I'm wondering if anyone has pictures or a thread about repairing major rust holes in the frame of the fiero. I want to save my car rather than part it out but there is just so much wrong with it I think that I would have to start from the bottom. Thanks.
Originally posted by timwdegner: Any chance rubyred did a thread on frame rust repair?
What about for those of us who do not have access to a sand blaster? On the other hand, what does an acceptable sandblaster cost?
I see Stratohacker posted threads and I don't know of others.
You can rent a sandblaster at a Rent-all, (You will only need it for a day) and failing that, a grinder.
The grinders aren't as thorough at getting pinholes or nooks and crannies.
Grinders are also going to take off more metal than you need to, to get at the rust. I would rent a sandblaster once the parts are in the clear, and use silica sand as the medium. Silica is alot faster and cleaner cut and not messy like regular sand.
Welding new metal is stronger than fiberglass, but fiberglass is much more convenient and does not rust down the road. It kind of depends on the structural integrity required. For frame parts, I would not use fiberglass, I would use steel. From the pics on the threads you can see the work, but at the end you have another 20 years of service in the vehicle.
You will also know better what you are dealing with once things are fully disassembled. You could even take the frame to a metal finishing place and have it sandblasted by a pro.
Good luck.
Arn
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08:34 AM
rubyredfiero Member
Posts: 720 From: Belle River, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jul 2003
Thank you Arn for the plug. Yes, I am in the process of doing a complete resto with lots of pics. I did not start a thread because there have been similar subjects covered by other PFF members. Besides, I'm not the smartest when it comes to threads on servers, most of it is over my head. It took me six months just to get PIP to work. I am doing a rail resto for another 85GT Fiero owner who is not a PFF member, and the process is a take off from Steve Rossi's thread. My rail is one piece notched and bent in four places to represent the original as much as possible. Nothing wrong with Steve's, mine involves more work. I also made a fixture to make additional rails. I have numerous Fiero owners asking me to make them and possibly install them. I attached a couple of pictures that I have. The green tape represent the length before the final cut.
The pic (below) is of the rail in the fixture and tach welded. Unclamped of course.
The pic (below) is a close up of the opposite side where it was formed NOT cut.
Steve and others are right about rigidity. You must get good weld penetration. Stainless steel is a good idea. It takes a good knowlege of material to weld SS to HSLA material (High Strength Low Alloy). Regarding the rust resto without sand blasting takes lots and lots and lots of elbow grease. You can use abrasive wheels, dremel with a deburring tool, scrapers or whatever takes the rust off. That takes dedication and want. "I want to do that" is different than "I like to do that". Time is also a factor. Hope this helps.
Yes, the fixture is designed to duplicate the rails. I also have a template to mark and cut the tubing when it's straight. Every rail will be the same. The only difference is where the rail is cut at each end to suit each application. One car was so bad, I had to fabricate both ends of the car. Under the rear window was a PITA. Was the work worth it? Yes, because material is $75, welding is $100, "I saved another Fiero".......PRICELESS.
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09:20 PM
STRATOHACKER Member
Posts: 820 From: Columbus, OH U.S.A Registered: Jun 2003
Was the work worth it? Yes, because material is $75, welding is $100, "I saved another Fiero".......PRICELESS.
That's what thought when I repaired mine. I would like to comment on a couple of things here:
1) Rubyred mentioned that this will take a lot of time and that is a fact. Go slow and make sure you get all the scale and rust off before you repair it.
2) In my pictures and text I mentioned I used POR15 and fiberglass cloth, this is true POR15 can be used in place of fiberglass resin to repair metal, however I only used the cloth to cover non-stuctural holes etc. I welded in new sheet metal in the trunk and side ares where there were holes larger than 2"
3) On my car we were able to leave the tops of upper rails on to act as a guide and to weld the new boxes to. This made lining everything up when it was time to put thebody back on much easier as the body pads had not been moved. You may not be so lucky but try to leave as much as you can. It will make your life easier later.
Rubyred, Nice Work !!!! good to see someone else reversing time and nature's curse
Richey
[This message has been edited by STRATOHACKER (edited 08-23-2004).]
Is it just me or is the sheet metal in the battery tray area pretty thin? I was trying to weld a patch panel in place, fresh original steel on either side but I burned through it like butter. I had my MIG on the lowest setting!
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12:29 AM
STRATOHACKER Member
Posts: 820 From: Columbus, OH U.S.A Registered: Jun 2003
Is it just me or is the sheet metal in the battery tray area pretty thin? I was trying to weld a patch panel in place, fresh original steel on either side but I burned through it like butter. I had my MIG on the lowest setting!
Not just you it's really thin. I let my buddy who is a really good welder do that. He claims he practices on pop cans LOL Richey
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07:40 AM
rubyredfiero Member
Posts: 720 From: Belle River, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jul 2003
I had the same problem burning thru with core wire. I added gas to my MIG and use 0.020" solid wire. I can weld 24ga material without burning thru. I do burn thru occasionally, but it's my lack of experience. A good experienced welder can dial in the equipment and make me look like the amateur I am. But these buds are not allways around. So practice. I like the idea of pop cans, but are they not aluminum? I hope all this is helping the original thread starter and others, otherwise we are just rambling on. Thx.
Well I purchased his frame rails, and I must say they are excellent!!! In shape and fit. I needed to trim about 1/2 inch off but I'd rather buy something thats too long then too short. you can see them installed here.. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/046363.html
Great work and well worth the money!!!
Chris
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12:28 AM
rubyredfiero Member
Posts: 720 From: Belle River, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jul 2003
WOW! RubyRed you may be onto an invaluble accessory for our Fieros! I am considering replacing the drivers' side rail on the 87 I just bought my daughter, What is involved with actuallly installing them? (I'd have a local pro do it for me anyway) Would the stainless be better for longevity anyway? And what would a pair go for in US $$?
------------------ 1000+ posts, and the Fiero is STILL in the garage!
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11:21 PM
4BanGinFun Member
Posts: 1321 From: keswick Ontario Canada Registered: Oct 2001
well did you check out my post about replacing the rails??? it shows what you have to take off the car. It is not all that hard to do just takes time and some planing i found i needed to weld a piece of flat bar to the top of the Made rails to give me something to weld the rail to the shock tower to then if you wanted you could weld on some flat bar tabs at the end of the rail to attached it to the rear of the car i didnt i just ran acouple beads to hold everything in place and i might add shes soild!!! edit: to add some more pics for you this one shows how i welded it across the shock tower and at the front of the car before the firewall
[This message has been edited by 4BanGinFun (edited 11-02-2004).]
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11:35 PM
Nov 2nd, 2004
rubyredfiero Member
Posts: 720 From: Belle River, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jul 2003
USFiero - Well anybody with some welding and fabrication knowledge can do the rails. I have been incapacitated since Oct 2nd with a pinched nerve in my back. I was caught in the midst of an engine swap. Having said that I will not be doing anything for a while, including the rails. 4BanGinFun got my last set. But I'm sure he can make you a pair if you need them quick. I plan to do a thread up on these rails, including dimensions as soon as I am able to. There are a lot of guys out there that can do their own welding, just need encouragement. Just one advise, if anyone is planning to build their own rails, YOU MUST allow clearance for the filler tubes on the driver's side. Look at 4BanGinFun's thread. This is one of his pics that shows the clearance.
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12:06 PM
PFF
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4BanGinFun Member
Posts: 1321 From: keswick Ontario Canada Registered: Oct 2001
Really need some detailed pics to give good advice.. Unless the whole rail is shot, you can probably find out where it's rusted out and butt weld in some new steel.. The whole rail where the rear a-arm bolted to busted out on my 85 when I was driving it (whew.. that was a rush).. But usually you can just use some plate, and cut it perfectly and make, basically, a new rail.. (piece by piece)..
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then if you wanted you could weld on some flat bar tabs at the end of the rail to attached it to the rear of the car i didnt i just ran acouple beads to hold everything in place and i might add shes soild!!! .JPG)
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