Just looking for experiences. I plan on starting to get the stuff together for a v8 engine swap. My uncle suggests a 327 over a 350. Says a 327 would be more then enough for my little car. Hes into big trucks with big engines. But it sort of got me curious to any up sides the 327 would have over the 350. I'm sure someone has done a 327 instead of a 350. The pros, the cons. The ups, the downs. Opinions are welcome just try and keep the flames on low.
Mike

go 350 bud. I drove one yesterday... nothing else can compare

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/047628.html

[This message has been edited by MilleniumFiero (edited 11-28-2004).]

Same physical size, same weight, less cubic inches, less potential horsepower, all the same conversion issues.

350 should be more common and easier to find.

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RickN
White 88GT 5spd
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Ive been considering this also.. I was thinking a 302/327 that could rev would make an excellent and more tranny friendly engine. you really dont need all that torque off the line, may as well move the powerband up the rpms. In the end you could have just as fast a car, with the 302/327 but with more drivable charecteristics.. I guess it all depends on how you build the engine too.

Good Luck!

327 is a higher revving motor any way you are a winner .

You have to ask the guys who were around in the 60's. (like me)

The 327 is a screamer. Some came at 300 hp. The 350 was developed when emissions started cropping up and they wanted to maintain the torque. It is true you can get a bit more out of a 350.

Essentially, the 350 is a workhorse. There is no doubt it will do a magnificent job.

If, however, you want something unique, with better top end, the 327 is a good bet.

Especially if you can find an old high performance one somewhere. From a sentimental point of view, a 327 plate on a Fiero, and a big ol' 4 barrel, would be a real eye catcher at the car shows.

Arn

Doesnt really matter, you can get plenty of power out of either. The 327 revs up higher and quicker in most cases.

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I agree with everyone her either is a great choice for the Fiero, however it it was me it would be a 327

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short stroke engines are cool

350 is 4" bore with 3.48" stroke
327 is 4" bore with 3.25" stroke
302 is 4" bore with 3.00" stroke

If you use pistons for a 383 with 6" rods, you can bump the rod length of your 327 from 5.700 to 6.250. You can go with 6.375" rods in a 302 with the same pistons. For high revving engines, longer rods are better.

Other interesting combinations:
347 is 4.125" bore with 3.25" stroke
321 is 4.125" bore with 3.00" stroke

Both of these have the advantage of using a larger bore with more room for bigger valves.

A V8 Fiero is going to be fast no matter what. I'd really like to see some of these oddball combos built... The short gearing of the available transmissions favors and engine that revs like crazy.

A 327 will in general rev up quicker, and have a wider powerband with a much higher redline. Downside... it's a mid 1960's engine, that means they are 35 years old or so... getting harder to find a good core engine. A modern 5.7l with the modern electronics will probably kick it's ass as far as torque/mileage/ and lifespan with less oil leaks no matter how much I did love that old engine. I'd look for a modern 5.7L so I could get all the improvements several decades have brought about like main seals, oil pans and valve covers that don't leak, ignition systems good for longer than 12 month, fuel systems that start and drive in any weather at any altitude... that sort of thing. But the 327 was an awesome package, my Dad's 64 Impala had 4 speed, 4 barrel Carter( original equipment and I've still got it), 327, 3.55 gears ( I think) and kicked ass.

Like already said, 327 lacks a little of the torque of the 350. But you cant use all that anyway. 327 will def outrev a 350. We had 301-327s in super modifieds in the early 70s easily turning 9000+ rpms. Older Corvettes w/ 327s were getting 375 hp stock in some versions.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 11-28-2004).]

Why not destroke a 350?

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Like already said, 327 lacks a little of the torque of the 350. But you cant use all that anyway. 327 will def outrev a 350. We had 301-327s in super modifieds in the early 70s easily turning 9000+ rpms. Older Corvettes w/ 327s were getting 375 hp stock in some versions.

I came from that time period! My best friend and I in high school built up his '66 Impala SS, 327ci w/ 375hp, then moved the package into a '69 Camaro Z28 in the very early '70s. Awsome engine, I'm sure that modern aftermarket technology could pull even more power out of it but it just depends on what you want the engine to do.
As mentioned in an earlier posting the 327 can be made from a modern 350 block with the right parts. My earlier comment was a little misleading about being harder to find, I was talking about part popularity, cranks, etc (I didn't intend to mean it would be hard to find a 327 engine).

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: You have to ask the guys who were around in the 60's. (like me) The 327 is a screamer. Some came at 300 hp. The 350 was developed when emissions started cropping up and they wanted to maintain the torque. It is true you can get a bit more out of a 350. Essentially, the 350 is a workhorse. There is no doubt it will do a magnificent job. If, however, you want something unique, with better top end, the 327 is a good bet. Especially if you can find an old high performance one somewhere. From a sentimental point of view, a 327 plate on a Fiero, and a big ol' 4 barrel, would be a real eye catcher at the car shows. Arn

I've actually been wondering this for a little while. My friend's dad works in a garage, and his manager wants to sell a HO 327 with a 4 barrel. From what I hear from my friends dad is that it's built up and definitely a screamer.... maybe I will follow through with this.

Matt

quote Originally posted by fiero go fast: I've actually been wondering this for a little while. My friend's dad works in a garage, and his manager wants to sell a HO 327 with a 4 barrel. From what I hear from my friends dad is that it's built up and definitely a screamer.... maybe I will follow through with this. Matt

Without hesitation, go,go,go,

Arn

Thanks for the opinions guys. My uncle is a gear head and really knows how to get parts so that wouldnt be to big of a problem. And if down the road I wanna get a lil more power out of it I know he could help me out there too. Hopefully if everything works out I can get the parts together and get the swap started in Febuary or so. I'm getting excited already. lol

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Without hesitation, go,go,go, Arn

will see what i can do and I'll sure as heck keep everyone updated He said he is asking 500 for everything, but can probably get it down to 300 when the guy is in need of money.

Matt

[This message has been edited by fiero go fast (edited 11-28-2004).]

Go to uhaul and rent a cheve pick up with the new 327 , 5.3 lt i think. Shift point at 6000 rpm.

quote Originally posted by alienfiero: Go to uhaul and rent a cheve pick up with the new 327 , 5.3 lt i think. Shift point at 6000 rpm.

this is where i'm gettin my donor motor. i'm just planning on picking one up at a salvage yard from a new chevy/gmc and do a carb. conversion on it...

[This message has been edited by fastblack (edited 11-29-2004).]

if you do go 327 then be sure to find a pre '68 4 bolt main block they are stronger.

First off, I would definitely pick 327 over a 350. Why? Higher revving for a better trans match. Also, the new 5.3 Gen3 small-block is not the same as the old 327. It has a different bore/stroke ratio.

quote Originally posted by Mr. Pat: Why not destroke a 350?

Mr. Pat makes a good point here. Another route to consider is building an LT1-302. How, you ask? Simple. As we saw above a 350 and a 302 have the same bore (4”) with a different stroke length (3.48" vs 3"). In the early ‘90s GM built a “baby” LT1 with a 4.3L displacement. This engine had a crank with a 3” stroke. So, you put the 4.3L crank into the 5.7L block and you have a 5.0L(302ci) LT1. Which gives you a screamer with newer technology. It also puts the LT1’s high rpm short runner intake in an application it was designed for. Built right, you could have a 300+ hp engine that can be driven daily and have a redline near to that of a Honda S2000. Or if daily reliability is not a requirement you could probably get over 400 hp and ring it out to about 9,500 - 10,000rpm. Can you imagine the sound coming out of the pipes Oh, yeah baby!!!

The late (1969 and newer) 327 used the 350 block. The earlier engines used the 283 block punched to 4". The early blocks are hard to find and have a smaller main journal dia than the older blocks. ANY 350 block will accept a late (large journal) 327 crank. Probably the cheapest solution is to get a new large journal 327 crank and rods and throw them into any 4 bolt 350 block.

Go to www.mortec.com and learn more than you ever wanted to know about the small block chevy. All of the info is there.

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1986 SE 350 V8

quote Originally posted by LS1 Troy: Can you imagine the sound coming out of the pipes Oh, yeah baby!!!

OH CHRIST!!!!!! It would wake the dead

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1986 GT, LT1/4T60E
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On the forum
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I've heard that sound...at nine grand it makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck, coming at you, it's not unlike the sound of an F-104 Starfighter, sort of a howling, moaning scream...

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I think ive decided on what I want to do with my LT1 It sounds pretty good at 6300, cant think at 9 grand!

I've heard an old-school mechanically injected 327 in a Corvette. One word: SEXY!
As others have said, the 327 power characteristics are probably better suited to the fiero too.

Of course you probably can't find an original one now, but the 302s that came in the 60's Camaros would make an awesome motor. LS1 Troy's idea for a new 302 sounds great as well.

Whatever you decide on, make it scream!

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Troy beat me too it, definitely start with a late model (roller cam) block and build from there. I am not a huge fan of the overall Lt1 package, but there are some very good items in there worth using. The cranks and pistons are light and the powdered metal rods are much stronger. I don't like the reverse cooling or the optispark, but the rotating assembly is very good and the Lt4 one is even better (lighter). The rotating assy in the 5.7 or 4.3 LT1 is a drop in to any post 86 and pre Lt1 SBC. The 4.3 will require the 5.7 pistons, but that is it.

Also if you are fond of the steel forged cranks from the pre-86 block (they are cheap to get), those too can bolt into the above post 86 pre Lt1 block with a $30 adapter.

Match any of the above combinations with vortec heads (flow better than LT1's) and either the GM ZZ4 cam or the GM HOT cam and you have an excellent power package. The ZZ4/Vortec combo will get very close to 385hp and the Hot cam/Vortec will produce 420hp. I have the ZZ4/Vortec combo and drive it every day. It idles at 600 rpm and can accelerate in 5th from 35 mph - and this is with a carb!

Now as far as the 302, 327, 350 comparo... they will all make the same hp if they have the same parts, just the smaller engines will take more RPM's to reach that power level. I have desktop dyno graphs for the 283, 302, 327, 350, 406 and more with the ZZ4/Vortec combo and they all come out within 5 HP of each other. The only difference is the RPM's at which they peak. It is simply a matter of air/fuel flow and once the airflow peaks (should be close to the same because everything else the air is restricted by is the same) the HP will peak as well. Smaller engines pump less air per revolution, so they can rev higher before they reach that peak. On an uncorked ZZ4/Vortec 400hp combo, the 350 peaks at 5250 RPM and the 302 at 6000.

Now the larger better flowing intakes and heads on smaller engines could potentially create some low RPM drivability issues, but we are talking Fiero's here with a 12 something to 1 1st gear and a car under 2900lbs. Also, the advances in combustion chamber design and EFI make this much more feasible than it was 30 years ago.

I still would go the 350 route if I had it to do over again...

I've read this whole thread and nothing has been said about the 305? I know its a low horsepower motor, but what it lacks in hp it makes up for it with torque HP sells cars TQ wins races, remember this guys. what about those tuned port injection 305's those are decent little v8's. one other thing to remember our fieros are like 2300 pds. soaking wet. 305 is all we need. trust me -gary-

Two schools of thought here. one school moto is "cubic horspower". The other school promotes a large bore/short stroke configuration in order to maximize rpm potential...... I was actually kicked out of both schools when I built my de-stroked 400 small block. Crank spacers are available to enable the 350 crank to drop into the big bore 400 block, giving 377ci. With 6" rods, aluminum heads, and moderate cam, etc., it puts out ~ 425HP and redily spins to 6500+ time after time with reliability.
Small blocks Chevs are like women. they all look about the same in the dark, so performance is all that matters to me.

Russ

The 305 is a nice motor, just not usualy included when it comes to Performance sbc's, Im not to sure why as Im no sbc master. I think they have a smaller bore, and cannot be bored out like the 350's..

Big thing is the 305's were never offered in a 4 bolt main and ALL of the 2 bolt main blocks had looser tolerances at the foundry. That may not be a big deal with modern casting techniques, but back in the 60's and 70's it did make a difference in several areas. We routinely found 283's and bored them to 4" making them 302's, only to find that the cylinder walls were too thin at some points to be usable due to core shift in the casting process. The ones that DID work we put in sprint cars that had claiming rules. They generally ran a half a season before they were throw aways, but if you got claimed you weren't out a lot of money. These were the REAL "drive it like you stole it" racers. Spare engines were waiting in the truck, even for lo-buck teams.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by CaddyRob: The 305 is a nice motor, just not usualy included when it comes to Performance sbc's, Im not to sure why as Im no sbc master. I think they have a smaller bore, and cannot be bored out like the 350's..

quote Originally posted by freshfiero: ... one other thing to remember our fieros are like 2300 pds. soaking wet. 305 is all we need. trust me -gary-

Depending on the model you're off about 400 pounds not including the driver aren't you?

Our 327s in the race cars stood out on the track, they had a whole different tone reving that high, almost like a model airplane engine. Cubes arent necessarily a requirement. Ferraris get plenty with small engines. 288 GTO had over 400 hp in street trim with 2.8 ltr V8 @ like 7500 rpm. Ferrari V12s like in Testa Rosa were only 302 cubic inches.

305's are Chevies just like anything else... because of the displacement they will make about the same torque as a 302...

But the 305 has a smaller bore and must use smaller valves than the bigger bore engines.
The smaller valves and the fact that the smaller bore shrouds them more limit the 305's horsepower and RPM potential.

I had a 327 made out of a 350 in my 78 Landcruiser. I ran 10.5:1 compression on regular gas. I had an off road dual pattern crane cam in it. Crane reccomeded that I retard the Cam 4degrees. I did all of that and was really happy with it. Rear wheel horse power was 185, The teck said that did'nt impress him but the 625 Foot pounds of troque did. (That was in 3rd Gear, and I don't know the multiplication factor.) After that one of my buddies talked me into having a 406 built, Aluminum Holly heads maximum off road cam. Lots of bottom end torque but runs out of power at 4800rpm. The cruiser weights in at 4700 pounds.. If I were going to put another engine in I would go back to the 327. I was flat impressed. A vett owner saw me pass a logging truck with it and he hit me up later and said he wanted to buy the engine from me.
327, Excellent engine, just talk to your cam sales, and listen to their pointers. ( I know, I know, My buddy knows more about cams than those guys.)

Man i can't believe this! I'm away from the forum for two days and the subject of the 327 comes up. This is the engine I am building up. I'm found this article that built up a 327 with a hydraulic roller cam that put out 408hp @5700 and 400ftlbs of TQ @4800. Those are impressive numbers on 9.1:1 compression ratio. This engine was also above 330 ftlbs of tq at 2500 rpm. The only time it dropped below 330 was at 6100 rpm when it hit 313ft lbs of tq. and 364hp. I feel that this engine will be well suited to the fiero because it doesn't produce tranny destroying torque and will rev as high as some of these new fangled DOHC engines. I'm am using a large journal forged crank with manley H-beam rods keith black hypereutectic pistons all balanced. My block is a 4-bolt 350 small block out of a 1969 pickup. World SR torquer heads will top it of with a edelbrock performer RPM air-gap intake and demon carb. The SR torquers outflow the orginal 492 castings a little and hopefully this will allow me to pull a slightly higher HP number than this particular buildup in chevy hi performance. Hopefully i will have this done by carlisle and i will put it on the chassis dyno to see what it does at the wheels. The cool thing is my machinist says that the rotating assembly i'm using should turn 8k all day.

Like mentioned above, the 327 is basically a destroked 350. As such, it produces less low/midrange torque and has a lower compression ratio (if you use the same pistons). Because of the lower compression, and lower piston velocity, the 327 is more suitable for forced induction. It also has a higher RPM threshold.

And because of the reduced low/midrange torque, it isn't so hard on transmissions. If you pair it up with a short-ratio tranny (like in the 3.83-4.10 range), that'll be even easier on the tranny, and will increase the torque at the wheels. Since the 327 has a higher RPM threshold, you'll still have a respectable top speed.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-30-2004).]

by technicality.......the 350 is a STROKED 327, not vise versa. 327 came out 10 years before 350 in late 50s.