I'm getting ready to do a V8 swap, my goal would be to have it done in time for spring. I can't decide whether I want to go for the LT1 or with a TPI (possibly crate ZZ4 engine). I've done some searching and the following are pros and cons to each. Any input or corrctions appreciated.

LT1 Pros:
-300hp stock form
-better power in higher revs
-looks better (in my opinion the LT1 swap looks cleaner)
-more rare (advantage in my opinion)
-handles better due to centerting the engine (not sure if this is true??)
-Used LT1 will be cheaper than a new ZZ4

LT1 Cons:
-Kit will cost more due to custom axles (I'm not sure how much more archie charges fo the LT1 kit? Is there any other differences besides the axles?)
-Requires extensive cutting/welding of the frame and cradle (I'm not the best fabricator)
-not as much info/help available for this swap

ZZ4 Pros:
-Doesn't need frame cutting etc.
-kit will be cheaper, allowing me to spend more on the motor
-been done many times, lots of info
-engine will be new 'crate' motor (0 miles!)

ZZ4 Cons:
-Doesn't look as good under the hood (opinion)
-Cost of the new engine will be greater

Thats all I can think of for now, any opinions or info appreciated. Please don't try and recomend the N*, 3800sc or DOHC engines. I'm Set on a SBC v8.

Well, the ZZ4 is rated 355HP stock. You'll likely lose some of that from the TPI, but with the right intake, it will have about 50HP or so more than a stock LT1. There's plenty of aftermarket for both.

I prefer the ZZ4 because it doesn't require frame cutting That and it doesn't have to deal with an LT1 cam driven water pump and failure prone Opti-spark. Also, Archie says the LT1 swap is $700 more, according to his website.

You may still be able to get an LT1 new. If so, I'd use that price as your comparison so you're comparing new vs. new. Any used engine will be cheaper, but it's also an unkown unless you build it yourself.

Depending on your budget, you may want to find out how much Archie will be charging for his LS1 swaps. That might be worth considering, but I don't have any info on the swap.

quote Originally posted by newfie: ZZ4 Cons: -Doesn't look as good under the hood (opinion) -

I don't think it looks that bad

I didn't say it looked bad, I just think the LT1 looks cleaner and appears to 'fit' better, even though I know it requires more cutting.

I know what you are saying and where you are coming from! The LT-1 looks really good in a Fiero.
It looks more like it was supposed to be in there also. I went with the ZZ4 at the time because of money. I wasn't going to buy a used motor of any sorts and I couldn't afford the brand new LT-1 at the time so I went with the ZZ4 crate. Well, I didn't think I could afford it but with all the mods I have been doing, I should have just done it. Back then I couldn't comprehend spending "x" amount of dollars on an engine swap. But I was a new fiero owner and since then the bug has really bit hard. I have loved the ZZ4 motor. I am switching my TPI out to carburator though. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

One "Pro" that I feel that should be high in someone's book (but it is my opinion) is the brand new motor or freshly built motor. I know you can find great used motors out there but there is just an easy feeling with having a brand new one for a conversion.

quote Originally posted by newfie: I didn't say it looked bad, I just think the LT1 looks cleaner and appears to 'fit' better, even though I know it requires more cutting.

You can go TPI without going to the extent of a LT1. look for an L98 and then add some after-market performance parts. you will be money ahead, and have similar performance. IMO an LT1 isn't worth the extra work involved

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LS1 v8 T-Top 87 GT

http://www.acxunlimited.com/ls1swap.htm

I would go the zz4 route (mine is a ZZ4 spec with vortec heads - so I am biased). However, I caution against using the TPI setup since in stock form is not really setup for the ZZ4 powerband... sure it can be made to flow, but you will drop $500 to $1500 additional making it happen.

With the ZZ4 you CAN still use the LT1 intake. http://www.lt1intake.com/services.htm This requires drilling the dist hole and running a remote thermostat housing (off the shelf item). Aside from those two items is it pretty much a bolt on setup. Also the LT1 intakes are cheaper to buy used with injectors and everything because of their percieved specific application.

Also if you like the LT1 due to the lower rotating mass (quicker acceleration), just swap the entire rotating assy into standard 1 piece rear main seal block, add the ZZ4 cam (or HOT cam), the vette heads, LT1 intake and you will have the best of the LT1 with the ease of the older style SBC.

I would go this route, except I have the vortec heads and would need the LT4 intake (more rare and $$$), portwork and significant changes to the mounting bolt holes.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-11-2005).]

I guess this would be my answer.
Two years of faithful service (as of two days ago)

That LT1 really looks sweet, especially with the reversed intake. Thats about as 'factory' as a V8 can look in my opinion. I'm still undecided however. I'm looking for more options as far as the ZZ4. I think the zz4 with holley stealth mpfi would be sweet, but pricey. Maybe I'd go carb first until I could afford the MPFI.

Well I think you need to decide what your goals are 1st. Do you want this to swap to be a HP monster?
Or a show car? Or the best of both worlds?

Once you have decided that go from there. You mentioned the ZZ4 would be a cheaper engine allowing more mods. Why not just by a SBC block and build it up yourself? This may take a little longer, but Im sure you can come across some high performance parts for a good deal. So less money spent then originally planned = better performance parts= MORE HP.

But its all in what you want I guess. If youre an impatient man, then just go the ZZ4 route. Get the TPI stuff later.

Good Luck....keep us posted.

Hi newfie,

Just to let you know, that the known LT1 HP rating in the Corvette its 300 HP "Net" power, that translates to aprox ~ 370 HP at the flywheel, but that "net" part has always confused a lot of people making them to believe that those numbers were taken at the flywheel, so it still is one of the best options out there for great power in your Fiero, and dont forget the look also .

Greetings ...
Ales

You could always go the ZZ4 route with an LT1 intake...

http://www.lt1intake.com/

Hartz

quote Originally posted by Ales: Hi newfie, Just to let you know, that the known LT1 HP rating in the Corvette its 300 HP "Net" power, that translates to aprox ~ 370 HP at the flywheel, but that "net" part has always confused a lot of people making them to believe that those numbers were taken at the flywheel, so it still is one of the best options out there for great power in your Fiero, and dont forget the look also . Greetings ... Ales

Exactly what I was going to say. The LT1 HP rating is Net in the Vehicle the engine was designated for. Same thing goes for any engine, like the LS1 in a Camaro chassis is rated at xxx Net HP.

The ZZ4 however, was never a factory installed engine so it's 355 Brake HP is at the Flywheel. As Ales said The 300 Net HP LT1 is about 370 Brake HP as compared to the ZZ4's 355 Brake HP. So those 2 engines are a lot closer in power output than it would first appear.

You can't buy a new LT1 engine anymore & you gotta be pretty lucky to get a used LT1 that doesn't need rebuilding or major parts like the opti spark. I like using new engines, so I'd choose the ZZ4 carbed & then upgrade it to FI as you go along.

Archie

Thanks, I didn't know that the LT1 Hp where stated like that, that adds a plus for the lt1. But I too would prefer a new motor. Maybe I'll look around for a low mile Lt1 though.

Archie, I PM'd you regarding your kits.

Thanks

well, right now I'm leaning towards the Lt1, I should be able to get a decent (~50K) Lt1 for half the cost of the zz4 with all accesorries and intake needed. Not to mention the cost of a carb or tpi and whatever accessories are not included with the ZZ4. The only thing I'm having doubts about is the frame notching/reinforcing that has to be done. Does anyone have any advice to what was involved with the frame notching and reinforcing with their LT1 swap?

I'm biased as well. But mine's not running yet.

LT1 was my first choice just because of the reversable intake. Then I found a good deal on my motor.

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quote Originally posted by newfie: well, right now I'm leaning towards the Lt1, I should be able to get a decent (~50K) Lt1 for half the cost of the zz4 with all accesorries and intake needed. Not to mention the cost of a carb or tpi and whatever accessories are not included with the ZZ4. The only thing I'm having doubts about is the frame notching/reinforcing that has to be done. Does anyone have any advice to what was involved with the frame notching and reinforcing with their LT1 swap?

Here you are sir. http://dtcc.cz28.com/LT1Fiero/index.htm This is my car, and should give you a good idea as to whats involved.

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1986 GT, LT1/4T60E
http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html
On the forum
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045554.

Is that a holley stealth ram mounted on there backwards?? I didn't think that was possible?

quote Originally posted by newfie: .......... The only thing I'm having doubts about is the frame notching/reinforcing that has to be done. ........

I saw that and I really didn't like it. Cutting is extensive in my opinion. I would like to see a dyno sheet of this engine in a Fiero compared to a healthy TPI and see if it is worth it. But I do agree that the LT1 looks more stock in the Fiero compartment compared to any other SBC.

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: I saw that and I really didn't like it. Cutting is extensive in my opinion. I would like to see a dyno sheet of this engine in a Fiero compared to a healthy TPI and see if it is worth it. But I do agree that the LT1 looks more stock in the Fiero compartment compared to any other SBC.

Vs a stock TPI the HSR has and will outperform the TPI. I don't want the HSR for performance. Although it will perform just fine. I wanted something different. And I love the look of the reversed intake. The HSR is either going to be difficult, or expensive. I'm shooting for difficult. I'll have to run multiple coils either like the LS1, or Northstar. Depending on compatability. I'll also have to have a cam and crank sensor. I'm hoping I can modify a distributor to have both signals. Otherwise, I'll have to do something in the timing cover. Right now I'm doing a 5 spd swap for someone, so my swap has been put aside.

At present I don't own either engine, but I owned an LT1 powered Trans Am and it was wicked fast. The LT1 powered Fieros are even faster. Even though you have to be lucky to get a low miles to new LT1 there are still a lot of them available. That would be my preference... if not wait for the LS1 swap.

The ZZ4 worries me a bit because I don't know if it would pass emissions, (a requirement for me). Maybe after you add TPI but a carbed one?

Yeah, I guess the emissions should be a 'pro' for the LT1 as well. I move around and might have to pass emissions one day. I'm pretty set on the LT1 right now, the framerail cutting kinda scares me but I think I've researched enough that I'll do it right. I might have to call on a better welder to due the final welding though. I've started looking on ebay and some of the f-body and 'vette forums to get an idea on the price of a low-mile LT1. Anyone know of any websites to look for low mile engines? Preferbly in the mid-west. Thanks for the help.

Hi newfie,

I found a site that sells used Corvette & Camaro LT1 engines, (Corvette 300 net HP, Camaro 275 net HP), I personally dont know this guys, so I have no experience with them, you should give them a call:

http://www.topgunengines.com/page/page/515546.htm

Good Luck ...

Ales

I paid $800 for my 36,000 mile LT1. If you look, you'll find one.

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1986 GT, LT1/4T60E
http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html
On the forum
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045554.

I like my LT1... ;-)

Chuck

WOW, chuck do you have any more details on the buildup of that??? A turbo LT1, I never thought it would fit and the install looks awesome.

I went with a ZZ4 crate engine and a carb.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.
ZZ4 Powered !!

I think.. a longitudal Monster 572 is in your future.. lol if you going to go big.. why not do it right ?!?! lol

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Custom Fiero 2M4 - 3800 Swap Coming Soon?....

I too would go ZZ4 with a Carb. Then I would start saving again and go MPFI. In my opinion that would be the way to go. Nothing like sitting in your car tunning it with a Laptop.

Hey Chris-----do you have the yet?

Waiting on the new clutch cable to come back. The new on is defective and had to be returned to the Fiero warehouse for an exchange. It was not holding pressure. Just my luck. On a side not though, The car is running good and tuned. I have seen it and it looks great. Keith did drive it for a short distance before realizing that the clutch was getting spongy. It idles wild and revs fast with the mods we've done. As soon as this clutch line comes back, it should be coming home.

Clutch cable???? Am I missing something? No hydraulic??