it so that the material being trapped cant be squirted out to the sides, and instead remains in place to be compressed as the car drives over it creating a nice firm snow to snow contact.

NOTE: that portion of the design feature is IMPORTANT for a SNOW tire. Performance and all-weather tires are designed to channel water away, not hold and trap materials inside. However, the degree of trapping you wish will to a degree decrease your wet road and SLUSH performance, where you want the fluid directed away from the tires.

These tires I posted are an old fashioned, highly aggressive design made for terrific snow contact. You can even see the holes where they could have been studded had I desired, I actually had a second set that only goes on during ice conditions that are studded.

Warnings:
* Snow tires are noisier, and are not the high performance speed rated tires you are used to.
* Snow tires do not give the same smoothness of ride typically as all season passenger tires
* Snow tires do not usually have spectacular tread life due to the different compounds used in their construction
* Snow tires are best in a higher profile, taller sidewall design which will affect feelings of body lean/roll if you drive aggressively
* Snow tires should be replaced sooner to ensure deep treat depth than the 3/32 standard, shallow tread reduces effectiveness
* Snow tires are not intended to allow you to drive the way you might on a sunny august afternoon. They just aid in better traction ability

Also, this is just my opinion and what I learned from driving winters, and family who spent their entire life working for Uniroyal. Take it as such, just an opinion intended to help, and talk to an independent tire professional in your location about your specific needs and desires. I recommend even if you do not buy from them, visit the small locally owned independent shops over a national chain - those guys not only deserve the business and will take care of you, but its their livelihood instead of just a job like the big guys... they are very knowledgeable and will help you pick something to suit your needs, and are there to help. If the price isn't right, then buy elsewhere, but they usually have a better selection and ability to get these harder to find old-style specialty tires.

If I remember anything I forgot, I will post it later, just figured I'd throw this out there for now. Hope it helps and informs someone.
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avengador1
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Report this Post11-20-2008 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for avengador1Send a Private Message to avengador1Direct Link to This Post
Here is a link to some of the best Winter tires you can get for your Fiero.
http://www.tirerack.com/tir...Compare1=yes&place=0
You also want to go to a minus size and four tires for best results.
http://www.tirerack.com/win...hpage.jsp?techid=126

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-20-2008).]

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Fiero1Fan
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Report this Post11-20-2008 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero1FanClick Here to visit Fiero1Fan's HomePageSend a Private Message to Fiero1FanDirect Link to This Post
Here in Germany the ADAC (The German AAA) does extensive testing of winter tires.
The best tested tire was the Goodyear Ultragrip 7+ in 195/65-15
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Report this Post11-21-2008 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadscannerSend a Private Message to MadscannerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:You also want to go to a minus size and four tires for best results.


Agreed - when I got my first Fiero in '84, and hit my first winter in Ottawa with it, I went out and bought 2 Hakkapeliitta snow tires - great traction, in a straight line...

A couple of days later, I went and bought another two - much better after that, and lesson learned!

Ciao!

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Report this Post11-21-2008 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
And Ill agree with everything CK posted in this thread. I didnt find a single thing to find issue with.
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Mister
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Report this Post11-21-2008 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MisterSend a Private Message to MisterDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the info

I'm running Pirelli snow tires and they have served me well for the last few seasons.
As you've mentioned it is important to remember that they are traction aid and do not provide complete guaranty for any road conditions. Driving skills and good judgment are your best tools.

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Eclipse
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Report this Post11-21-2008 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EclipseSend a Private Message to EclipseDirect Link to This Post
+'s for you! Good and educational read!

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Jay Brintnell
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Rainman
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Report this Post11-21-2008 03:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RainmanSend a Private Message to RainmanDirect Link to This Post
I've got my set of winter wheels and snow tires being mated at the tire shop as I type this.
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Report this Post11-21-2008 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by avengador1:

Here is a link to some of the best Winter tires you can get for your Fiero.
http://www.tirerack.com/tir...Compare1=yes&place=0
You also want to go to a minus size and four tires for best results.
http://www.tirerack.com/win...hpage.jsp?techid=126




I have used Dunlop's which have worked well in the snow.
Here is a link to all the Winter Tires that Tire Rack sells:
http://www.tirerack.com/tir...play.jsp?type=W&VT=C
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MOBILE
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Report this Post11-21-2008 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MOBILESend a Private Message to MOBILEDirect Link to This Post
Great write up.

I had to laugh when I saw your location of New Orleans!! Do you have another house in the snowy areas like we do here in MN?

lol

MOBILE

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Member MN Fieros Forever
Self Installed SC3800/getrag. 4 years in Avionics & 14 years in Car Electronics Experience........ 19"s.. w/ 13" Brakes all around.

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ckfiero
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Report this Post11-21-2008 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ckfieroSend a Private Message to ckfieroDirect Link to This Post
Appreciate the comments. I figured this would be a good write up seeing how there are many younger fiero owners, and many others who grew up in the FWD era and didnt know much about rwd cars...

In response to the question however, yes, 80 acres off the electric grid on a class IV privately maintained road about 30 miles from Canada in Vermont

Also, grew up living in a farm town of 400 people in the berkshires of massachusetts, driving a rwd buick, and later a rwd oldsmobile hehe
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Report this Post11-21-2008 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroboomClick Here to visit fieroboom's HomePageSend a Private Message to fieroboomDirect Link to This Post
Excellent writeup ck. You get a well deserved +

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Report this Post11-22-2008 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MOBILESend a Private Message to MOBILEDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ckfiero:

Appreciate the comments. I figured this would be a good write up seeing how there are many younger fiero owners, and many others who grew up in the FWD era and didnt know much about rwd cars...

In response to the question however, yes, 80 acres off the electric grid on a class IV privately maintained road about 30 miles from Canada in Vermont

Also, grew up living in a farm town of 400 people in the berkshires of massachusetts, driving a rwd buick, and later a rwd oldsmobile hehe


Looks like you grew up steering your RWD with the throttle like I did! LOL...

Sounds like a beautiful place to live.

I too can vouch for snow tires. I have had blizzaks on the family SUV and nothing beats them for the FWD people getting into RWD SUV's. People forget that 4x4 traction and acceleration does not mean you can stop on ice!! hehheh... My wife swears by them now.

Thanks again,

MOBILE


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ckfiero
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Report this Post11-22-2008 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ckfieroSend a Private Message to ckfieroDirect Link to This Post
In fact, I am (supposed) to fly back to New Orleans at 6am tomorrow.... guess what I saw when looking out the window this morning.....

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