It IS NOT the 13* trick. I had that, now I have these same cams. There is no comparison.

SEE:





At least wait for us to get some decent numbers with a well tuned engine before we release specs. And BTW, we didnt have to use lash caps, so they aren't that much bigger.

-Jeff

You just might hit 230whp after you're done tuning.

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: It IS NOT the 13* trick. I had that, now I have these same cams. There is no comparison. SEE: At least wait for us to get some decent numbers with a well tuned engine before we release specs. And BTW, we didnt have to use lash caps, so they aren't that much bigger. -Jeff

Why are there 4 of them??? Did you build 4 different engines?

O and Josh, I'm well aware he didn't build the engine, and I also know you had a large part in getting the engine in the car. But, he came up with a lot of the ideas used in the swap, and decided which parts he wanted and didn't want in the car. So, no, he didn't build it, BUT because of him, this car was built the way it was.

WoooHOoooo!!! I finally got a neg from this thread!!!

[This message has been edited by Racingman24 (edited 04-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Racingman24: Or better. This engine is soooo underestimated by everyone on the forum, yet it is perfectly suited for the Fiero. Good combination of power and torque stock, plus lots to be gained, and the high redline works great with the gearing in the manuals.

Go find some freakin H.I.D. components ...................

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Go find some freakin H.I.D. components ...................

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Thanks for the link. That thread is a great resource!

No problem! That's why we started it!

I think that 230 is more than obtainable, and yes this engine is well suited for the Fiero. My 13.807 run at the track before the cams shows its potential.

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: I think that 230 is more than obtainable, and yes this engine is well suited for the Fiero. My 13.807 run at the track before the cams shows its potential.

Is that all motor? No power adders? If so, that's impressive!

I've always liked the 3.4 DOHC, but my thinking has been, if I'm doing an engine swap anyway, why not go for more power? The 3800SC isn't much harder, or even do a SBC. This thread definitely has my interest. I want to see just how well this combo can perform once it's fully tuned.

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: I think that 230 is more than obtainable, and yes this engine is well suited for the Fiero. My 13.807 run at the track before the cams shows its potential.

how the hell did you get 13.8 before the cams? I thought I had the best time at 13.9 with a good performance rebuild.

EDIT: wait I forgot when I ran that time, I had stock timing, skinny street tires, slipping clutch, and that was before my UDP.

somewhat off topic, but hopefully a quick answer... is it possible to do 6/6 timing while the eingine is in the car? i still have it set at stock for now, but want to do 6/6 because of good torque for daily driving. thanks

------------------
1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street.
... ... !
350ci 400hp/tq SBC, 4 bolt main
Spec Stage 3, Nitrous Oxide, many extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

[This message has been edited by flames4me (edited 04-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Puckhead: I present to you......LORD and LADY DOUCHEBAG!! -T I guess you use the forum not as a place to share ideas but a place to talk sh!t to large numbers of people.......you are a turd

Wasnt talking **** . People making a big deal out of nothing.

I hope we can still be friends

quote Originally posted by fieromadman: It IS NOT the 13* trick. I had that, now I have these same cams. There is no comparison. SEE: At least wait for us to get some decent numbers with a well tuned engine before we release specs. And BTW, we didnt have to use lash caps, so they aren't that much bigger. -Jeff

I notice the surface finish on the lobes is different than most cams. Comments?
You didn't have to use lash caps.. so this place is actually welding up the cams to obtain longer duration/larger lift? It'll be interesting to see how they hold up.

I have put several thousand miles on my cams with no problem. No, they didnt weld, they just took away from the base circle. The hydrolic lifters were able to accomidate for the difference in height as seen here by me testing the assembly with plastigauge:

Putting the plastigauge bewtween the fully blead hydrolic lifter and the valve stem to check for pressure from the hydrolic lifter:


And the result:


And my 13.807 could have easily been turned into a 13.7 if I had more time at the track. My 60' times sucked ass too. It was opening day and busy as hell so they didnt care about the track. That was completely street trim with the heavy ass 18' wheels, 235 tires in the rear, full subwoofer system, half a tank of gas and a heat soaked engine. At that time I had the 13* overlap trick with the cams, under drive pulley, k&n, spec stage 2, poly mounts, egr delete, idler pullies for A/C and P/S, 180* t-stat, custom exhaust, custom chip and that is about it besides the sweet stickers that give me 5 hp each! lol... I have video of the run but I dont know how to post it. Stick that in your L67 and smoke it.

-Jeff

(edit: I forgot a few mods I had done)

------------------

--180* t-stat, cams, 96-97 intake swap, FFP pulley, A/C Idler, flowmaster exhaust, EGR delete, K&N filter, chip--
--Check out the Fiero Kingdom!--

[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 04-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by 88GT5.0KILLER: Wasnt talking **** . People making a big deal out of nothing. I hope we can still be friends

It's cool.......I was in a pissy mood.......my bad


-T

Be excellent to each other, and..........PARTY ON DUDES!!!! -Abraham Lincoln

Well I did a couple of fuel pressure tests to see why it was running so lean. It looks like the fuel pressure starts to drop as the RPM's increase. At WOT it starts out at 46 psi, then slowly drops to 42 psi. So I have purchased a high performance fuel pump to throw in. According to the data I am recorded, it also shows that the stock injectors are just about maxed out. So I just puchased a set of 36lb 3800 SC injectors from greengoblin0129 to add in.

Anyone know if these injectors will plug in to the 3.4 DOHC harness, or if I need to get the 3800 injector harness and cut and splice? If so anyone have an extra harness?

[This message has been edited by bluefiero (edited 04-17-2007).]

quote Originally posted by bluefiero: Well I did a couple of fuel pressure tests to see why it was running so lean. It looks like the fuel pressure starts to drop as the RPM's increase. At WOT it starts out at 46 psi, then slowly drops to 42 psi. So I have purchased a high performance fuel pump to throw in. According to the data I am recorded, it also shows that the stock injectors are just about maxed out.

That's a good sign!

re: injectors, I think it depends on the year...

The stock fuel pressure regulator runs about 42 lbs normal but it is connected to the intake vacuum via a small vac line under the plenum. When you hit the throttle the change in vac causes the regulator to up the pressure a bit and then as the engine catches up and it stabilizes it returns to the stock setting.
Sounds like yours is operating normally.

------------------
Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

If he's running a stock fiero fuel pump, I could see fuel delivery becoming a problem...... especially if it's older or original!

I put the vette pump in mine last summer, it seemed to help.

I just dyno'd my 3.4 dohc today. 218 at the rear wheels. It's got stock 97 internals with an underdrive pully, cold air intake with a K+N filter. Exhaust is through stock manifolds into a 3" downpipe and a Ferrari 355 muffler. I'm running a 92 ECM (MAP based) from Darth Fiero. The chip hasn't been tuned yet and was running real rich. A few more hp could probably be found with more dyno time and some tweaking.
Today was the baseline run before a Garrett GT32-76 turbo and intercooler install. It'll be a few months before it's totally complete. My goal is at least 300hp at the wheels.

[This message has been edited by gt40racer (edited 05-02-2007).]

I'd certainly be interested in the details of that turbo install if you'd care to share.

right now it's a pile of parts but basically I've got a GT32-76 ball bearing turbo that will be installed with a custom intake. 42 lb injectors, 2 bar MAP sensor, higher capacity fuel pump run by a 3.1 turbo gran-prix chip. The intercooler will go in the trunk area. My car is a Ferrari 355 replica so the deck lid has lot's of ventilation for the intercooler. I'll post pics as it takes shape. Send me an email in a month to remind me.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I don't care about DOHC motors, but wasn't qwikgta and fierobscessed talking about cams similar to the W41 way back in the day?

Nope... not me. Hell, I can't even get my swap done. Have not done a thing on it in over 6 months. Just got other things going on.

RJ

------------------

88 TTop coupe (96 3.4DOHC/5 speed in progress)
03 Vibe GT. 6spd
05 GTO, LS2, 6spd
01 Sonoma SLS, 5spd, ZQ8 sport suspension

I have a question on the dyno runs mentioned. What gear did they run your cars in when they got the data? The runs I have had done on my car have always been in fourth gear on the five speed manual. One of the guys at work said he always heard that running in third gear on the dyno would give a closer to crank shaft horsepower reading. I have a stock 92 DOHC and it has only shown 164HP for the highest reading two years ago running it in fourth gear. I had the exhaust cams retarded 13 degrees of crank rotation during that run. This year the best was 157HP without the cams retarded also done in fourth gear.
Kris

I have a 97 new crate motor in an 88 coupe with 5 speed Getrag. Running OBDl.5 and sequential fire. Did not use a dyno but a GTech meter on a very hot 95 degree day last summer and it showed 190hp at the wheels but that was overcoming drag etc. I had the car weighed a few minutes before the run and these things are supposed to be accurate within 3% so it looks like I'm right in line. Running completely stock motor otherwise. 0-60 was 5.85 and quarter mile was 14.41 but would like to make a run on a nice cool day to see results if any effect.

[This message has been edited by Mike Murphy (edited 05-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by kmunson56: I have a question on the dyno runs mentioned. What gear did they run your cars in when they got the data? The runs I have had done on my car have always been in fourth gear on the five speed manual. One of the guys at work said he always heard that running in third gear on the dyno would give a closer to crank shaft horsepower reading. I have a stock 92 DOHC and it has only shown 164HP for the highest reading two years ago running it in fourth gear. I had the exhaust cams retarded 13 degrees of crank rotation during that run. This year the best was 157HP without the cams retarded also done in fourth gear. Kris

They did a pull in both third gear and fourth gear for my car. They both gave basiclaly the same resuilts. 216 vs. 211 and 215 vs. 211.


Still waiting on the high volume fuel pump I ordered. I ordered it two week ago from monday and still have not received it. The store says they were closed for a week and were behind, and said it should have gotten here yesterday, but of course it did not. I also now have larger 36lb fuel injectors from a 3800 sc motor to put in. Just waiting till after the milwaukee mile this weekend.

how much are you guys paying for dyno runs? I'm just curious on what they normally charge on average. thanks.

------------------
1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street.
... ... !
350ci 400hp/tq SBC, 4 bolt main
Spec Stage 3, Nitrous Oxide, many extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

Figure on $80 an hour, maybe 5 pulls in an hour.

Mine was in fourth gear. This particular shop charges $150/hr but that includes tuning in conjuction with the dyno runs.

Looks like the second design heads make some difference in output. I am going to start looking for a 96 up engine to build before I go to turbo charging. That will probably be a couple of years down the road.
Kris

Any updates?
Get any tuning done with these cams yet?

Just curious but does it really make sense to compare Dyno numbers, specifically HP/Torque, that are from different machines? I thought most Dyno's were used as a tuning tool, that different mahines in different locales tend to give different numbers and from what I've heard most shops numbers tend to be overstated simply because it's what the customers want to hear.

Taken from one of the many articles I've read concerning Dyno numbers:
"A shops use the dyno primarily as a tuning tool, not as a means to brag (Customers usually do that - erroneously, and usually on the internet.) Whats important is that a dyno operates consistantly from run to run, and from day to day."

Isn't it a tuning tool and using them to make absolute claims of HP kind of missing the point? I'm sure the HP and torque numbers are probably close to actual but most likely not exact and more than likely slightly overstated. I do have to agree the numbers have to be closer than the ole seat of the pants meter but still have to be taken for what they are with a realization that they can be manipulated.

------------------
Don't take life too seriously -- you'll never get out if it alive.

quote Originally posted by DRA: Just curious but does it really make sense to compare Dyno numbers, specifically HP/Torque, that are from different machines? I

When the difference is great enough to be unattributable to the dyno alone, we can at least see that there was some increase or decrease in power from the baseline. We can also look at the powerband... but you're right, comparing numbers directly, especially when they're within 5 or 10%, is really not worth it unless we have readings from a few different dynos to see the range of readings.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: When the difference is great enough to be unattributable to the dyno alone, we can at least see that there was some increase or decrease in power from the baseline. We can also look at the powerband... but you're right, comparing numbers directly, especially when they're within 5 or 10%, is really not worth it unless we have readings from a few different dynos to see the range of readings.

Thats pretty much what I had gathered, I definately see the really indespensible data that can be aquired for tuning purposes (getting a baseline for gauging improvement or loss of performance with changes) but was just a little confused as to the actual validity of comparing HP numbers of different cars from different locations. From what I have gathered I understand it's not unusual for tha actual HP rating accuracy to be as far as 18% off on some setups, but that the data is not gathered for exact accuracy of the HP rating but rather to show differences changes make to those numbers.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 05-10-2007).]

Dyno runs on my car have been put on hold until more funds arrive to purchase bigger injectors. After talking to Darth about it, I think it's necessary to upgrade those at this point. Still curious to see what good tuning and a few more tweaks can give this engine with the cams.

------------------

--180* t-stat, cams, 96-97 intake swap, FFP pulley, A/C Idler, flowmaster exhaust, EGR delete, K&N filter, chip--
--Check out the Fiero Kingdom!--
Beater: Flat black 90 CRX with a JDM D15 VTEC <--ballin'!

No updates quite yet. Have been really busy lately getting my turbo 3.4 pushrod fixed and getting ready for prom this weekend. I was able to get the high performance fuel pump in the car yesterday. Tonight and Tomorrow I will be putting the bigger injectors in. Then it is time for some tuning!

Well I was finally able to get the car tuned. I kept going around in circles about 5 times with some company who sold refurbished fuel injectors. I was supposed to receive 32 lb fuel injectors from them, but they ended up shipping me the wrong injectors. I put them in, recorded data, and was told by my tuner that they were not big enough. So I had to ship them back, and the company sent me another set, and then the same thing happened 4 times.

So I finally gave up and purchased a set of accel 36 lb fuel injectors off of ebay for a good price. It was an eight pack too, which I was lucky for. I drove the car to fort wayne indiana to get it tuned on friday, and switched the injectors when I got there. We started tuning and found out the 3rd cylinder wasnt firing. One of the injectors was shot. Of course it had to be one of the injectors underneath the intake plenum, so that had to come off again. We tried hot wiring the injector when we got it out and It wouldn't work at all. The coil was bad on it. So luckily I had 2 extra. So the car is now tuned and ready to be put back on the dyno. I have made a reservation for next wednesday the 18th.

Does it seem any faster? Will be interesting to see the results. Did he tune with a wideband?

It does seem a little faster, but I am also finally able to redline it now. Before I never did because of how lean it was up high. He did not tune it with a wideband. We did a lot of open throttle runs on some country roads by his house. he also burnt me two extra chips to try. One is is 2% richer, and one is 2% leaner at full thorttle. I will be doing a dyno run with each chip with the wideband hooked up. From the wideband readings I get I will be able which chip is best.