Ok to start this off, PLEASE no bashing each other over which is better!!! I already know there are good parts to each swap and theres thing I LIKE about each swap..

I'll be getting 2 new Fieros after the first of the year, and hoping to eventually do a swap for both. I have the ability to get decent priced engines if and when I really need to.

From reading Posts on the forum, I've determined the following:

the 3800 is best used with an auto trans and can get down to the 11s modded and 13s more or less stock. it can also be ran with a SC or a Turbo.

the 3.4 DOHC is best used with a getrag? or isuzu? 5spd and can be Turbo'd

what 1/4mile times have been seen from the 3.4? and what setup ran them? what kind of $$ was spent to get there? (minus the cost of the engine)

same with the 3800. What kind of $$ was spent to get down to say 12 sec flat??

(edit) has anyone tryed increasing the displacement of either engine??


thanks
Josh

BTW I'll prob just do one of each LOL

------------------
Fiero, it inspires Insanity...
If you can't find a fire extinguisher, pour Sprite on it

-=Will Work For Fiero's, parts, $$, anything Fiero related=-

[This message has been edited by NSAN1T (edited 11-28-2006).]

each engine has its advantages, each transmission has its advantages.

you get opinion when you ask something vs something...

Would you imagine that if I post about 3800's it must come from 1000's of hours of reading, and even as many hours of application of working with the 3800's. However, it is a biased opinion at that point, because I dont work with 3.4 DOHC's. Just as if someone that works with 3.4 DOHC post in this thread, he does not work with 3800's. ..

Like you indicated, you build both, you test both, then you have a valid opinion about both. However application of each is going to determine the opinion and final result.

The 3800SC is the best dollar for dollar application today. Mod'ing the engine is really easy. You can get the engines from 0 miles to high miles, and price falls in $500 to $4000....The engine makes lots of power for 231 cu in, and its torque is pretty broad.

Transmissions are the limiting factor. Wow, we can ENGINE dyno 400 BHP, but now we have to have a transmission that can deliver that to the tires, and tires that actually stick and grip.

12 second cars are not made of just engine. They are a combination of the right parts in the whole car. 13 second cars however, can be just good engines, on good transmissions, with good tires. Average stuff in other words..

I built a 12.73 second car with just an Stage 2 intercooler, TOG exhaust, and 72mm throttle body. It was on a 2.93 ratio 4T65eHD. Tires were the typicial 245x45x17's in a good brand ( I forgot the brand ). The build is here > http://www.fastfieros.com/projects/kevin3800sc/kevin3800sc.htm



Then in 2003, I built a engine that should have dyno 400BHP easy. I put it on a GETRAG Fiero transmission. Runs a 12.24. Pitiful. 282 GETRAG's do not have good ratio's for high HP, and high torque applications. Then there is the cables, the shifter it self... Then the worse... The human element of having to concentate to shift 3 times in 1320 feet in 12 seconds.

Automatic transmissions in the Fiero is the fastest way from point A to point B in 1320 feet. So where you measure your performance, is a factor as well. Road racing events, or run and gun events would require different approachs.

As to rebuilding a 3800 block.. the forged pistons are $800. Not very cheap considering you can buy 2-3 engines for the cost of building a really big engine. The blue engine I built in 2003 had a price tag of $6000, just in the engine. The build is here > http://www.fastfieros.com/carssold/88GTwhite3800/88GT5speed.htm



Loyde

Exactly... its the Biased opinions that I'm kind of looking for. I know your experience in the 3.8s and I know that based on your exeperience and the experiences of other pffers that the engine is a good reliable engine and I know what abilities it has more or less...

The main question is... based on a poor mans budget.. and time frame... which of the 2 swaps can I get done the quickest and with the least amount of fuss..

Budget --> after engine purchase > $500 or so...

trannys available on hand.. the factory slush box and a 4spd muncie...

I can get a hd auto trans, but its going to take from the after engine purchase budget.. so in the mean time.. which of the trannies I have will work best with the stock version of the Engines and then be replaced at a later date, when modding of the engines starts...

If I go with a 3.4DOHC, I already have some mods design for it...

If i go with a n/a 3.8, is the stock manifold good for turboing later? or can I build an equal length intake for a turbo setup??

basically.. I want different opinions on which engine tranny combo will be best suited to tie me over till I can budget a new trans and mods...

anyways.. Thanks Loyde.. you've always been helpfull. and if there was anyway I could afford it, I'd just send one to you for a 3.8 swap. LOL

Having done 3.4 DOHC, turbo 3.4DOHC, and 3.8SC I have a pretty good idea of it all.

Personaly I would not even consider a 3.8 N/A, for a little more (maybe the same $$ in some cases) and the same work you're getting more HP and a lot stronger engine.

Difficuly:
The coolant routing is basicaly the same for both (east)
The wiring is pretty much the same complexity for both
The mounts are far easier on the 3.4DOHC, bolt in almost
Fuel lines are'nt difficult on either
Both need the ECM programmed for optimal performance
Throttle calbles are pretty easy

If you're going to run an auto, use the 4T65E-HD, again no point using an inferior tranny when you can have stronger for the same work.

As for speed, Ive never run the 3.4DOHC, but its rumored to be 14.1ish. The 3.8SC\auto will get you 13.80s stock (ported exaust and 3" mandrel) and I ran consistent 13.60s after I had the ECM reprogrammed.

As for reliability, IMO the 3.8SC wins hands down. Now granted Ive never run the best condition 3.4's and im hard as hell on them, but the GM 3.8L was the longest production V6 engine in history, and boasts unrivaled reliability.

Tranny, the 3.4DOHC works best with the Getrag 5spd, you can actualy use 1st, winding it out to 7k, and its geared well for the engine.

As for cost, I think I had less than $1500 in my turbo 3.4DOHC including engine turbo IC WG BOV and CF clutch. The 3.8SC I had $1500 just in the drivetrain, but im sure you can find an engine package cheaper, but I highly recommend getting all the parts from one car.

Wish I had $$ right now... a 99 3.8 with SC for 650 and the auto tranny that goes with it for an extra 350.. dang it...