Does anyone have a similar problem, or know the reasons why Pontiac dealerships are reluctant to service a Fiero. My local Pontiac dealership where I actually bought the car 25 yrs ago, will not do any service or repairs on my Fiero. I know that the dealership did change ownership over the years, but I don't think that is the reason.

Before Oldsmobile went belly up, the dealership here refused to work on my mom's OIds. They told her that it was too old for them to work on, that they didn't have the manuals needed, parts were no longer available, etc. Personally, I thought it was a crock and that they were lying to her, but given your situation, maybe they weren't. I directed her to a good local independant mechanic, and she never went back to the dealership.

Probabbly because no one at the dealership knows how!

This car intimidates alot of mechanics... but it's really not that difficult to work on.

Hell of a lot easier than my Bimmer, that's for sure!

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Petty Officer Michael C Casaceli
Aircraft Electronics Technician Second Class
AIMD Brunswick (2007-present)
Patrol Squadron Ten (2003-2007)
United States Navy

I work for a Chevy dealership and the majority of the techs are not familiar with the electronics on my 88 GT Fiero. They like the car but were kids when these cars were new. Most of them did not know my car has a cold start injector! Our shop is reluctant to work on older Corvettes. most dealerships do not have all the special tools and manuals to work on these older cars now. Many parts have been discontinued. Tried to find a reverse light switch for a Getrag lately? As far as basic service like replacing a water pump, or fixing an oil leak, most dealerships will be willing to tackle that. Just be aware that shop labor is getting pretty steep. New cars are much more reliable and require less maintenance. The dealerships are making up the difference by selling preventive maintenance, tires, accessories, quick lubes, and anything else to keep the bays full.

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: most dealerships do not have all the special tools and manuals to work on these older cars now. Many parts have been discontinued. .

I sort of agree with you...

But a car is a car, hasn't changed much in the 100 years since Carl Benz invented the thing. The Fiero certainly is not MORE sophisticated than the modern cars they work on everyday.

A good mechanic won't hesitate to work on a Fiero. I turn my own wrenches when I can, but sometimes I don't know how to do something or I don't feel like doing it and I take it somewhere. I've had to help out and supply parts from the Fiero store, so I can see why a dealer wouldn't want to deal with it. Your best bet is to find a small independent shop. They will be more willing to work with you.

Good luck.

A Pontiac dealer in Mississippi told me once that the Fiero was exotic and required special training to work on and his guys couldn't do it.

I didn't buy my new Grand Prix from him!

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I was once told that the dealerswhips had gotten a letter from GM telling them not to work on the Fiero. Someone around here in Michigan had a copy of the letter. It did mention parts but if I remember right it was more about that GM just wanted noting to do with the car.

I talked to the service manager at a local dealership and he said he had not seen such a letter but that at times GM did issue notices that they were to stop doing any recall and warranty on certain vehicles because of the age of the car and how hard parts were to get. While he said he had no problems working on my cars he did highball his prices so much that nobody in their right mind would pay them. ($3000 to replace plenum gaskets)

There are two main reasons - parts and manuals. If they don't have the manual, they are unsure of the process(es) involved for removing or replacing items. If the parts are not vailable, and they pull something apart and need it, they are stuck with a car in there they can't repair.

When I lived in VA I never had any problem. I had them replace a water pump 2.5 years ago.

You want the real reason. It all boils down to the good old buck... Shops run on flat rate... That spells out as a tech do you want to work on a 20+ year rusted, seized, can't find parts, can't find info, down time while waiting on anything or a 5 year old non rusted or seized, parts instock and no down time job. A down car on your hoist makes no money in your pocket as a tech. Oh yeah I guess you could push it off and bring another one in... But hey techs are lazy just like alot of us and it's only a job sets in.

The tech can turn 120% or better on flat rate and no problems... Be a tech, a service manager or a gm you still need to flow the work and a Fiero or any other out of the norm just jams ths system up.

Just my words,

Vince

if you go to any dealer with a car older than 7 years old most will not want to work on them.
parts are not avalible to them and most dealers do not want to do any major repairs on anything.
they want to do tune-ups and oil changes and warranty work where they can finnish fast and get paid anything that takes time cost the dealer money
and most times the dealer can not charge the customer what it would cost to be profitable for them so they would rather just say no.
I have worked on all of my cars myself but sometimes the job is to big or I get lazy and find a local shop to work on them.
I like working on cars when I dont have to but when they break down I would rather have a shop do it.

The "Flat Rate" book. They gotta know how much to charge you. They us e the flat rate book for that. If it isnt in the book, or files now, then they havent a clue.
Joe Crawford

quote Originally posted by VA RICR-ETR: There are two main reasons - parts and manuals. If they don't have the manual, they are unsure of the process(es) involved for removing or replacing items. If the parts are not vailable, and they pull something apart and need it, they are stuck with a car in there they can't repair.

I think this is the key item. I bet most new techs won't know how to read a code in a Fiero. They would search forever for the ALDL, of course only if they were to know that is the port. Then if part is not available what do they tell the customer? Bring a tow truck and get it out of here but pay me first?? Just common sense. I bet they woudl do the same with an 80s Vette or Mustang too.

I must have lucked out when I chose my current shop. I go to Dorais Chevy for all of my GM needs. They've worked on all 4 of my Fieros without pause. If there wasn't a part in stock, they let me know. They would try to find the part at another dealership and if that didn't work, they would be willing to try to find one aftermarket. And they tend to use the flat rate book as a guide only. If it takes them considerably longer due to something out of their control, they charge a bit more (and are upfront about it). If something takes considerably less time than the book calls for, they charge less. Their shop rates ($50/hr) are in line or less than the regional average. I've said this before but I have to say it again, if you're anywhere around the Wabash, In area, check out Dorais Chevrolet. I've been to many shops, both private and dealership owned in my life and I've never had the price or service that these folks have given me. They have my business for life.

Its nothing new to me, I had the same issue getting the recall done on my Indy in 88/89.

Even new, the dealers didnt want to work on them.

One thing I have learned around here, Dealer's usually hire the worst mechanics and are run poorly. "Mr goodwrench" certified means nothing, heck Lately I suspect ASE certifications.

I have always found the most competent Mechanics to be the small shop where the owner is wrenching along with everyone else.

Some places may have good luck and found a honest and competent dealer, But I have yet to find one in Michigan.

This seems to be a very individualized thing. I've seen some pretty good support from various Pontiac dealers as far as sponsering shows etc. and then I hear about the ones who don't welcome our cars in thier shops. When I bought my Fiero 2.5 yrs ago, I approched the local buick/pontiac/gmc dealer cautiously because of comment made here on the forum. They welcomed me and took my suggestion to call the Fierostore for ball joints, etc. It helps alot if you have some sort of relationship with them. If your car is really really rough, modified, etc., etc. they probably would not want to work on it. It boils down whether they can make a buck. Flat rate should not be a restraint on non-warranty work. When that dealership closed, the nearby Chevy dealer solicited work on our 8 yr old Grand Prix......have not tried them with the Fiero, yet and hope I won't need to.

The bottom line for me is if they don't wanna work on my car...the feeling is mutual. No need for them to do me any favors by working on my car if they are not comfortable to do so. I appreciate it if they tell me in a professional manner that I should look elsewhere, but too many times they make lame excuses instead. Both times I've had work done on my car by a shop, I asked up front if they were willing to work on a Fiero.

and GM wonders why they've been crashing...sheesh.

Our local Honda dealership still services my wife's Civic Si, a '94! ...& reasonably i might add!

I don't buy the "not having manuals argument"...We live in such a information age,
where any information on anything is available 24/7....only need a keyboard..!

Well, from my experience as a tech at a Ford Dealership, we didn't have any manual books more than 12 yrs old. And dealership don't even buy the books anymore because they're on a computer now. So we used Ford Dealer tech website for all the manuals, diagrams, and tests but Ford would only keep the manuals for the cars for ten yrs. anything older was deleted and inaccessible. Now, aside from the fact that most techs that know a car as old as the Fiero, most new "techs" can't do anything without a manual to walk them through the repair. With all that in mind, no flat rate tech would touch a Fiero unless they're starving for hours.

Shawn

quote Originally posted by shawnhalolush: ...no flat rate tech would touch a Fiero unless they're starving for hours.

I still have to disagree. The shop/dealership I go to stays at least as busy as any other shop in the area and they've worked on all 4 of my Fieros. One of the service writers has a mint '85 coupe but they still worked on my Fieros before he was there and I have no doubt that they'll work on any future Fieros even if he leaves some day.

I took my 86 to the local Pontiac dealership in San Jose to have the handbrake replaced and they didnt make any fuss.

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My Fiero History. Rachel and Abby

I AM Fiero Fotographia, Myspace Fiero and Gornitzka Photography

[This message has been edited by CaliforniaSpeeder9 (edited 08-20-2008).]

Our local Benz dealer doesn't work on cars over 10 years old. They don't have techs that know how to work on them. That's good for me because they send them my way.
Dave

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1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (daily driver), 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

quote Originally posted by 84 Fiero SE: I don't buy the "not having manuals argument"...We live in such a information age, where any information on anything is available 24/7....only need a keyboard..!

And money. those on-line manuals are not free. Unless you somehow "acquire" the bootleg versions, which no legitimate business should do. I can see how a dealership doesn't want to be bothered.

Most people with 10+ year old cars don't want to pay the dealership labor rates anyway. I always take my Fieros to a freind's shop when I get a job I don't want to do.

FWIW, I just got off the phone with "my" dealership. Here's what they said. (Note: this is coming from a GM licensed dealership. Although I would imagine most car companies are similar, I can't speak for any other than GM.) Nothing is on paper any longer (since '99 or '00). Everything is on-line. They said that there isn't an actual fee for the on-line manual use. It's part of the GM licensing agreement between the parent company and the actual dealership so while you can't break down the exact cost of the on-line manuals, they aren't free by any means. The dealership said that there are alot of dealerships who don't work on older cars because the official GM documentation isn't around any longer. The on-line manuals don't go back more than 10 years or so (except for some of the very popular vehicles and then it's only spotty) so, if someone doesn't have a copy of the original paper manual, the shop just can't get all of the info. Maybe a Chevy dealership had to borrow a Fiero manual from the local Pontiac dealership in the past. Once the Pontiac dealership goes out of business (or moves), the manual(s) may be lost (or "borrowed" by an employee). Then the Chevy dealership can't work on anything specific to the Fiero unless they just happen to know about the issue personally.

If this post has contradicted any statements I've made so far, I apologize. This came directly from the dealership not 10 minutes ago.

First of GM does not own the dealerships. I work at a GM dealership, I do NOT work for GM. Next every dealership has different owners and policies. IMO if a place (dealer or not) does not want your money or your car then do not push the issue....find a place that does. The dealership I work for hosts a fiero car show every year, and after I discount all the fiero work I do through the dealer I work at I am sure they do not make money much money either from fieros.....just they know the big picture and know we also own buicks and grand prix and such. I agree fieros are not much different from other cars but still they are old and awkward so you are going to have to put up with the mechanics who would rather slam some brake pads in a Grand Prix rather then source a rear caliper for a fiero.

Pete

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quote Originally posted by Monkeyman: If I had a friend with a shop (who, I would assume would charge me the "friend" rate), I might take it to his/her shop, too. jscott---How do the "normal" private shop rates compare to the local dealership rates?

My experience is about the same as yours. I find at local shops I'm looking at $50- $60 an hour and the dealership might be closer to $80. My friend will sometimes cut me some slack and install parts I bought from the Fiero store, or install a part for "free" if I hand it to him while he's performing a bigger job for me.

But he's never complained about the car being difficult to work on. If I had a guy like Pete working at the local dealership I would go there in a heartbeat, but most of the guys here are not going to take enough interest to want to work on the Fiero.

I think we're all acutely aware that we're on our own. Most private shops won't work on these cars.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by timgray:


One thing I have learned around here, Dealer's usually hire the worst mechanics and are run poorly. "Mr goodwrench" certified means nothing...


I have to agree with this. My Pontiac dealer wanted my van for an entire day to replace a seatbelt under warranty. I begged them for the part and changed it within 5 minutes in the parking lot. I was actually relieved when the warranty was up so I didn't have to tie up an entire day just to hear them tell me to bring it back again after they ordered parts. My Chevy dealer took over a month to get a sun-visor ordered and replaced. I guess they weren't too concerned about keeping repeat customers.

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 08-20-2008).]

quote Originally posted by carnut122: [QUOTE]Originally posted by timgray: One thing I have learned around here, Dealer's usually hire the worst mechanics and are run poorly. "Mr goodwrench" certified means nothing... I have to agree with this. My Pontiac dealer wanted my van for an entire day to replace a seatbelt under warranty. I begged them for the part and changed it within 5 minutes in the parking lot. I was actually relieved when the warranty was up so I didn't have to tie up an entire day just to hear them tell me to bring it back again after they ordered parts. My Chevy dealer took over a month to get a sun-visor ordered and replaced. I guess they weren't too concerned about keeping repeat customers.

These all seem to be management issues to me with very little to do with the mechanic's competance. It's not like the mechanic was going to spend 8 hours replacing your seatbelt. We just had a similar experience (3 hrs to re-glue rearview mirror!), but I would not blame the mechanic/technician unless I see clear evidence of poor workmanship. Our shops are $100 and up per hour so maybe they get a more qualified technician. It's unfortunate they ARE chasin good customers away sometiems.

quote Originally posted by 1MohrFiero: A Pontiac dealer in Mississippi told me once that the Fiero was exotic and required special training to work on and his guys couldn't do it. I didn't buy my new Grand Prix from him!

Im from MS, what dealer was it?!

I am just outside Rockford, IL, and I am lucky to have a shop who's service manager is a Fiero guy and NIFE member. However, I do recall the Pontiac dealership working on my first Fiero years ago and charging me a ton to replace a whole bunch of parts...none of which were even related to the problem as it turned out.

just tires refused to do an alignment on my fiero but the pontiac dealership around me is itching to work on mine i dont know why. i drove up there a few weeks ago and ALL THE SALESMEN WERE CROUDING AROUND IT

my dealership is a toss up somedays. althougth i don't have a driving fiero right now.

the formula firebird, they take and don't ever complain, (i would v8 stuffed in there, fun times) but they are excelent there

my dads truck, 4.3 same with mine. mine is a 95 his a 06. prev. i had a 93 4.3 and a before that i had a 85 with a 350. dealer has never chased us away. unless it was something the part was not worth paying the gm price for.

and somtimes it depends on the parts guys. get to know them and it helps. oh and i always get the courtesy vehicle, even though i told em i don't need it ever.

so i don't worry. if i need something i just talk to them ahead of time and work it out. they will come pick up my car/truck from work and do it during my work day. cost me bout 15 bucks for a full service. i have them do once in a great while, if my shop is full or i don't have the time.

ok rambling over. idk if that helps or hinders this discussion

quote Originally posted by fieroturbo: Probabbly because no one at the dealership knows how!

This is the key. Manuals and Tools aside, I have met people in the business who don't even know what a Fiero IS! I went to a Grand auto once and asked for a Fiero part and the parts clerk asked if that was a truck!

Think about the average age of a tech. Now think about the age of the Fiero. Most of these guys were soiling their diapers when the car ended production.

The local Chevy/GMC dealer here will work on them, but they take forever to do anything. I have a good local shop that will do anything on a Fiero from an oil & filter change to an engine change. Not inexpensive, but they are good.

Now, when I lived in San Angelo--a different story altogether. The mechanics actually went out the back door when I drove into an open bay, and the service writer tried to tell me "No--Pontiac never made nothin like that thing..........".

If I recall correctly GM and any of it's dealerships has to support any car for 10 years. (Not sure if other manufacturers/dealerships have to do it as well, But it does seem to be standard around here.) So technically they don't have to support any car that is 1997 or older. Since many cars stay very similar for a number of years, It usually isn't a problem. But like our Fiero's there isn't many parts that were used back then still in use today. Many of the OEM parts were bought out by places like the Fiero Store. If a dealership refuses to work on any car older than 7 years, I would find another dealership or call the GM zone office.

As mentioned above, Dealerships are individually owned so they can set their own policies.
Around here there are three dealerships in the area that have mechanics who have experience with Fiero's. Two of the dealerships still have a few Fiero parts in their parts room! (very limited parts, But they do have some)

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-24-2008).]