Iv'e wanted HID lights on my Fiero's for a while now but am worried about whether I will get pulled over for having them.
From what Iv'e read they are technically illegal unless your car has them installed at the factory. (i.e. newer cars such as
BMW's and Mercedes) I'm also worried about whether I will be blinding oncoming cars.

Please give me your input/experiences/opinions....especially those who have them here in California.

Thanks, Kit

Personally I hate the HID lights, takes 2-3 minutes to recover after being blinded by them. I know the drivers behind them like them, but they are a bear on the receiving end.
sparx22

[This message has been edited by sparx22 (edited 08-22-2008).]

This topic has been discussed a lot on PFF, so Search should return quite a bit of information for you. As a starter, you can check out this link to a good thread on the topic. Below is the Cliff's Notes version, based on my research:

1) It is illegal anywhere in North America, Europe, or Japan to install (retrofit) an HID capsule into a housing originally designed for a halogen bulb. More specifically, it is illegal to install (or even import with the intent to install) any of the many "Xenon HID conversion kits" being advertised on eBay.

2) It is illegal in the U.S. to install any headlamp assembly (lamp + optics + housing) that is not clearly marked "DOT," meaning that it meets U.S. Department of Transportation standards. In Canada, headlight assemblies marked either DOT or ECE (European Union standards) are permitted.

3) Installing DOT-compliant HID headlight assemblies into a car originally equipped with sealed beam (as in the Fiero) or halogen headlights is a gray area. It appears to be technically illegal, since DOT requires that both the headlight assemblies and the installations be certified as compliant, and only the car manufacturers are able to certify the installations. As a practical matter, you will probably be OK as long as retrofit headlight assemblies are clearly marked DOT, are installed properly according to DOT regulations, and are aimed correctly (see below).

4) Regardless of other considerations, all headlights must be properly aimed to comply with U.S. DOT requirements. Here is a good reference. Proper aimimg is particularly important for HID headlights, since their much higher light output makes glare a much bigger issue.

Be aware that HID headlights on an older car are likely to attract attention, some of it unwanted, due to the many illegal HID conversions cruising around on the streets today and blinding oncoming drivers with high-intensity glare. Extreme blue lights (color temperature > 6000 K) are even more likely to attract unwanted attention. But if your headlights are clearly marked as DOT compliant, the required markings are visible from the outside with the assemblies installed, and they are properly aimed you should have little problem. Better lighting is good.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-22-2008).]

And here's the Cliffs Notes version of Marvs Cliffs Notes. Unless you live in a state that requires a physical inspection of your vehicle, just aim the darn things so they don't blind me! I'll bet you a pair of dirty sweat socks (and a pocketfull of lint) that, if you aren't blinding anybody, you'll never get pulled over for having HIDs on a non-HID equipped vehicle.

OK I know they are illegal and yes I have them both in my car. I have been running with HID for a while now and have not been pulled over by the authority (lucky I guess). There are so many HID knockoffs out there that yes they are bright but not enough light on the ground and I think the authority sometime let it go. I think to each each own.....I don't have any problem with them whatsoever as far as the authority is concern. My opinion I think you should go for it. You've seen me roll with them at the Coast run? Practically all the boyz at Fieros West are now sporting HID's in their Fieros. Just make sure you aim it right and you're good to go.

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http://members.cardomain.com/koolflip

[This message has been edited by kooljess (edited 08-22-2008).]

If you really must have HID headlights, than do everyone a favor and get the dual 90mm buckets and the HID version of the hella 90mm modules. those at least dont blind the hell out of other drivers because they are decent quality and have shutters to keep the light from going into the oncoming drivers eyes. The cheap kits are junk, and if you are blinding people, the first cop you blind will give you a very expensive lesson.

Legality, what legality? We don't need no stinking legality, hehe. Get outta my way!

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 08-22-2008).]

quote Originally posted by timgray: If you really must have HID headlights, than do everyone a favor and get the dual 90mm buckets and the HID version of the hella 90mm modules.

FYI ... if using Timo's buckets, the (expensive!) HID version of the Hella 90 mm low beam assemblies won't quite fit without modifying the Fiero's headlight doors. The 90 mm D2S HID modules are considerably longer (at the rear) than the H9 halogen versions, which fit just fine.

Otherwise, I agree that the Hella 90 mm modules, both the H9 halogen and D2S HID versions, are excellent DOT-compliant headlights.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-23-2008).]

Night vision;

i had HIDs on my blazer for the low, high, and the fogs. 6000k so they looked white. rolled right up behind cops, and they didnt seem to do anything or care. im looking for an affordable set of bixenon 6000k H4 bulbs to use on my already existing balasts for my fiero. i dont think coppers are really going to be making a deal about them in other cars unless they are a rediculous color of light. like purple, thats just a dumbass color to use for lighting your way in the dark.

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Night vision;

lol that looks good, I wonder how it would look with murcielago headlights, it think it would look pretty good although those suckers cost $2000+ a headlight.

Everyone talks about legality on here. Did you know cutting off your catalytic converter is illegal? Anyone with an engine swap I really doubt has a cat on their car. It's illegal to speed as well, but we all do it. I have had HID's on my car since 2006 and never had any issue. If people flash their brights at me, well maybe they should get some HID's themselves instead of bitching about my upgrade All I'm saying is, there are thousand things that are illegal. Hell it's illegal to lower your car in some states.

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Not to pick a fight, but its also illegal to smoke weed, and its illegal to rape children. Few care about the former, but the latter gets a lot of attention because it pisses people off. Id like to get a bigass spot light mounted on the front of my car so I can return the favor going down the road. And I've actually considered installing super bright backup lights on a switch to get people to back off so my mirrors dont melt. Though I looked at a CLK500 that comes equipped with something like that. If you cant see at night, maybe you should get your eyes checked rather than blinding everyone else on the road.

Of course what is getting worse is the blinding tail lights Ive started seeing, granted, red light doesnt knock out your night vision as much, I cant see **** around the car in front of me because all I see is bright red light in my face. Its not going to make you any "safer" when you get rearended because I cant tell the diffrence between your tail lights, brake lights, or the damn sun.

That, and smoking, make me wish there was some way you could be certified to become a citizen officer and issue limited citations. Every time I see someone throw a cigarette on the ground it makes me want to pick it up and hand it back to them, someone has to pick that up you know ******* , the world isnt your ashtray.

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: Everyone talks about legality on here. Did you know cutting off your catalytic converter is illegal? Anyone with an engine swap I really doubt has a cat on their car. It's illegal to speed as well, but we all do it. I have had HID's on my car since 2006 and never had any issue. If people flash their brights at me, well maybe they should get some HID's themselves instead of bitching about my upgrade All I'm saying is, there are thousand things that are illegal. Hell it's illegal to lower your car in some states.

here here!

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: Everyone talks about legality on here.

Topic: HID Lights....let's talk about their legality.

i may be off base but i live in ohio and this is merely my opinion i think cops plain out target certain cars example my 98 gst eclipse spyder no matter where i went i got stopped i could be going ten under the limit and and going to wal-mart lol and get stopped and i have no rice mods other than headers no fart cannon etc, my minivan(laugh you know you want too) i have blown by cops going 10 over the limit and they dont even blink and the fiero i think im doing everything illiegal that could get me stopped and and they dont stop especially the window tint issue. sorry so long my point is if your car is known for speeding around town or you look like the cheap knock off fast and the furious car with the huge wings loud cannon and flashy decals the your going to get stopped and they get more out of certain sports cars than others there not going to stop you over headlights. imo dont drag attention to your car like listed above theres nothing funner to a city cop than the friday night ricer runs lord only know the ricers try it here and the cops are always at it.

Has anyone with HID's ever been pulled over or ticketed for them? I have never heard of any instances.

I plan on running HID's on the Fiero when I get around to it. I run yellow foglights on my GTI and run them all the time at night and have never had an issue.

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'88 GT- 257rwhp 319rwft/lbs (9/07) 12.657@110.19mph 1/4 mile (8/08)
www.gmtuners.com

the only thing i have heard of for tickets involving colored headlights was beack in the early millenium when "ricer" kids would use those blue headlights. they would only get pulled over if they were doing something dumb and they would get a ticket for that and if the cop wanted to be a dick, they would hand out tickets for the color of their lights. i havent heard of a person getting a ticket for ever off-colored bulb, but it would be funny depending on who it was.

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: Has anyone with HID's ever been pulled over or ticketed for them? I have never heard of any instances. I plan on running HID's on the Fiero when I get around to it. I run yellow foglights on my GTI and run them all the time at night and have never had an issue.

I actually got pulled over once about a year ago. Cop asked me to shut my brights off. I laughed and told him that all Fieros come stock with HID's. I showed him that my HID's were my regular lights and my brights did nothing. So basically all in all, he told me to have a nice night and thought my car was cool. So if you ever get pulled over tell the cop that HID's are factory on Fieros.

I sell HID lights to a lot of people where I am at locally and I will take a moment to point out the plug and play HID light kit for Fieros on ebay right now:
Fiero Plug and Play HID Kit

Anyways, these are my observations from being around HID lights for a while.

1. Most people hate them on other peoples' cars until they have a set themselves.
2. It is illegal to get the blue colored halogen bulbs. It is just as illegal to get HID lights. No difference in the law there. The concern is not that HID lights are bright, but that they have not been checked out by the DOT before use in most cases.
3. In most states it is illegal to modify your exhaust to the point that it is louder than an OEM Exhaust system. Most of the modifications we do to any car are not legal anymore...
4. If you stick with 4800K - 5000K color HIDs for your headlights pretty much look like they belong there.
5. Do not run the 55w HID kits because they are too bright. If it was a rally car, that would be fine but I recommend the 35w setup.
6. It is safer to use HID lights for these reasons:
a. See more while driving at night.
b. Less eye fatigue while driving at night because of the color of the light output.
c. HIDs are less likely to fail than a standard Halogen lightbulb.

I say go for it. You will love it and they will look much nicer on your car! Like it has already been previously stated - if you simply take the time to properly aim your headlights you will not have a problem with them.

[This message has been edited by Oslo (edited 08-25-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: I actually got pulled over once about a year ago. Cop asked me to shut my brights off. I laughed and told him that all Fieros come stock with HID's. I showed him that my HID's were my regular lights and my brights did nothing. So basically all in all, he told me to have a nice night and thought my car was cool. So if you ever get pulled over tell the cop that HID's are factory on Fieros.

Good one.

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: I actually got pulled over once about a year ago. Cop asked me to shut my brights off. I laughed and told him that all Fieros come stock with HID's. I showed him that my HID's were my regular lights and my brights did nothing. So basically all in all, he told me to have a nice night and thought my car was cool. So if you ever get pulled over tell the cop that HID's are factory on Fieros.

IIRC, failure to dim to oncomming traffic is a ticketable offsense. Of course that is the advantage of not being a prick when you get pulled over, you dont get every ticket possible, so cudos there. Still, if you're getting stopped for driving with your brights on, that should tell you something about what other drivers are thinking.

A friend of mine installed a small aircraft landing light on his MGs rear bumper. He saves it for dumb azzes who follow close with their brites on. At least if they wreck, there behind him

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: I actually got pulled over once about a year ago. Cop asked me to shut my brights off. I laughed and told him that all Fieros come stock with HID's. I showed him that my HID's were my regular lights and my brights did nothing. So basically all in all, he told me to have a nice night and thought my car was cool. So if you ever get pulled over tell the cop that HID's are factory on Fieros.

Seems the cop was a moron then. My first question was, then why do you have a dim and brights setting switch in your car if it was a factory light? Now it might be better to explain it was an OPTION rather than a factory deal. Being an option leaves room for interpretation as well as an explanation for the available switch in the car. Just my 2 cents tho

1. It IS NOT illegal to install HID systems that are built to meet FMVSS 571.108 AND comply with the original lighting design for the vehicle.
1A. That means a product like Osram Sylvania Xenarc 6054 replacement lamps are completely legal in a Fiero.
1B. All similar HID systems built as replacements built specifically for replacement of either a traditional standard Tungsten/Halogen headlamp number OR built to be used as a complete OEM system replacement are legal. (By complete OEM replacement it has new buckets lenses etc to replace the body contoured lamps now on many cars.)
1C. Sylvania and a couple other major companies in the lighting business won a ruling against NHTSA that specifically makes most of their products 50 state legal for road use. http://www.businesswire.com...01006398&newsLang=en

1D. When doing your own custom lights or buying such online, all bets are off. Odds are nearly all of these are illegal for one or more reasons. This can include most options that use actual headlamps. Anything that doesn't use an actual headlamp, like those based on driving lights, are pretty certain to be completely illegal.

2. ALL lamps that produce wattage over FMVSS 571.108 limits are ILLEGAL. That includes a large number of aftermarket headlamps and some other lamps.
2A. Turn/park, tail, and marker lamps that are not bright enough are ILLEGAL. This include the vast majority of LED lamp replacement products on the aftermarket. (It usually does not include complete LED based assemblies like those now seen on many commercial vehicles. It could include such an assembly modified by a buyer to fit applications beyond the manufacturers design.)

3. There are only a very small number of HID systems on the market. Nearly all "HID" on Ebay and elsewhere are Halogen ripoffs that are frequently illegal for street use. These lamps frequently fail wattage limits, are poorly focused, and blinding everyone in front of you.

4. Poorly aimed lamps of any design are going to perform poorly and often blind everyone in front of you. This problem CANNOT be cured by replacing lamps. Whatever slight gains you may get, you're most likely just blinding even more people in front of you.

5. While it's listed last... Electrical problems are the number one cause of dim lighting other than a defective lamp. Electrical problems CAN NOT be cured simply by replacing a lamp. Installing higher wattage lamps on a vehicle with electrical problems will make the electrical problems WORSE. It could even cause a fire.

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(Jurassic Park)

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quote Originally posted by theogre: 1C. Sylvania and a couple other major companies in the lighting business won a ruling against NHTSA that specifically makes most of their products 50 state legal for road use. http://www.businesswire.com...01006398&newsLang=en

Thanks for that citation. I was unaware of it. At the very least, that NHTSA ruling appears to permit responsible lighting upgrades to our Fieros as long as they are standards-compliant.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-26-2008).]

Found this about the Sylvnania Xenarc lights, don't know how accurate it is but it sure seems like they were/are junk.

http://www.candlepowerforum...wthread.php?t=177109

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Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

Xenarc... Whatever the quality I don't know. They were the handy example as it were. The ruling should apply to any "upgrade" lamp system that complies with FMVSS.

Keep in mind that many regs still don't allow a complete redesign of the light system even if you use DOT rated lamps. You can replace the lamps with better lamps in the same format, say anything H6054 related, but changing to any other lamp family like using the 4 lamp format may not be legal.

Again... Allot of that crap running around Ebay etc IS NOT legal. Allot of it is flat out crap as it is but it's illegal on top of it because of wattage and other problems.

Anything that doesn't at least use some kind of actual headlamp IS NOT LEGAL. No Fog/Driving lights are going to pass as headlamps. If you are stopped or fail an inspection it's your tough luck.

And something many aren't aware of... The doors or other covers/mechanisms have to open within a certain amount of time under FMVSS. Custom systems must still comply. No inspector is likely to time your doors but obviously slow doors/covers could get you a fail. That includes a slow factory door.

And one more time... If you have "dim" lamps the first two things you need to be doing is checking aim and wiring. Putting a higher wattage lamp in a car with wiring problems is a good recipe for disaster. No lamp will perform on sh_t wire and aimed at a ditch or tree tops.

It's funny... Many people seem to be able to grasp that F'd wiring is why the power windows run slow, or power locks won't work at all, but hardly anyone seems to get it that the exact same problems are why the headlamps are dim on a huge number of cars. In fact installing a set of heavy relays to run the lamps is a pretty cheap easy and effective upgrade. It does away with most of the switch contacts that are a major source of voltage drops in the circuit. It shortens the high current part of the circuit by a bunch of wire and connectors as well. Many of you already run driving lights this way but it just doesn't catch on.

quote Originally posted by Kitskaboodle: Iv'e wanted HID lights on my Fiero's for a while now but am worried about whether I will get pulled over for having them. From what Iv'e read they are technically illegal unless your car has them installed at the factory. (i.e. newer cars such as BMW's and Mercedes) I'm also worried about whether I will be blinding oncoming cars. Please give me your input/experiences/opinions....especially those who have them here in California. Thanks, Kit

You could get the German low profile round headlight conversion, and then get DOT approved Hella 90mm HID modules. Looks really cool, and is legal. I think they're self levelling as well, not sure though. They definitely won't blind people as much as they're projector type.

Remember to get 4500k-5000k anything above that just has a pretty blue-ish, or purple tint to it and is actually darker.

i had 6000k in my blazer. those looked to have the whitest light to me. but a lower kelvin would light much better.

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: You could [use the] DOT approved Hella 90mm HID modules. ... I think they're self levelling as well, not sure though. They definitely won't blind people as much as they're projector type.

The Hella 90 mm modules are indeed excellent headlights, and they are marked DOT "VOL" compliant. But they are NOT self-leveling, and they will "blind people" just like any other bright headlight if they aren't aimed properly. Of course, when properly aimed they will produce far less glare than the illegal HID retrofits into halogen housings. Did I mention that proper aiming is very important?

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 08-29-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Of course, when properly aimed they will produce far less glare than the illegal HID retrofits into halogen housings.

Yea, that's what I meant. Regular halogen housings, not the projector type housings. ;-)

The projector type have a more focused beam and a razor sharp cutoff, vs. halogen enclosures.