I remember back in the 60's that a guy driving a 20 year old car was considered to be a hick. If it was a 20 year old Caddy, he was a hick with a sense of class.

Now I drive a 23 year old Fiero, and I wonder if the drivers of Miata's, Eclipses, and the like think I'm a hick? Just wondering

Arn

yes - kinda nice that the Fiero is very near the beginning of when cars got good. must be that computer managed engine thingy, eh? or - was it improved manufacturing? both - of course. clean running makes for long running. while I agree 100% a non-computer controlled car can run clean for a long long time - I dont think my mom could do it. good for you if you can.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I wonder if the drivers think I'm a hick? Just wondering Arn

Hmmm...Don't think so

When I drive mine - Uninformed people are usually stumped when they hear it's an 86.
An Gear Heads just look, listen and nod their heads in agreement.

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T-Top ~HUD~LEDs ~Red Fieros~Carputer~Montreal Club

I remember thinking in the 70s that those cars from the 50s - early 60s were so yuck. Only if it was a nice Corvette it was ok. I hope kids today think of my two old cars like I did with the Vette...

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes - kinda nice that the Fiero is very near the beginning of when cars got good. must be that computer managed engine thingy, eh? .

This is my thoughts... in my opinion carburetor are a nightmare. Maybe okay on a highly tuned race car, but for an everyday driver in all kinds of weather, it is very tricky.

The Fiero is in the first generation of computer managed fuel injected cars that you just turn the key and they start. That combined with timeless styling has made the Fiero a very nice 20+ year old car.

If you were driving a 50s car during the 70s people would have looked at you like you were crazy. But a Fiero still fits in with today's cars.

In my opinion, a well-kept, aero-nose, ground effect, Fiero is timeless. (NB or FB) At least until you see the interior. New, larger diameter rims go a long way toward updating the look of any Fiero.

The 87-88 coupe design is nice, too, and kind of timeless looking. But the earlier bumper pad coupes look dated.

quote Originally posted by pswayne: But the earlier bumper pad coupes look dated.

True. I didn't like the bumper pad look when it was new. But to each his own.

.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-21-2009).]

I had a 53 chev and a 57 chev in the early sixties.

Both cars had arround fifty thousand miles on them, the 53 had had an engine overhaul, the 57 had had it's engine replaced, and I replaced it again two years after I bought it. Then the Transmission went.
Cars had a much shorter life cycle than they do now it was rare to see a car with 100,000 miles on it

It was considerably cheaper to do an engine replacement then. As I remember my 57 Chev engine(Long Block Assembly) installed and tuned at a GM Dealership was just under $450.00 Cdn which was about par with the US$ at the time. Proportionately it was a huge amount of money. I had a good job and was grossing arround $60.00 a week.

I switched to a carb. It took alot of R&D because there are so few on the 2.8. However, it was a learning curve and my next carb'd engine will be so much easier.

Carbs are actually very reliable. Yes, there is occasional tweaking (I had to adjust my idle 1/8 turn this spring), but when they are set up they stay that way. No electronic bits to go bad, and, when something goes wrong, generally the car will still run and you can drive it home.

It all depends on what you want. If you are comfortable with analysing failed or cranky electronic parts, ECM's and a zillion vacuum hoses and fittings then the MPFI is the way to go. If you want to check things with a Voltmeter, Vacuum guage, and a screw driver, then a carb is what you want.

It is all preference. Remember, the ladies were driving carb'd cars for many years before EFI came along, and the cars ran fine. That said, my missus drives the family Olds, not the Fiero.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I remember back in the 60's that a guy driving a 20 year old car was considered to be a hick. If it was a 20 year old Caddy, he was a hick with a sense of class. Now I drive a 23 year old Fiero, and I wonder if the drivers of Miata's, Eclipses, and the like think I'm a hick? Just wondering Arn

Times haven't changed. You have.

I agree with Arn
I had numerous cars with carbs and once set they all ran pretty smooth and reliable.
Plus, not having all of the computer and electronic systems they can pretty much be
fixed on the side of the road. I would much rather pop two bolts off of the side of the block
to replace a mechanical driven fuel pump than have to drop the gas tank to get at the pump
inside.

quote Originally posted by Tinkrr: Cars had a much shorter life cycle than they do now it was rare to see a car with 100,000 miles on it

I think you've forgotten about all those Model T's with upwards of half a million miles on them, and the carbureted pickup trucks that are still on the road and logging well over 200,000 miles, or the taxi cabs that did even more

Arn

quote Originally posted by RACE: In my opinion, a well-kept, aero-nose, ground effect, Fiero is timeless. (NB or FB) At least until you see the interior. New, larger diameter rims go a long way toward updating the look of any Fiero.

True. The design is clean. That is why I like it.

The interior is a disgrace.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: I agree with Arn I had numerous cars with carbs and once set they all ran pretty smooth and reliable. Plus, not having all of the computer and electronic systems they can pretty much be fixed on the side of the road. I would much rather pop two bolts off of the side of the block to replace a mechanical driven fuel pump than have to drop the gas tank to get at the pump inside.

yes - as mentioned - some folk can keep carb'd car running just fine. my mom cant.
some of us LIKE to mess with our cars regularly. its fun. MOST dont tho. all it comes down to.

That`s true, that because of all of the advances made in the automotive industry the cars run cleaner and more efficient. The downside of it all is because all of the analyzing machines required now and the specialized training needed to work on the cars of today the cost of automotive repair has gone out the roof. I am reading a book that was written back in the 80`s about a guy that travels across country in a 70`s van and at one point he has to have his water pump replaced. The repair plus the price of the pump is like 35.00 and that`s at a Ford dealer. Now it would probably take 1/2 a day and cost about 800.00 to get a pump replaced because of all of the stuff that has to come off of the engine just to get to it. Not long ago I had the intake gasket replaced on my 2002 F150 just because it was under warranty and the check engine light came on. I had to pay only the deductable but the total bill was about 750.00. Just to replace the intake gasket and some bolts.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 05-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes - as mentioned - some folk can keep carb'd car running just fine. my mom cant.

True I haven't driven a modern car with a carb...but I remember my pontiac 350 carbed V8...and I remember how in the wintertime I had to pump the accelerator 9 times before there was any prayer of it starting. I remember when fuel injection came along and you just turned the key and it would start everytime. I didn't miss the carb at all.

I think that the majority of people don't even pay attention to cars nowadays, look at how much garbage is being pumped out into the streets, nobody knows any better now. Don't even worry about what people think, they don't know what they are talking about... 1967 mustang PWNS a 2007 mustang any day of the week (and you can keep going on and on)

Nobody cares about their cars like they used to back in the day. Granted, there wasn't as much of a variety, but they all meant something to someone. Now they are cookie cut with no emotions included.

Yes, I remember when a 20 year old car was old...and I remember when Safe Sex meant having a padded head board too......

ROTFLMAO ....

Arn, I remember in 82 dad gave me his "old" 73 Plymouth Satalite (383/727) because it was too rusty to be fixed anymore, and he thought a muscle car would be a good idea for a kid with still-wet ink on the drivers licence.

He was right, 9 years old and that thing was rust held together with bailing wire and bondo. Back then the spedo's were in miles.

But...sheeet...............you have never lived until you have burried a 140 spedo--going UPHILL--on a 6% slope. (403 hill thru Hamilton).

There is a lot of good to be said for 9mpg, youth stupidity, and large motors

quote Originally posted by HC: Don't even worry about what people think, they don't know what they are talking about... 1967 mustang PWNS a 2007 mustang any day of the week (and you can keep going on and on)

...unless you are talking about:
0-60 (more power)
braking (bigger brakes)
turning a corner (better front suspension geometry and rack and pinion)
driving in inclement weather (traction control and ABS)
getting in an accident (airbags+shoulder belts)
listening to the stereo (4 speakers instead of 1)
cold-starting the engine in below freezing weather (fuel injection)
or using the AC (better HVAC system)

In virtually any situation where a person is in contact with the car, the 2007 is a superior vehicle by a long shot.

Ok Arn, from one old fart to another.........if you were driving a tomato can domestic run-of-the-mill 20 year old 4 door sedan.....people would consider you a hick. Driving a Fiero is a totally different thing because the cars were not run-of-the-mill. These cars were radically different and cool when they out and they are even cooler today. Let's face it, your standard 4 door sedan was never considered cool - it was always considered basic transportation that's why very few 4 doors are considered collectible.
Old fart Gene

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: ...unless you are talking about: 0-60 (more power) braking (bigger brakes) turning a corner (better front suspension geometry and rack and pinion) driving in inclement weather (traction control and ABS) getting in an accident (airbags+shoulder belts) listening to the stereo (4 speakers instead of 1) cold-starting the engine in below freezing weather (fuel injection) or using the AC (better HVAC system) In virtually any situation where a person is in contact with the car, the 2007 is a superior vehicle by a long shot.

Not to mention...

Better gas mileage in newer mustang, quieter in cabin, more comfortable for trips, more reliable over distance, etc, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like old cars, and love the early Mustangs (I restored a 65 when I was in college 15 years ago). However, they're not as nice as the newer ones for any reason other than you don't see them and they are antiques...

Most of the guys I work with can't believe the Fiero is a 20+ year old car. We have a lot of young engineers that move over from Europe and have never seen or heard of the Fiero and know nothing of it's bad reputation; so they're just judging based on what they see.

Most of em aren't surprised to see the engine under the rear decklid.
They generally think it's less then 10 yrs old just judging by the looks of it.
They think it must be a pretty reliable car since I'm putting 500 miles a week on it commuting to work and not having any problems with it. I drive the oldest car in the parking lot and have the longest commute of anyone in the building.

I don't really get razzed at work about driving the Fiero.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: ...unless you are talking about: 0-60 (more power) braking (bigger brakes) turning a corner (better front suspension geometry and rack and pinion) driving in inclement weather (traction control and ABS) getting in an accident (airbags+shoulder belts) listening to the stereo (4 speakers instead of 1) cold-starting the engine in below freezing weather (fuel injection) or using the AC (better HVAC system) In virtually any situation where a person is in contact with the car, the 2007 is a superior vehicle by a long shot.

I agree with all of the above except for the nostalgia factor and not driving what everybody else is driving. Which brings us back to the Fiero. BTW, I like the Fiero interior as it to is very unique and it bespeaks of the car's cutting edge(at the time) styling. AS far as old cars, my mom's best car when I was a kid was a 56 Buick Special(two toned choral pink and white). The car lasted up until 1972 when lack of oil sent it to the bone-yard. I have to admit that at the time, I was embarrassed to be seen in it. Then she bought a 64 Beetle (58 mph top speed going down hill with the wind at my back!) and I wished I had the old Buick back!

im with arn on the upsides of a carb, i really like the simplicity of them and the lack of fancy gidgets, im only just now 20 and ive been working on carbed cars for a while i even traded a 95 S/C rivi for an 85 caprice 4 door with the carbed 305 because i know how that one works oh and it looks like a cop car. and for the few on here that know thouse are the resons im building a carbed 4.5 for my fiero getting back to the basics

It takes a while for a car that was ahead of it's time to get old. Hence, the kiddies in high school that stare at me when i drive by.

quote Originally posted by zetabird: im with arn on the upsides of a carb, i really like the simplicity of them and the lack of fancy gidgets, im only just now 20 and ive been working on carbed cars for a while i even traded a 95 S/C rivi for an 85 caprice 4 door with the carbed 305 because i know how that one works oh and it looks like a cop car. and for the few on here that know thouse are the resons im building a carbed 4.5 for my fiero getting back to the basics

LOL, well, I've know Arn a couple yars. and I can tell you he is a very smart man. Plus he know how to build a motor .

This one day I am on the 401 (3 lanes each direction, major highway) and Arn blows by me in his little black demon. The sound coming out of his pipes drowned out the truck stereo. Even a Harley dont do THAT . You are dead-on wth the carbs. $25 worth of jets, and a 48-cent screwdriver will fix it forever. Nevermind this 5 grand worth of sensors and diagnostic computers to do the exact same thing !

Carbs... You ain't tuned til you've done a pair of Solex SUs or 3 dueces with progressive linkage . STill to this day I occasionally find myself wanting to pump the accellerator a couple of times before a cold start. Old habits die hard!

The nice thing about the older cars was I could change almost any external part in minutes instead of hours. But then again they were not quite as reliable and required more frequent tune ups.

Im an old Carter AFB/ AVS guy myself. Holleys were a nitemare as were Rochesters. I can bolt on an AFB and go. I just put a brand new one (now Edelbrock) on my Coronet v8. Cost $210 with nothing else to buy. Bolted it on, connected the linkage in 20 mins. Got out the vacum gage but didnt need it. Idle speed, mixture were already perfect. Hardest part was finding a hot wire to connect to the electric choke. It starts quicker than any of my current cars including the vette and 20K Magnum. No cranking at all, barely hit the key and purrs...not even 2 seconds. Maintainence...wont have to touch it for 20 more years. And if i stay out of it, gets around 18 mpg on the highway. Indy Cyl Heads makes a 4 bbl conversion for the new generation Hemi engine so you only need the computer for spark control since theres no distributor. They put out almost identical numbers on and off the street as the FI system, except takeoff and response are vastly improved.

My 88 vette has an idle problem when warm and garage gave me an estimate of around $900 to make it idle smooth. Thinking about throwing it all away and putting an AFB / 4bb intake on it too. Around $400 for all. The only thing I will give you is that FI running right generally does give better gas mileage.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 05-26-2008).]

You have to figure that when I was in college circa 1967, a 20 year old car would have been a post war '47 something. Cars of that vintage usually had enging failure at 50K miles and were in junk yards 10 years before. I remember having a 83 Pontiac 6000LE, bought new and the dealer said four years later that you had to trade a car in by 50K miles to get anything in trade value. I traded that in for my 87 Fiero GT, and still got a poor trade in value with 66K on the clock. Cars weren't made that good in the 60s-80s. The dealers expected a trade in every three years and the cars were made to last 3 years. Even today an affordable car (<$15K) is crap, but they should last six or seven years to 100K miles without too many problems with the car. If it is well maintained maybe 150K miles.

I think the point has been made that a 20 year old car is not nearly as old as it used to be.

It's sad that it also means that automotive technology hasn't changed that much. Yeah we have OBDII and CAN and a bunch of other acronyms, but the basic technology is the same.

Too bad we aren't flying around in turbine powered cars laughing at the piston driven cars with wheels.

I said essentially the same thing as Old Lar said, based on personal experience in the early sixties,

"You have to figure that when I was in college circa 1967, a 20 year old car would have been a post war '47 something. Cars of that vintage usually had engine failure at 50K miles and were in junk yards 10 years before."

somehow it got misconstrued into my being against carbureters and me having to keep a watchful eye out to ensure I don't get caught up in a stampeed of reliable model T's, carbureted trucks, and taxis

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I remember back in the 60's that a guy driving a 20 year old car was considered to be a hick. If it was a 20 year old Caddy, he was a hick with a sense of class. Now I drive a 23 year old Fiero, and I wonder if the drivers of Miata's, Eclipses, and the like think I'm a hick? Just wondering Arn

Nope, Fiero owners are as unique as the Fiero itself! Miata's look like Snoopy's head (especially the white ones) and Eclipses? HA! I get that image in my head of that ad with the dopey girl in the passenger seat wearing the tam doing that goofy techno dance (beautifully spoofed on the Chappelle Show years ago).

Here's scary, I remember going to a POCI (Pontiac Oakland Club International) show in 1988 in my uncle's 1968 GTO like it was yesterday. Saw the last Fiero to roll off the assembly line there. Anywho, that GTO is 40 now!

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=-Eric the Dread

1988 Fiero GT 2.8L V6
2001 Grand Prix GTP SC3.8L V6