New guy here wondering about how well fiero's handle. I know the 88 model year handles very nicely, but what about the pre - 88 production years? Currently I drive a 90 Iroc camaro and was wondering if anyone chould shed some light onto how well a fiero handles in comparison. Are the 84 - 87 year fiero's any good at auto crossing?

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- Ed

1990 Iroc Camaro

Of the almost 30 different vehicles I've ever driven, the Fiero is by far the best handling of them all. Granted most of those were FWD, It does handle better than an 84 Trans Am (basically the same car as yours), and a few RWD and AWD cars.

I've seen videos of Fieros autocrossing, and they look like they do it well, unless the driver pushes it too hard and spins

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1984 Fiero SE

The fiero feels like its on rails compared to a big f-body. If you lived in hawaii and I wasn't in Iraq right now I would give you a ride in my car.

my buddy has an 87 Trans Am GTA with 350tpiV8/auto

first time i took him in my fiero he freaked out

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prowling the pacific...

87 GT - V8 - 5 Speed

[This message has been edited by MilleniumFiero (edited 03-20-2005).]

Come to the Central Iowa meet next month and I will take you for a ride in my car. The suspension is not exactly stock but you will be able to feel the potential of the non-88 GT/Formulas. Being a mid-engine car with big bars front and rear it does not lean at all and can change directions more quickly than anything else that I have driven.

[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 03-20-2005).]

The stock 85-87 suspension isn't that good but there are a lot of ways to improve it greatly. I needed to do something due to the frequent high speed runs I do (just went up to 125 mph for 50 miles today trying to follow a Mercedes SLR (no chance, obviously, if he wasn't going slow...)).

This is what I did so far:

- Front PU sway bar links
- Rear Fiero Store heavy duty sway bar
- Drilled/slotted rotors front and rear
- SS lined brake hoses
- Completely rebuilt calipers
- Carbomet brake pads
- PU control arm bushings front and rear (except front upper)
- Yellow Eibach springs and red adjustable Koni shocks
- New steering dampener, ball joints and tie rods all around
- Fiero Store strut tower brace

I will add a bump steer correction kit and hood vents in the future but I must say that the car feels very solid at 120+ mph right now and also corners well.

This is how it looks:

And this is why it needs to:

Download 17 MB AVI file (recommended!)
Download 5 MB AVI file

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www.yellowfiero.com/fiero.html
17" DEZENT T wheels with 215/40 tires front and 235/45 rear, KONI shocks, EIBACH lowering springs, drilled/slotted rotors. PU dog bone, all bushings and engine mounts, K&N air and oil filters, OZELOT exhaust, Mercedes SLK yellow paintjob, Mr. Mikes leather seats, door skins, shift and e-brake boots. MP3 deck and custom subwoofer behind passenger seat, F355 style front. Fiero Store rear swaybar, strut tower brace, black carpet, air intake. Rodney Dickman's competition short shifter. Billet aluminum dash kit from Kitcarman.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 03-20-2005).]

Well one this is for sure, in reguards to safety there is no comparison.

Give me your email through private message and I'll send you some reading material.

As for autocrossing, i am going to put my other fiero in an autocrossing club when i get the motors swaped, but i went to check it out and there was one there that had been stripped and was nothing but motor frame and body. He also beefed up the V6 a bit and that thing smoked everything there. The anouncer said it is often there best runner and if not then pretty high it the ranking. Not saying they're a monster on the autocrossing course but they can sure tear it up if there set up right.

Ive been curious about this myself. Just how much would it take to get an 88 to do 70+mph in a slalom and over a 1G on a skidpad with out resorting to slicks? How big of tires can you fit under these cars?
I know its allot but im just curious on what the limits of the fiero's potenial lies before its completely unstreetable(ie, only 1 seat, lexan windows, no dash/carpit/ac ect ect.)

(off-topic)btw yellowstone, I cant stop looking at your car. lol I'm sure you get it allot but I just wanted to say very nice.

I believe Solo2 has the info for getting 1.13 lateral g's from an 88. Try to get him to email it to you.

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Thats not a bad idea. I think I still have his email somewhere from the last time I had a bunch of n00b questions..Seems like a really nice guy, I almost hate to bother him becuase he is VERY discriptive and it would seem that it takes quite awhile for one email. He should write a book or at least a FAQ about fiero suspension.

quote Originally posted by 88gtNewb: I believe Solo2 has the info for getting 1.13 lateral g's from an 88. Try to get him to email it to you.

I think Solo2 is banned. I was looking for info on lowring my 88 and that when I found that. But if you look his name up you might find info on handling and Suspention. As for handling compaired to an IROC. I can tell you for a Fact My budy used to have a 1987 IROC 350 and My Fiero would destroy him in the corners. But he just made up for it in the straits.

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[This message has been edited by Fierokid87 (edited 03-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Quasimo1: New guy here wondering about how well fiero's handle. I know the 88 model year handles very nicely, but what about the pre - 88 production years? Currently I drive a 90 Iroc camaro and was wondering if anyone chould shed some light onto how well a fiero handles in comparison. Are the 84 - 87 year fiero's any good at auto crossing?

bottom line is that the Fiero pre-88 handles very well.

I've slalomed a dropped and radical Datsun in the 70's, rallied with a Fiat in the 60's, flogged a Mini in the 80's, and drove an 84 Trans Am for quite a few years. For manuevering, the 85 GT I currently have would have only been beaten by the Datsun which had a special Mulholland equipped suspension and road like a tank. I am putting on a rear anti-sway just to bring it up a ways but it will not ever have a true racing suspension.

The 84 Trans Am was better at 90+ mph maneuvering. I expect with the anti-sway on the rear, the Fiero will be better than the Trans Am was. If I was competing with the Fiero, I would not hesitate to upgrade the suspension components and expect it to stay with the best.

The balance and geometry is similar to a Ferrari, and we all know what Ferrari can do. No reason the Fiero cannot be made to perform really well, but alas, not quite to Ferrari's ability due to $$$$ worth of equipment. There are a few guys doing well with autocross and at least one that competes at the Mossport track in Ontario.

Arn

Everyone thinks that 88's are just unstoppable. In many aspects they are and can be setup to out perform 84-87 Fieros but I still think that there is a misconception about pre 88s. I have drove and experienced quite a few brand new suspensions on Fieros and I have to admit my 88's feel and overall ride quality is just that much better than a pre 88. It has full coilovers, tubular control arms, poly all around, and brand new everything, it rides great. It is rough, there is no such thing as a smooth riding Fiero. I drove a C5 Vette and the comparison is not even close. That Vette drove like a Cadillac and handled like mad, too bad we can't get that affect but the suspension geometry prevents that. On my 87GT, I have brand new suspension, cut springs, monroe front shocks and rear kybs with poly cradle bushings and it really handles quite nicely. It has 17's in the rear with 235/45/17 Nittos 555's, and front 16" wheels. I would put it up against my 88 as I dont think my 88 would be able to outhandle it too much, and the only difference I notice between the 2 cars is bump steer is more aparent on the 87 than my 88 Formula. I like going from car to car, but I dont think 88's are kings, but they definitely feel more road stable at higher speeds as well, but maybe its an 88 thing where we think we have some sort of royalty, who knows. Setup both cars and go for a handling contest on a road course, I bet it would be really close between the 2 cars. Just my 2 cents.

-Amir

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1 of 2: Factory Maroon/Gray 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft)
2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 13.704@98mph, 1.938 60ft)

My CarDomain Site
My Friend Garrod's CarDomain Site

quote Originally posted by Rare87GT: Everyone thinks that 88's are just unstoppable. In many aspects they are and can be setup to out perform 84-87 Fieros but I still think that there is a misconception about pre 88s. I have drove and experienced quite a few brand new suspensions on Fieros and I have to admit my 88's feel and overall ride quality is just that much better than a pre 88. It has full coilovers, tubular control arms, poly all around, and brand new everything, it rides great. It is rough, there is no such thing as a smooth riding Fiero. I drove a C5 Vette and the comparison is not even close. That Vette drove like a Cadillac and handled like mad, too bad we can't get that affect but the suspension geometry prevents that. On my 87GT, I have brand new suspension, cut springs, monroe front shocks and rear kybs with poly cradle bushings and it really handles quite nicely. It has 17's in the rear with 235/45/17 Nittos 555's, and front 16" wheels. I would put it up against my 88 as I dont think my 88 would be able to outhandle it too much, and the only difference I notice between the 2 cars is bump steer is more aparent on the 87 than my 88 Formula. I like going from car to car, but I dont think 88's are kings, but they definitely feel more road stable at higher speeds as well, but maybe its an 88 thing where we think we have some sort of royalty, who knows. Setup both cars and go for a handling contest on a road course, I bet it would be really close between the 2 cars. Just my 2 cents. -Amir

with both pre-88 and 88 setup properly and equally then it would be so close to come down to driver skill -- thats why i was never impressed with the 88's handling - only its smoother ride

I have owned both, and the difference is huge.

Take an exit ramp with ruts at 60mph in both cars, if you still say your not impressed then your lying. The pre-88 shows all it's warts, and the 88 comes out feeling like a rose.

It's not just about ride quality, it's about geometery, antidive, rear toe changes on the fly, and so on.

Sure... they both handle very well on perfect road surfaces, but how they handle the road and what kind of road manners they have under different conditions are VERY different.

I would go into all the details on why, but that has already been hashed many times in the past.

To the new readers we have here, this article is a good introduction, and gives you a basic understanding...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/skybax/Fiero%20GT2/Extras/autocararticlecopy.jpg

I liked my 87 better in some ways than my 88, but they were all cosmetic reasons, not driveability.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 03-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Skybax: I have owned both, and the difference is huge. Sure... they both handle very well, but how they handle the road and what kind of road manners they have under different conditions are very different. I would go into all the details on why, but that has already been hashed many times in the past.

depends on which pre-88 to which 88

rear sway bar? ws6 springs?

when they are setup the same they are very very close - the 88's just ride softer - but again thats just my opinion

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-21-2005).]

Fiero's - all of them - handle GREAT. That is, when they have fresh suspension - especially in the back. A sloppy rear end in a Fiero is one scary ride. even with just all new stuff (not upgrades), you will have a hard time finding a better handling car. magazines had them at 0.9 g's? thats awesome. and thats back in the 80's. yes, todays cars handle pretty damn good too. the Fiero doesnt shine so bright anymore. but, in reality - handling is basicly ALL TIRES. yes, the tight, flat go-kart feel is nice, but tires is what sticks ya to the road. a Indy car on street tires will lose to a street car on Indy tires. thats why tires are so tightly controlled in ALL racing series.

quote Originally posted by Skybax: I have owned both, and the difference is huge. Take an exit ramp with ruts at 60mph in both cars, if you still say your not impressed then your lying. The pre-88 shows all it's warts, and the 88 comes out feeling like a rose. It's not just about ride quality, it's about geometery, antidive, rear toe changes on the fly, and so on. Sure... they both handle very well on perfect road surfaces, but how they handle the road and what kind of road manners they have under different conditions are VERY different. I would go into all the details on why, but that has already been hashed many times in the past. To the new readers we have here, this article is a good introduction, and gives you a basic understanding... [URL=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/skybax/Fiero%20GT2/Extras/autocararticlecopy.jpg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/skybax/Fiero%20GT2/Extras/autocararticlecopy.jpg[/ URL] I liked my 87 better in some ways than my 88, but they were all cosmetic reasons, not driveability.

I couldn't agree with you more about the handling part over bad roads and so forth on exit ramps. My 87 has lots more play when it hits bumps than my 88, and sometimes it can almost feel like it is a bit sloppy and not totally smooth but when you lower a car it always loses some sort of overall geometry it once had.

Thanks for all of the great responses everyone! You all helped to answer my questions.

quote Originally posted by Fierokid87: I think Solo2 is banned. I was looking for info on lowring my 88 and that when I found that. But if you look his name up you might find info on handling and Suspention. As for handling compaired to an IROC. I can tell you for a Fact My budy used to have a 1987 IROC 350 and My Fiero would destroy him in the corners. But he just made up for it in the straits.

whah? banned?!? Thats quite a shock.

So it handled better then an iroc? Thats nice to hear becuase I have heard that those irocs handled very well(I guess for an f-body..?) and that their problem by todays standerds was lack of power...

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This msg was brought to you buy a person who wishes he had an 88 fieroGT with an LS1 and 6speed.

I had a Z28....... it was a land boat. In terms of both parking lots, and handling.

Wow!
What a difference 20 years makes.
From a Road and Track article Sep. 1983--
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"Only a couple of really finicky evaluators have perceived a slight yaw overshoot, which could be because of lateral bushing compliance in the engine/suspension subframe. Otherwise, the handling properties are excellent, with an easily correctable drop-throttle oversteer when cornering at the limit."
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But in conclusion--
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"The stated goal in the performance package was to make the Fiero equivalent in every respect to the Firebird WS6 option, but it was fairly obvious that they hadn't met that objective"
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Makes me wonder what you guys have been driving (boo-hoo! bumpsteer, bumpsteer!! / it's a barge!).

My sister Owns a 1990 Iroc Z 28 Convertible and i have a 86 Fiero GT.... Comparison in handling the Camaro brakes better..... and throttle response is alot better as it is a V8.... Fiero Lower Center of gravity... more weight over rear wheels so alot better traction obviously..... fiero feels like its bolted the ground and not goin to give way taking a sharp corner ..Fiero+ V8 would be perfect for autocrossing... even a bigger V6 with a turbo or supercharger would be good for autocrossing... I do think that the Fiero handles alot better but things i like about the camaro is the brakes and throttle response...

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I'm going to paste a part of an email from a lady who emailed me about fixing up her fiero.

"A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to drive a Porsche Boxster that was
brought in for a client at ******* Motors in *****. I know the Fiero is
not a Porsche, but all my life (I'm 53), I've driven sports cars
(and one Camaro - not exactly a sports car but it was an SS396 so it could
move some) and these Saturns etc. just are not inspiring and they don't
"feel right". So I'd like to get the Fiero fixed up. I'm thinking of
selling the Corvette."

Edited out dealer name and location

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 03-24-2005).]

Of course, on the devils advocate side, you really think someone here is going to say Fiero's don't handle that well?

bit of an offtopic question but just how big of tires can you fit under these cars?(both pre-88 and 88)