Almost makes me wish I had bid on it! Great to see the pics. Keep us up to date on if it can be reproduced. It would be really neat to have power steering even though the 88 feels like it does already compared to the previous model years.

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Got Blue?

BlueGT

quote Originally posted by Toddster: We need to change the name of this forum to the Pennock's Starving People Forum (PSPF) and discuss NOTHING except starving people and how we are not doing enough to feed them. The TECH section should be changed to the "Logistics of Feeding Starving People" Section. And the General Section MUST be changed to the "How do we feel about Starving People in general" section. The Mall can be changed to a "food for sale...only to Starving People" section. T/OT can be changed to the "You're a total ******* if you are here because you're not thinking about Starving People" Section. And the Garbage Can can be the "One man's garbage is a Starving Person's dinner" Section.

Whew! Someone needs to take a "Get over yourself" pill! All I was saying is that it's good for you that you can afford to chuck $1250 at what amounts to a trophy. That was never even the focus of what I was getting at, but of course you like to take the one comment that can possibly be taken out of context and twist the **** out of it. My point was, give me one good reason why I should be any happier that you bought this then someone else? I didn't have anything at all to say about this until someone came along and said how happy they were that you bought it rather then another Fiero owner that they didn't like. Why? Why should I care who owns it? You know this is a thread to brag about how much cash you can throw around on useless **** . Why are you embarassed when I acknowledge that fact?

quote Originally posted by stimpy: My point was, give me one good reason why I should be any happier that you bought this then someone else?

I'll go one better. give me one reason why I, or anyone else, should give a **** what you think?

When you can answer THAT question, I'll answer yours.

There is no reason why anyone should care what I think. Do you honestly think that I'm expecting you to feel bad about buying that? I don't. Good for you, you're a high roller. That's a golf clap you hear coming up 101. But if the litmus test for "allowing" a post is if anyone "cares", there's a whole lot of filler in this sausage we call PFF. And for someone to pucker up and plant one on your nether regions because you could buy something is pure beef by-product. I'm talking lips and buttholes here. So, if you want to get all dick-hurt that I think it's ridiculous that someone is actually "happy" that you bought it over someone else, be my guest. But that's not what I was getting at.

[This message has been edited by stimpy (edited 03-02-2005).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Looking at the pics I can make out the fluid reservoir, the pump section, and the electric motor, but what goes in the big heat-sink housing? Does this system use a variable motor drive to vary the assist? About the motor, GM's not in the habit of designing motors from scratch if they can use something off the shelf, is the motor used elsewhere? BTW, this is for intellectual curiousity only. JazzMan

Actually, the motor looks very generic. The armature and magnet looks like you could pick it up at Radio Shack. It is distinguished from other motors by having a thrust plate and set of rotor vanes at one end for pumping the fluid. The Controller on the side controls the variable speed.

The car's VSS provides the input to the controller to vary the level of assist. up to 9 miles per hour the motor recieves full current for maximum assist. Up to 25 miles per hour it gets just 65% current and at 55 miles per hour it drops to 22% assist.

The controller has one 2-wire plug and one 4-wire plug as follows:

2-Wire Plug:
A) Power Ground
B) Link X (fusable link directly to the power distribution block in the engien compartment)

4-wire Plug:
A) Diagnostic
B) Fan E (that's the radiator Fan wire E)
C) Signal Ground
D) VSS input

Prowlerfan: Well, I see you're still pretty new here, but stick around and you'll see why people were really doubtful about your P.S. Unit; especially since there has been a lot of interest in the issue lately. There have been some outrageous claims for stuff that people supposedly had, then they didn't follow through. Like a rare prototype fiero that someone bought for a song then refused to post pics ... or the 11 mile fiero for $25 grand that never saw pics posted either.

On the bright side, i think you and Toddster certainly got everyone's attention now.

Welcome.

PS. What else you got lyin' around you might wanna sell ....

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 03-03-2005).]

Well I mean, lets be honest.. Utilitarian-wise, it should go to Shawn.. I mean, he does know more technically, correct? He might be a little more abrasive to the majority here, but, he knows his stuff. Of course, on the flipside of the utilitarian argument, it would be blasphemy for him to aquire such a relic, being banned from pff and all? Either, you really think someone is going to take that an make a replica of a power steering setup? I highly doubt it, no matter who holds it, so it doesn't really matter who bought it.

quote Originally posted by Bazooka: Best thing I like is that there is no load on the engine (other than electrical) when using it.

The laws of physics and conservation of energy tell me that the load would be the same, if not more (due to the added conversions of energy), than a regular PS pump. You may experience a savings on energy if the car was sitting still, whereas, the regular PS pump is wasting some energy.

Todd, congrats! Please talk to a fab place and see what it would cost to reproduce. You can probably make your money back at least, given what some people would pay for a replica.

My apologies if I missed it, but is the amount of input (lock to lock) reduced in this rack? I really want a rack that you have to turn less. When autocrossing, your arms get all twisted up Thanks!
--Bryson

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88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo =) 396 whp!

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Well I mean, lets be honest.. Utilitarian-wise, it should go to Shawn.. I mean, he does know more technically, correct? He might be a little more abrasive to the majority here, but, he knows his stuff. Of course, on the flipside of the utilitarian argument, it would be blasphemy for him to aquire such a relic, being banned from pff and all? Either, you really think someone is going to take that an make a replica of a power steering setup? I highly doubt it, no matter who holds it, so it doesn't really matter who bought it.

Yeah... blasphemy... or something... As if the 10,000 people who are registered here represent the entire community of owners of a car of which over 300,000 were produced.
Get over yourselves, people.

As for the intended use of the system... if it's not going to be reverse engineered... it's not doing ANYBODY any good just sitting there. For crying out loud, install it on a car. Hanging it on your wall and looking at it every night is a waste of some nice equipment.

As for Shaun vs. Todd... I agree with Stimpy. At least Shaun has the decency to tell you he thinks your a jackass. Toddster will be polite and civil and then rally the green bar brigade to try to get you banned... as if he's the one who needs to police PFF for undesirables. Who's more insidious?

quote Originally posted by stimpy: My point was, give me one good reason why I should be any happier that you bought this then someone else? I didn't have anything at all to say about this until someone came along and said how happy they were that you bought it rather then another Fiero owner that they didn't like. Why? Why should I care who owns it? You know this is a thread to brag about how much cash you can throw around on useless **** . Why are you embarassed when I acknowledge that fact?

There's no reason at all that you should be happier Todd bought it than someone else. No reason at all. So quit your whining.
If others want to be happy about it, that's not your problem.

Most threads in GFC are to brag about something: look how cool my car is, I just got new wheels, check out my 3800SC conversion... crap like that. We share these stories because we like Fieros and want to share our excitement with others who feel the same way. He spent less on that steering rack than most people spend on wheels and tires, so what's the big deal?

If you really don't care who bought it, then shut up about it. For someone who doesn't care, you sure to protest a lot.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: There's no reason at all that you should be happier Todd bought it than someone else. No reason at all. So quit your whining. If others want to be happy about it, that's not your problem.

Following that logic, why is this your problem?

quote Originally posted by Will: As for Shaun vs. Todd... I agree with Stimpy. At least Shaun has the decency to tell you he thinks your a jackass. Toddster will be polite and civil and then rally the green bar brigade to try to get you banned... as if he's the one who needs to police PFF for undesirables. Who's more insidious?

Doesn't anyone find it disturbing that the art of politeness has been lost in this world? That's not to say we must *always* play nicey-nicey, but some people don't even try.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Well, I mean, let's be honest.... that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

And why is that a dumb argument?

quote Originally posted by Will: And why is that a dumb argument?

Saying that Shaun (or anyone) would "deserve" the rack more because of their technical knowledge.
That's , IMO.

The person who "deserves" it is the one that ponied up the dough. Period.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Well, I mean, let's be honest.... that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

Is this your intelligent way of saying "I disagree"?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Saying that Shaun (or anyone) would "deserve" the rack more because of their technical knowledge. That's , IMO. The person who "deserves" it is the one that ponied up the dough. Period.

What I drew from JohnnyK's post is that he'd rather Shaun had gotten the unit. I tend to agree. He didn't say anything about who deserved it.
On that I'll agree with you... the guy who paid for it deserves it.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Well I mean, lets be honest.. Utilitarian-wise, it should go to Shawn.. I mean, he does know more technically, correct?

quote Originally posted by Will: What I drew from JohnnyK's post is that he'd rather Shaun had gotten the unit. I tend to agree. He didn't say anything about who deserved it. On that I'll agree with you... the guy who paid for it deserves it.

Well, you are right, the word "deserved" was not used by JohnnyK. So, let me re-phrase my explanation...

Saying the rack "should go to" Shaun (or anyone else) more because of their technical knowledge.
That's , IMO.

The person it "should go to" it is the one that ponied up the dough. Period.

There. Does that clear up my mistake?

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 03-03-2005).]

Im glad Toddster got it instead of Shaun. Toddster is on this forum and is a pleasant person to have a civil conversation with, while Shaun is on the anti-Pennock forum and could not complete a sentence without a put down or profanity if his life depended on it. At least here we can ask Toddster questions about it without fear of ridicule, insults, or child like mentallity answers.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-03-2005).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Is this your intelligent way of saying "I disagree"?

Is this your intelligent way of saying "you're stoopid"?

This is getting almost as fun as O/T!

Honestly Todd, nice find. I hope you put it to good use.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Well, you are right, the word "deserved" was not used by JohnnyK. So, let me re-phrase my explanation... Saying the rack "should go to" Shaun (or anyone else) more because of their technical knowledge. That's , IMO. The person it "should go to" it is the one that ponied up the dough. Period. There. Does that clear up my mistake?

I never meant to infer that the rack should go to one or the other.. Merely saying that it's ridiculous that everyone on here was saying "Whew! It didn't go into the hands of shawn".. Basically I was getting the impression that these people thought it would be horrible if it ended up in his hands or something? Somehow more good would come of it if todd was the one who bought it.

the only question I have on this unit is if it where any good why did GM scape the unit as a production part form what I have read these units failed all of the testing pior to its use in the 88 model and the heat generated by PWM for motor speed would be intense as the PMM motor draws large current loads to maintain pressure in the pump as most steering pumps run from 600 to 2400 psi

Auto Manufactures are duty bound to support a product for 10yrs.. That's a small, expensive, untested, technology to have to support on a car that they killed. Cuttin' future losses, those were the years when it was a popular trend to hold the bean-counters up as demigods.
Norm

[This message has been edited by gt88norm (edited 03-03-2005).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Im glad Toddster got it instead of Shaun. Toddster is on this forum and is a pleasant person to have a civil conversation with, while Shaun is on the anti-Pennock forum and could not complete a sentence without a put down or profanity if his life depended on it. At least here we can ask Toddster questions about it without fear of ridicule, insults, or child like mentallity answers.

The irony about "pennockssucks" is that they say they don't care about Pennocks, but if you look through the threads in that all-garbage-can forum, at least half (if not more) of the threads have references to people and/or discussions over here. Yeah, right

Oh, and if you post there, and they don't like what you say, they'll edit your post to their liking.

I know they are reading this, so...hey, jerkoffs, you can't edit my posts here. HAHAHAHAHA

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 03-03-2005).]

quote Originally posted by bubbajoexxx: the only question I have on this unit is if it where any good why did GM scape the unit as a production part form what I have read these units failed all of the testing pior to its use in the 88 model and the heat generated by PWM for motor speed would be intense as the PMM motor draws large current loads to maintain pressure in the pump as most steering pumps run from 600 to 2400 psi

You can be sure that GM thoroughly tested and validated this technology before beginning production on the hardware for a system this critical. What most likely happened is that they decided that it wasn't worth installing this option on a model car that would sell less than 27,000 units and would be discontinued mid-year. To have sold the option would have meant contracts for spare parts and the associated overhead costs for stocking parts and such. With a company like GM there's a lot more to a parts system than just a box of parts.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Well I mean, lets be honest.. Utilitarian-wise, it should go to Shawn.. I mean, he does know more technically, correct? He might be a little more abrasive to the majority here, but, he knows his stuff.

quote Originally posted by Toddster:

Well **** , I dunno, thats the impression I got.. I could be wrong though.. Who knows actually..

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Well I mean, lets be honest.. Either, you really think someone is going to take that an make a replica of a power steering setup? I highly doubt it, no matter who holds it, so it doesn't really matter who bought it.

You have inside information regarding the new owner's skill, expertise, financial assests, and technical ability that the rest of us don't?

I certainly don't, but i bet he won't get rid of his Fiero because he can't cure minor clutch problems, and I suspect he has the experience and intelligence to wire up a simple 220 VAC circuit as well.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: You have inside information regarding the new owner's skill, expertise, financial assests, and technical ability that the rest of us don't? I certainly don't, but i bet he won't get rid of his Fiero because he can't cure minor clutch problems, and I suspect he has the experience and intelligence to wire up a simple 220 VAC circuit as well.

I can only assume you are disagreeing.. I have seen a bit of what Shawn can do. I haven't seen what todd can do.. Of course thats biased, but if it's all the info you have, you have to extrapolate. But anyways, when that pump is recreated, come talk to me. I see you're back in utter dickhead mode.. Suspected it was about time anyways.. You honestly don't remember the problems with that Fiero? Snapping of critical parts was a good one..

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: I can only assume you are disagreeing.. I have seen a bit of what Shawn can do. I haven't seen what todd can do.. Of course thats biased, but if it's all the info you have, you have to extrapolate. But anyways, when that pump is recreated, come talk to me. I see you're back in utter dickhead mode.. Suspected it was about time anyways.. You honestly don't remember the problems with that Fiero? Snapping of critical parts was a good one..

Wow. Says here "He's a wanker" under his negative rating in "my ratings". Looks like that one stays. Looks like there's a reason his bar is half red, too....

Ed

quote Originally posted by edhering: Wow. Says here "He's a wanker" under his negative rating in "my ratings". Looks like that one stays. Looks like there's a reason his bar is half red, too.... Ed

I see.. My retaliation was somehow ruder than mj's? Whatever man.. Talk about drama queens.. You want me to lie and say Shawn probably knows less than todd? Tough beans.. So why is it good that todd got this thing again and horrible if Shawn got it?

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: So why is it good that todd got this thing again and horrible if Shawn got it?

Maybe for similar reasons why many people who have to sell their Fieros say they want it to go to someone who is nice, deserving and will appreciate it. But thats just my guess of course.

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Maybe for similar reasons why many people who have to sell their Fieros say they want it to go to someone who is nice, deserving and will appreciate it. But thats just my guess of course.

So you guys think he'll smash it to bits to spite you all?

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: So you guys think he'll smash it to bits to spite you all?

So, do you ever read the kiddie forum?

Shaun41178(2), "You know what, maybe when it arrives I will just take a video of me setting it on fire. Maybe that would make you losers happy? I wont' care to do it either. Sure its a nice peice of history but I could care less if you guys are going to complain and ***** about it. It makes no difference to me. Its only $1250 and I can make that back in no time. I could care less either way."

Attitudes like this are why I'm glad Todd got it. Besides, apparently Shaun reads this forum and my posts tick him off. That's just an added bonus.

If you have a pulley driven pump from the crankshaft that pressurizes fluid thru a directional control valve in the steering rack, vs an electrically operated self contained unit that will not vary the idle speed with an efficiently running charging system it makes me think that the EHPS is a totally superior system if the cost wasn't a factor.

*****************************************************************

quote Originally posted by zonyl: The laws of physics and conservation of energy tell me that the load would be the same, if not more (due to the added conversions of energy), than a regular PS pump. You may experience a savings on energy if the car was sitting still, whereas, the regular PS pump is wasting some energy. Todd, congrats! Please talk to a fab place and see what it would cost to reproduce. You can probably make your money back at least, given what some people would pay for a replica.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: You want me to lie and say Shawn probably knows less than todd? Tough beans..

Why not? You've already implied the reverse in a previous post.
What would be so wrong with assuming each would be equally up to the task? Why assume that one would be better than either, as you already have admitted that you know nothing about Todd, and have only limited knowlege of Shaun's ability?

All I did in my post was to give you a little of what you give others on a nearly daily basis JohnnyK.
One line response, that while truthfull, is somewhat less that tactfull or diplomatic. You are a master at it. I would have thought you would see the irony and said "Good one-ya got me there."
The shoe is different on the other foot?

Yes, I read all about your clutch problems. Short on ability or knowlege? That's almost always present with the exhuberance of youth and can easily be rectified with patience, tenacity, and education. Short on patience and tenacity is a different story.

I don't doubt Shaun's ability a bit, and said as much back on page 1. I have no knowlege at all about his personal motives or what he would do with the unit, therefore any comment I might make in that area would be supposition at best. Until someone shows me reason to believe otherwise, I'll remain with the same opinion of both Todd and Shaun. Equally up to the task. Had this piece of equipment and it's documentation fell into the hands of someone like me-well, that would have been a travesty.