With all the recent rain in south eastern NC, this has been bumped from a slightly annoying factor, to "i've got to do something about this!"
I replaced the belts on my 2.5L maybe about 6-9 months ago. They are still in great shape and the car is running in excellent condition. However, everytime it rains--even a little--without any exception, my belts squeel everytime i begin to take off. And by take-off, I mean accelerate. I know some of you are extreme motorists, and take off means pavement ripping force. Im just a humble, daily-driver, 30+mpg 4cyl Fiero.
Is there anything I can do about this, or is it just nature of the beast...and by beast, I mean Iron Duke.
If it's the beast, is there anyone who has successfuly dropped a 1.9L dohc Saturn engine in a Fiero?
Im thinking that would be an excellent engine for these cars...
I have the same problem with rain, only my car only squeels when I start the car. I hate it, feels like my car is pathetic and dying when it really isnt. Hope you can find a cheap solution.
------------------ My 1986 GT
[This message has been edited by CaliforniaSpeeder9 (edited 10-10-2005).]
Yeah, I've seen people look over with a look of either sorrow, or disgust as I pull out of some parking lots. I want to turn around and say, "No.. really.. it's a great car!"
I don’t know about the 2.5 but for the 2.8 Rodney has an idler pulley that should help out allot. as for your 2.5 how are your pulleys? If they are messed up from the belts slipping you will probably need to clean them. If you pull the pulleys and clean them up any crap that is on them it should make the belts grip better.
Where did you get your belts at? For some reason, Fieros seem to be "partial" to certain brands of belts. Goodyear Gatorback belts tend to be the best, although they're a little pricey, and hard to find sometimes. Gates brand belts are a close second, and are a little more reasonable, pricewise. If you have an off brand belt, that could be part of your problem...they also tend to stretch a bit more than the better quality belts. Once they get a bit loose, they can slip a bit on the pulley, which is the squealing you hear. You can try a bit of belt dressing, which you can get in a parts store, but that's usually just a temporary fix.
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08:25 PM
aerosmithr0cker Member
Posts: 1199 From: Charlotte, NC, USA Registered: Aug 2004
My belts luckily do not squeak in the rain but love to squeak under hard acceleration. But yeah I'd suggest using a gatorback belt i've heard good things about them.
Can I join the squeeling belt club? Mine squeels like mad every time I start the car and even sometimes when I click it into neutral to rev at the occasional ricer. Man that's embarrassing. I have a Dayco Poly-Cog belt. Are Dayco belts crappy? Or should I just go get a Gatorback belt?
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08:55 PM
sostock Member
Posts: 5907 From: Grain Valley, MO Registered: May 2005
Can I join the squeeling belt club? Mine squeels like mad every time I start the car and even sometimes when I click it into neutral to rev at the occasional ricer. Man that's embarrassing. I have a Dayco Poly-Cog belt. Are Dayco belts crappy? Or should I just go get a Gatorback belt?
i took the gatorbacks off mine and put on the poly-cogs. i'm not sure which is better but getting the belt tight is the hard part. its really a two person job. one to hold pressure on the alt and the other to tighten the bolts. i finally got mine tight enough with a crow bar and a piece of rope wrapped around my foot to give it enough pressure. (i know it sounds stupid but you have to be creative when you don't have a helper) mine used to squeak on start up but doesn't now. it never has squeaked in the rain. oh mine's an 84 duke. good luck.
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10:17 PM
litespd Member
Posts: 8128 From: No where you want to be Registered: Aug 99
Originally posted by sostock: i finally got mine tight enough with a crow bar and a piece of rope wrapped around my foot to give it enough pressure. (i know it sounds stupid but you have to be creative when you don't have a helper) mine used to squeak on start up but doesn't now. it never has squeaked in the rain. oh mine's an 84 duke. good luck.
You need to be careful when tightening up the belt. You can get it TOO tight, and then the squealing you hear may not be the belt...it could be the alternator bearings that are going south due to the belt being too tight. I've never had any problems with mine squealing, knock wood...and I've changed it myself a couple of times. I DO use a crowbar, but I keep the tension fairly light.
[This message has been edited by litespd (edited 10-10-2005).]
I knew I shouldn't have read this thread lol. I read it 2 days ago, then it rains and my belt squeels at low rpm. There is always a relatively small amount of squeekage at all idle, but it goes away when you rev it, and when it rained today it was just fine past 1500 rpm's, but below it squeeled like a dying hampster haha. New belt time? This one's been tightened many many times, never seems to hold the tightness
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03:20 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
My '87 Duke (with AC) uses a serpentine belt. So far, my experience with Dayco belts hasn't been very great. After 3-4 months, the belts stretch enough that the tensioner can't keep them tight anymore.
About a month ago, I switched to Gates brand. I'm going to reserve judgement for a few more months.
My '87 Duke (with AC) uses a serpentine belt. So far, my experience with Dayco belts hasn't been very great. After 3-4 months, the belts stretch enough that the tensioner can't keep them tight anymore.
About a month ago, I switched to Gates brand. I'm going to reserve judgement for a few more months.
You probably need a new tensioner.
If L4 serpent belts are wearing fast either the tensioner is bad or the pulleys have alignment problems.
Others... V belts can be a pain...
You can have them too tight or too loose. Too tight is way more common than most people think. Way too many so called "pros" are just as guilty of this as any DIY owner.
Many old cars are suffering from pulley wear and/or contamination. These can let the belt slip all the time as well as when wet. More like it's always slipping and you only hear it when wet.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurasic Park)
Pulleys are new. I had everything replaced when the motor was out getting a clutch installed. Im sure its just a rain & moving part issue. If you look at the body design, all that rain runs down onto the belts. Is there some sort of "gutter" or water bypass avail?
I knew I shouldn't have read this thread lol. I read it 2 days ago, then it rains and my belt squeels at low rpm. There is always a relatively small amount of squeekage at all idle, but it goes away when you rev it, and when it rained today it was just fine past 1500 rpm's, but below it squeeled like a dying hampster haha. New belt time? This one's been tightened many many times, never seems to hold the tightness
Sorry to be the bearer of bad luck...
I just got back from Washington, DC and while I was up there, it got reasonably colder at night than it does down in WIlmington, NC. So, I too am a victim of squeeling belts in the cold as well as the rain.
I could go get some gatorbacks, are there any other suggestions?
since i first bought my fiero, it only squealed slightly when it rained, but last week it got EXTREMELY loud and to the point where it was squealing every second of the drive, lol, and my dad was telling me to hurry up and leave before i woke up everyone else on our court. all it ended up needed was to be tightened. took it to work and got one of the mechanics to tighten and it hasnt made any noise since. THANK GOD! well see if it starts up again come winter though, lol.
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12:57 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
Originally posted by theogre: V belts can be a pain...
You can have them too tight or too loose. Too tight is way more common than most people think. Way too many so called "pros" are just as guilty of this as any DIY owner. More like it's always slipping and you only hear it when wet.
Well, isn't this a timely thread. I've just completed converting my alternator conversion, test drove it, and brought it home to wash it off since the car had set for a while (prior to the deluge last week!) Then I fire it up to pull it out of the yard and.....SQUEEEEEL! Okay, I thought the new belt (Goodyear gatorback) was just wet, it'll dry off in a couple turns... But NO... and smoke started to come of the pulleys.... damn.
I'm leaning towards too tight. The first that I put the belt on (and I cleaned the pulleys) I thought "That belt is flailing around a bit as the car idles." It wasn't making noise, but I was sure it would stretch and start. So I tightened it up, and drove it no problem. Then i washed it and started it....squeels and smoke... so I came in here to check myself.
------------------ John DuRette Custom 85 SE/87 Coupe "Kinda makes you nostalgic for a Members Only jacket"
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01:19 PM
87FieroGT Member
Posts: 494 From: Harlingen, TX, U.S.A. Registered: May 99
I used to have an 87GT V6 that did the same thing when driving in the rain, but it would only happen when I would hit a puddle on the back passengers side where the belts are. The only I can attribute it to was the fact that the factory rubber dust shields were not in place because I had removed them at one point because they were falling down. Before I removed them I did not remember this happening. If you don't have these guards that might be the reason, but of course I could be wrong. Just thought I would interject my experience. Good luck on figuring it out.
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02:41 PM
MDFierolvr Member
Posts: 2025 From: Great Mills, MD Registered: Mar 2004
so am I the only one with the duke that doesn't have squeeling belts? It did when I first got it but replaced the belt and tightened it up all nice and snug and I haven't heard a single squeel in 15,000 miles. I dunno maybe I just got lucky
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02:47 PM
Rodney Member
Posts: 4715 From: Caledonia, WI USA Registered: Feb 2000
Originally posted by MDFierolvr: so am I the only one with the duke that doesn't have squeeling belts? I tightened it up all nice and snug and I haven't heard a single squeel in 15,000 miles. maybe I just got lucky
....you may have just jinxed yourself! Muahahah! Anyway, I resolved mine this way: (not a completely safe technique I'll admit) I didn't know if mine were too loose or too tight? So I loosened the tension bolt and then started the car (squeallll) and started to pry the alternator back against the belt until it stopped. Then gave it a little extra tug just for good measure. I tightened up the tension bolt until it was fairly snug then cut of the motor before finishing torquing the bolt down. What made it hazardous was the proximity of said bolt to the spinning parts of the engine. I had to be very careful, and I can't recommend this to someone else.
But it ain't squealin' no more.
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10:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Oct 21st, 2005
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
I don’t know about the 2.5 but for the 2.8 Rodney has an idler pulley that should help out allot. as for your 2.5 how are your pulleys? If they are messed up from the belts slipping you will probably need to clean them. If you pull the pulleys and clean them up any crap that is on them it should make the belts grip better.
I'll second the motion for Rodney's idler. I've only had it on the car for a few days, but I've had no squeal at all since installing it. Mine used to make noise every cold start this time of year, or when it rained. I even tried getting the belt wet with the new idler on there, just to see what it would do. Nice and quiet. I'm really hoping it stays that way, I guess time will tell.
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02:28 AM
Oct 30th, 2005
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
so am I the only one with the duke that doesn't have squeeling belts? It did when I first got it but replaced the belt and tightened it up all nice and snug and I haven't heard a single squeel in 15,000 miles. I dunno maybe I just got lucky
Nope. My red car squeaked like a bucket of mice when I got it, but simply retensioning the belt silenced it and it's been good for a couple of years now.
Tip: if you look at the top alternator bracket there's a square hole in it. Slip your pry bar down through that hole to tension the belt - that way you can tighten the belt and the bolt at the same time.
Originally posted by Rodney: Can someone post a picture of the belts on an L4?
Rodney...
I'm guessing you are thinking a similar solution as you did on the V6... If so it won't work for the 87 and later ones at all. An idler should not be needed for the 86 and older. Not sure how much info you have. I don't have any images handy.
The older L4 (84-86) has one or two two standard V belts. First belt runs the alt and WP. The second runs only the AC when the car has that option. Assuming good/clean pulleys and a quality belt, the main V belt on this system isn't hard to tighten. The alternator is up where it's fairly easy to access compaired to the V6. The AC belt is a pain simply because it's so bloody hard to get at the compressor. What can help with the V belts is one of those jack sets that you stick between pulleys. The jack lets you get very precise belt tension and the jack does the work of holding it while you lock down the alternator. I don't know if there is room enough to use this on AC... doesn't look like it.
One thing people need with V belt is a place to get a belt tension gauge at reasonable price. It's amazing how hard one of these bloody things can be to find. A source of new WP pulleys for V and Serpent would also be good. You can get new crank and alternator pulley for many but the WP can be a royal pain to find new pulley for.
The later L4 as you know is a true serpent with spring loaded tensioner. This system is really picky about pulley alignment, especially on the AC cars because the pulleys are very close together. If the WP AC and Crank pulleys are off alignement even a little you will eat belts and very fast. Without AC the belt runs between pulleys increases and will tolerate more missalignment. This belt follow the map in my cave tho the map isn't exactly to scale. According to discussion I had with someone at Gates a couple years ago, belt wrap is adiquate on all pulleys.
Belt squeal on either version L4 is nearly always related to the items in the serpent article in my cave... dirty/worn pulleys, wrong tension, bad driven devices etc. Water alone shouldn't make them squeal. Pulley wear is a really common problem.
Originally posted by Whuffo: Nope. My red car squeaked like a bucket of mice when I got it, but simply retensioning the belt silenced it and it's been good for a couple of years now.
Tip: if you look at the top alternator bracket there's a square hole in it. Slip your pry bar down through that hole to tension the belt - that way you can tighten the belt and the bolt at the same time.
Tip 2: too tight is worse than not tight enough.
Ditto!
I brought the car toa mechanic friend and he took a look, pulled out a small prybar to put tension on the belt and gave bolt maybe two full turns. He then said due to the large amount of travel that belt has to make, it's probably going to need adjusting (like he just did) every so often.
Just a flaw in the manufactoring. I had that done maybe a month ago... it's been great since--even in the rain!!
EVERY time it rains, when I start the car, the volt guage will go to half, then there's a loud 'squeeeeeellll' and the volt guage will go to the right, the rpm's will increase, and it's back to normal.
EVERY time it rains, when I start the car, the volt guage will go to half, then there's a loud 'squeeeeeellll' and the volt guage will go to the right, the rpm's will increase, and it's back to normal.
That is what happens with mine also.
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11:36 PM
Nov 11th, 2005
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
If L4 serpent belts are wearing fast either the tensioner is bad or the pulleys have alignment problems.
I don't think there's any problem with the tensioner. It swings through the full range of motion. And the bearing is only a couple years old (thanks to Rodney).
All the serpentine belt problems started after I replaced the alternator. The new alternator must have a bigger pulley. Because after installing it, the stock length belt would no longer fit. I had to go one size bigger. The problem is that one size bigger (i.e. 1/2" longer) didn't leave much room for belt stretch. When the belt stretched from use, it eventually got loose enough to start slipping.
Let me tell you, finding a 66.25" long serpentine belt is like Mission Impossible. But last time around, I fortunately found a mom-and-pop shop that carried the Gates 66.3" belt. So far, so good (knocking on wood).
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09:33 AM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15242 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
Custom 85 SE/87 Coupe
