I my 87 GT on the road after not having motivatino or the need to use the car in two years. I did start the car a few times while it sat in the garage so the car would stay in good condition/
When I first got the car out I thought the A/C bit the dust as it only put out warm air---but stupid me I had the slider to the warm end. Once I slid it over the a/c came out cold. This got me to thinking...how many Fiero's are still running around with R12.

I've owned my car for seven years and I haven't done any a/c service. I also have the complete service history and the a/c never was serviced. Is my car an anomaly? I'm taking the stance of leaving well enough alone and not touching anything until there are problems. Luckly a few weeks ago I did find a can of R12 so if it does need a little I can take it to my friend (who has a license) to put the gas into the system.

My 88 formula has all the original equipment and blows ice cold. I think a properly maintained original system should still function.

The A/C compressors commonly develop a leak around the shaft seals and when neglected, ends up putting Black Death all through the system. Most people realize that the A/C is expensive to fix and neglect it or try to "explain it away" when selling the car by trying to say that leakage is normal. For some reason, a LOT af cheap bas****s bought fieros and neglect them and the A/C seems to be a common item that never gets fixed if it fails.

mine still has R12 in it, but thats mostly cause i have about 60-65lbs of it left in a tank.

my father bought it before you needed a license to buy it.

matthew

My 86 GT still uses R-12. It started to get a little less than frigid this summer, so I threw another can of R12 and oil charge in. Blowing ice cubes once again. I've owned this car for 4 years now, and it blew cold when I bought it. I have no idea when it was last charged, but it doesn't seem to leak anything other than trace amounts.

I'm starting to use up my personal stash of R12....slowly but surely. When that happens, I'll convert. I converted my 84 Corvette to R134 back in 2000, and finally had to add a can this year.

Anyhow....add one to your list of cars still using R12

I decided last month that my '87 coupe needed air. Estar oil and R134A in the system and I'm reasonably happy. I used the A/C out of my '86 extra car to replace an A/C compressor with a bad shaft. It would be nice to have R12 but, the cost was a lot different. I agree with the neglect statement, my '87 GT needs the A/C charged as well.

Brian

Count me among the people still running R-12. Mine has been low for the past couple of years and has been blowing warm air, but I haven't driven the car that much, so it really hasn't affected me. This year, however, I found someone I trust with my car that is licensed and can add the R12 to it. Now, to find a time when the two of us are both available so we can recharge the system..

quote Originally posted by Hank is Here: I've owned my car for seven years and I haven't done any a/c service. I also have the complete service history and the a/c never was serviced. Is my car an anomaly?

YES! For an a/c system to still be blowing cold for never having been serviced after all these year...that is very unusual. I've had new cars start blowing warm after 5 to 6 years. It's very difficult to keep an a/c system tight enough to retain a charge.

I'm still running R12 in mine, too. Fortunately, I've got the EPA license so I can buy more if needed.

Converting cars like mine (86 V6) to R134A isn't a simple plug-and-go operation. The AC compressor that came on earlier V6 cars doesn't handle the increased pressures in a 134 system very well - they tend to tear themselves up pretty quickly usually. Don't want pieces of grenaded compressor in the system, so a new updated compressor is needed for a successful conversion.

I'm sure some have put 134 in these older systems and gotten away with it. I'm usually not that lucky. And for the price of a compressor, I can buy enough R12 to keep this thing blowing cold for a long, long time.

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: My 88 formula has all the original equipment and blows ice cold. I think a properly maintained original system should still function. The A/C compressors commonly develop a leak around the shaft seals and when neglected, ends up putting Black Death all through the system. Most people realize that the A/C is expensive to fix and neglect it or try to "explain it away" when selling the car by trying to say that leakage is normal. For some reason, a LOT af cheap bas****s bought fieros and neglect them and the A/C seems to be a common item that never gets fixed if it fails.

I have 134a in my Formula and it works just fine. We're having a heat wave here and the car is fairly comfortable at 100 degrees F. The car uses about a can of 134a per year.

In my AC box (all my ac tools and supplies go in there) I have two 12 oz cans or R12. Got them from a neighbor lady. So I only need three more to convert my system to R12. I keep watching for them at yard sales and flea markets.

Kinda funny, I think, wanting to convert back to R12.

...still running R12 in the 88, untouched since we owned it (20 years) - still blows cold, I think not as cold as it use to, but way colder than our newer (2003) truck does...

Mine hasn't worked since I got it five years ago. But we dont use them much here in the northeast.
I guess i'll have see if I can get it fixed some day soon.

quote Originally posted by Brian Lamberts: I have 134a in my Formula and it works just fine. We're having a heat wave here and the car is fairly comfortable at 100 degrees F. The car uses about a can of 134a per year. In my AC box (all my ac tools and supplies go in there) I have two 12 oz cans or R12. Got them from a neighbor lady. So I only need three more to convert my system to R12. I keep watching for them at yard sales and flea markets. Kinda funny, I think, wanting to convert back to R12.

you have the right idea, R12 is a far superior refigerant, the only thing wrong with it is the CFC part (anti-ozone). just make sure you find your leak, you dont wanna loose all your R12.

my car is a 134A car. doesnt work all that well.

[This message has been edited by Jrgicehc (edited 07-05-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Brian Lamberts: I have 134a in my Formula and it works just fine. We're having a heat wave here and the car is fairly comfortable at 100 degrees F. The car uses about a can of 134a per year. In my AC box (all my ac tools and supplies go in there) I have two 12 oz cans or R12. Got them from a neighbor lady. So I only need three more to convert my system to R12. I keep watching for them at yard sales and flea markets. Kinda funny, I think, wanting to convert back to R12.

The total system capacity when running R12 is 2.5 pounds - 40 ounces. You've got a pound and a half already - just one more pound and you're golden.

Have not had to work on ac other than adding a small amount of
refrigerant about 5 yrs ago. I follow the theory of turning on the ac
periodically to help the seals last.
Original owner 87GT

My Ferrari it used R12 with no problem ever...and froze you out. Same with my 88 vette. Ive had the vette switched over, and my van and Magnum both have 134. None of them are cold. They might keep it 15* cooler than outside, but thats it. Another fine example of ' new ' is not always better.

I am very successful at converting R12 systems to 134a and have no problems with cooling. When I convert, I update the pressure and temp switches to work with 134a. This will turn on the cooling fan at 250psi as opposed to the 300psi.
To be absolutely honest with you, German cars are ungodly ahead of the American and Asian cars. They have technology in their cars American engineers haven't even thought about yet....BUT when it comes to A/C, the Germans have no clue.
I find the 134a systems cool better than R12. It is less messy to disconnect the hoses, and pressures are always the same on expansion valve vehicles. When my Fiero had R12 it would blow ice cold, but in a little car 134a would do just fine.
Before I continue rambling, I believe we went through all this A/C talk a month ago.
Dave

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1999 Mercedes ML430, 450hp 1987 Fiero GT, 1986 Fiero SE-soon to be 3800, certified master technician
www.njautobahn.com

For the first time since I bought my personal Formula several years ago, I have working A/C this summer. Because I have access to a large quantity of legally-reclaimed R-12, that's what I'm still running. But if I did not have access to R-12, I would convert to R-134A without hesitation.

K maybe this is a stupid qustion but iv never had a car that had ac that worked. Whats R-12 or R134 and so on, One colder then the other? I do know my grandpa fills his own that he buys at the semi shops.

quote Originally posted by slinger: Whats R-12 or R134 and so on ...

R-12 and R-134A are both refrigerants. ("Freon" is a trade name you may recognize that is used for several different refrigerant types.) One is not inherently "colder" than the other ... in fact my home freezer uses R-134A. R-12 has been illegal to manufacture or import into the U.S. for almost 15 years, due to its destructive effect on the stratospheric ozone layer, but it is still legal to reclaim and reuse old R-12. R-134A was introduced in the 1980s as an environmentally friendlier replacement for R-12, and all car A/C systems manufactured since about 1993 have been designed to use R-134A. Legal R-12 is still available for older A/C systems, but R-12 is now much more expensive than R-134A due to its relative scarcity.

There are lots of sites on the Internet that explain the basic principles of refrigeration and air conditioning. Look around.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-06-2007).]