It's been a while since I have had my fiero out, in fact the last time I had it out was for the Southern Ontario Cruise. It was ashame that the track was closed that day becuase PBJ made a change to the wiring of my car, which he and Rockcrawl felt might have been the reason for it only turning 14.67 at the track. Well Saturday I took the car to the track, I wasn't going to post the result's because when ever anyone has tried to get a decent 4.9 discussion going it would get sent to the trash can by thread hijackers. In fact as most have noticed I hardly posted here in the longest time.Ok so I'm being very long winded and you want number right?
Only things diffrent from this run and my last PB of 14.67 are wiring changes made by Pete, I only had about 1/8 of a tank of gas and 1 gallon of that was race gas (last one if I recall was 3/4 Full tank) also instead of the 17" ADR Battle Axe's I went with a set of Stock Rims. In retrospect I wish I had taken the ADR's to the track with me just to see if they made a huge diffrence.
RT 1.032 (I know I was asleep at the wheel) 60 2.096 (Alot of wheel Spin) 1/8 9.179 1/4 14.184 1/4 97.01 (Used to Trap at 89)
nice way to end the season. Now put it away for the snow. yuck!!!
What was changed in the wiring?
Something to do with the ECM not seeing the power Steering pump. I know I hate the damn snow. Oh how I wish I could have sprayed it too. I also suspect the cold air 40 Degrees (guesstimate) helped too.
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02:54 PM
Black-Azz-GT Member
Posts: 2326 From: Florida Keys Registered: Oct 2003
Sweet! I aways thought that the FI 4.9's were running in limp mode!
This is dead on for the mathmatics of a 4.9 in a 2800lbs car. The math says 14.0 for exactly 2800lbs. This includes the driver, so the weightcould be of just a tad. Math never lies.
Good Job. I remember you telling me about this and I was just waiting to here back from you. I bet you can get 13's cause you talked about tire spin.
I'm glad one of us finished the season in running form
Arn
Sure was nice. Not posting it here was killing me. By as most may have noticed I layed off the forum in the last month. I got tired of all the 4.9 Negativity.
[This message has been edited by linenoise (edited 11-15-2004).]
Sweet! I aways thought that the FI 4.9's were running in limp mode!
This is dead on for the mathmatics of a 4.9 in a 2800lbs car. The math says 14.0 for exactly 2800lbs. This includes the driver, so the weightcould be of just a tad. Math never lies.
Good Job. I remember you telling me about this and I was just waiting to here back from you. I bet you can get 13's cause you talked about tire spin.
I wish I could try those Slicks that PBJ had again. I don't bet it's gonna happen this year.
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02:57 PM
Black-Azz-GT Member
Posts: 2326 From: Florida Keys Registered: Oct 2003
I'm really glad to hear the mod took a half second or more off your time. I'm instaling the fix today and I need it to clean up my tail pipe emissions. If I get a half second in the quarter well that's a bonus.
I'm really glad to hear the mod took a half second or more off your time. I'm instaling the fix today and I need it to clean up my tail pipe emissions. If I get a half second in the quarter well that's a bonus.
Emissions what are those , Best of Luck to ya.
[This message has been edited by linenoise (edited 11-15-2004).]
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03:43 PM
PFF
System Bot
ED's85GT Member
Posts: 1055 From: Statesville, NC. Registered: Feb 2002
Something to do with the ECM not seeing the power Steering pump.
Can you give more details on this?
My neighbor's 92 Deville will pull harder than my '85GT with 4.9 and 4T60E. My GT has never even come close to spinning tires, not even when i'm holding the brakes. Was your ecm throwing a code?
Ed
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04:33 PM
collinwestphal Member
Posts: 698 From: Waukesha, WI, USA Registered: Jun 2003
you can't spin your tires? whoa...you got some problems then. I can spin them for 3-4 seconds with only a 3000 rpm clutch dump. and thats with a stock v6 clutch, it slips.
My neighbor's 92 Deville will pull harder than my '85GT with 4.9 and 4T60E. My GT has never even come close to spinning tires, not even when i'm holding the brakes. Was your ecm throwing a code?
Ed
Not throwing any code. Seemed to run perfect. Rockcrawl or PBJ will have to chime in with a techinal respones. Other than learning to drive the car the credit goes to them.
you can't spin your tires? whoa...you got some problems then. I can spin them for 3-4 seconds with only a 3000 rpm clutch dump. and thats with a stock v6 clutch, it slips.
Most Auto's even with the 4.9 Don't spin them they just move out. I get spin under certain conditions. Asphalt is a major factor for my tires.
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05:39 PM
collinwestphal Member
Posts: 698 From: Waukesha, WI, USA Registered: Jun 2003
I have a 4.9/4T60E combo and I couldn't spin the tires unless it rained out before I got the idle learn(sail on problem) thing corrected. Now they spin a little but not excessively when it's dry, it's enough to say " Hey! It's not stock" Besides, if your spinning...your not moving.... I think we determined I had the 2:73 gears....I have 16" rims/tires off a 2001Toyota Celica
Dragon1/Brian
[This message has been edited by Dragon1 (edited 11-15-2004).]
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05:59 PM
collinwestphal Member
Posts: 698 From: Waukesha, WI, USA Registered: Jun 2003
A perfect launch for me is when the tires just squeak a little through the whole 1st gear, and a little of 2nd. That means I'm gassing it enough, but not so much that I'm spinning out.
Before putting my car away for the winter, I took it out on the back roads, and pounded it. Whoa, was that clutch slipping! I dont normally get a chance to go 0-100 that often. That was a lot of fun. I'll take it out this friday with my accelerometer. The V6 clutch will work fine for most people, but for all out racing when every tenth counts, you need something better. I have 8000 miles on my v6 clutch racing it all the time, and I'm very glad I did that first to see what it could take. But I know a better clutch would knock off maybe up to 1/2 second in the 1/4.
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06:11 PM
Mr. Pat Member
Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
I have a 4.9/4T60E combo and I couldn't spin the tires unless it rained out before I got the idle learn(sail on problem) thing corrected. Now they spin a little but not excessively when it's dry, it's enough to say " Hey! It's not stock" Besides, if your spinning...your not moving.... I think we determined I had the 2:73 gears....I have 16" rims/tires off a 2001Toyota Celica
Dragon1/Brian
at 1st I didn't notice it was spinning (when it does), the kumho's don't squeal but it feels as if the trans has slipped, then 2nd gear hits and away it goes. Mainly it's asphalt that does this to me. Concrete in most cases is an amazing launch.
I could hardly spin my 4T60-E LT1. But I had really sticky tyres and heavy rims. Im getting new ones in about 2 weeks, we will see if that helps.
I atually consider it a good thing. But yes with the 17's (245) I have great contact. In fact I can't wait to see if I can duplicate this or go faster with the 17's on.
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07:32 PM
PFF
System Bot
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Not throwing any code. Seemed to run perfect. Rockcrawl or PBJ will have to chime in with a techinal respones. Other than learning to drive the car the credit goes to them.
"The power steering pressure switch input to the ECM can not be ignored. If it is left open, it will disable fuel trim. It needs to be connected to a working psps, or to +12v in the case of the Fiero. "
Fuel trim is changed by the ecm reacting to what the O2 sensor is telling it. with out fuel trim and block learn the engine is run on a preset table. In short terminal C9 at the ecm need 12 Volts, 12 volts can be found a C203 terminal F, J, or K
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07:40 PM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I have found first hand the final drive in the transmission along with a higher stall torque converter makes a big difference. We reciently installed a 3.33 fd 4T60 in Sabers49's car with a 2100 stall, his car kicks out sideways easily now.
Pete
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07:46 PM
86fieroEarl Member
Posts: 2203 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Jun 2002
I have found first hand the final drive in the transmission along with a higher stall torque converter makes a big difference. We reciently installed a 3.33 fd 4T60 in Sabers49's car with a 2100 stall, his car kicks out sideways easily now.
Pete
Wicked. Glad to hear his is running good. I always suspected the 3.33 Would be a major factor. Maybe with it I'd be well in into the 13's. Think about a price would ya.
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08:00 PM
Mr. Pat Member
Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
Why go 3.33 when you can go 3.42 Thats what I have in my 4T60-E. It pulls 1.8 60ft times!!!!! And thats with the ungodly heavy 18's. I wouldnt change it for the world, unless I had rediculous low end, then id go 2.93 or something so its not as hard on the tranny.
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08:08 PM
ED's85GT Member
Posts: 1055 From: Statesville, NC. Registered: Feb 2002
"The power steering pressure switch input to the ECM can not be ignored. If it is left open, it will disable fuel trim. It needs to be connected to a working psps, or to +12v in the case of the Fiero. "
Fuel trim is changed by the ecm reacting to what the O2 sensor is telling it. with out fuel trim and block learn the engine is run on a preset table. In short terminal C9 at the ecm need 12 Volts, 12 volts can be found a C203 terminal F, J, or K
Please forgive my total ignorance on this, If my BLM enabled sometimes says "yes" then i have the PSPS (or +12V to C9) wired correctly, right? Thanks.
Why go 3.33 when you can go 3.42 Thats what I have in my 4T60-E. It pulls 1.8 60ft times!!!!! And thats with the ungodly heavy 18's. I wouldnt change it for the world, unless I had rediculous low end, then id go 2.93 or something so its not as hard on the tranny.
Say it aint so. I thought 3.33 was the Shortest available for the 4T60E? I selected this motor becuase I do a lot of Stop light to stop light. See Pat you made me want to do something more to mine. The wife told me to tell you to STOP IT! Lol
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08:18 PM
ED's85GT Member
Posts: 1055 From: Statesville, NC. Registered: Feb 2002
you can't spin your tires? whoa...you got some problems then. I can spin them for 3-4 seconds with only a 3000 rpm clutch dump. and thats with a stock v6 clutch, it slips.
I have thrown some money at this 4.9 in hopes of being able to keep up with my neighbor's '92 Deville. All sensors are brand new. I have a high output coil. New plugs, MSD wires, perf cap and rotor. New fuel pump. (GM pump) new fuel filter, and pressure regulator. as of 2 weeks ago, a brand new set of Mustang 5.0 fuel injectors ( the new injectors sure did make a difference, it feels a lot peppier now and idles a lot better) Ecm shows no codes. MPG is about 11 to 12 in town with "easy" driving (I'm sure i have the 2:78 trans, and my tires are the same OD as the ones that the Deville has.
Ed
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08:21 PM
Mr. Pat Member
Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
LOL, now I have no proof that it's a 3.42, but the guy who sold it to me told me it was 3.42, and not 3.33 like I thought. Sure launches hard either way.
Tell your wife I said hey And to stop pestering you with such trivial things
I have thrown some money at this 4.9 in hopes of being able to keep up with my neighbor's '92 Deville. All sensors are brand new. I have a high output coil. New plugs, MSD wires, perf cap and rotor. New fuel pump. (GM pump) new fuel filter, and pressure regulator. as of 2 weeks ago, a brand new set of Mustang 5.0 fuel injectors ( the new injectors sure did make a difference, it feels a lot peppier now and idles a lot better) Ecm shows no codes. MPG is about 11 to 12 in town with "easy" driving (I'm sure i have the 2:78 trans, and my tires are the same OD as the ones that the Deville has.
Ed
Looking at your Gas Mileage I would say somethings way off. I'm not getting the best but I ca see 18 Driving it nicely.
I have thrown some money at this 4.9 in hopes of being able to keep up with my neighbor's '92 Deville. All sensors are brand new. I have a high output coil. New plugs, MSD wires, perf cap and rotor. New fuel pump. (GM pump) new fuel filter, and pressure regulator. as of 2 weeks ago, a brand new set of Mustang 5.0 fuel injectors ( the new injectors sure did make a difference, it feels a lot peppier now and idles a lot better) Ecm shows no codes. MPG is about 11 to 12 in town with "easy" driving (I'm sure i have the 2:78 trans, and my tires are the same OD as the ones that the Deville has.
Ed
Somethings gotta be wrong. If im heavy with my LT1, I still get 15-16mpg. 11-12 is insane. My buddies blown 454 gets 15 on the highway.
LOL, now I have no proof that it's a 3.42, but the guy who sold it to me told me it was 3.42, and not 3.33 like I thought. Sure launches hard either way.
Tell your wife I said hey And to stop pestering you with such trivial things
Again, awsome times. Your mph arnt much off mine.
Dude 3.42 is so yesterday I just found out that 3.73 is available. Wooot Someone pray for my wallet I sense it's gonna get smacked around.
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08:28 PM
Mr. Pat Member
Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
On Rock site he states "There are several different overall drive ratios available in these transmissions ranging from 2.73:1 to 3.73:1, and possibly more. The overall ratio is a combination of the drive & driven sprocket ratio and the final drive ratio, and has nothing to do with 1-4 gears."
Which would lead one to believe that all 4T60E's should launch the same. Maybe we need to investigate if it's the stall converter, and not the Final Drive. I'll be a Guinea Pig!
I have the 3.42 out of a lumina z34. It does make a huge difference.
The 3.73 comes from the four cylinder cars and was told will not work.
TY for the input. Not Doubting you in the least, any numbers, It would be nice to know what the diffrences in performance actually are. Anyone else amazed that we can actually have a productive 4.9 Thread??????
[This message has been edited by linenoise (edited 11-15-2004).]
I have thrown some money at this 4.9 in hopes of being able to keep up with my neighbor's '92 Deville. All sensors are brand new. I have a high output coil. New plugs, MSD wires, perf cap and rotor. New fuel pump. (GM pump) new fuel filter, and pressure regulator. as of 2 weeks ago, a brand new set of Mustang 5.0 fuel injectors ( the new injectors sure did make a difference, it feels a lot peppier now and idles a lot better) Ecm shows no codes. MPG is about 11 to 12 in town with "easy" driving (I'm sure i have the 2:78 trans, and my tires are the same OD as the ones that the Deville has.
Ed
Ed:
Let me know if you find out anything...I'm having the same mpg problem even though I haven't changed the injectors yet, even though I did get about 20mpg going from here to Boone last week (go figure).
I'm getting a little frustrated with this as I'm sure you are. Nathan
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10:02 PM
I Annoy Member
Posts: 263 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Mar 2004
