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SBC (L98) Swap Question by Formula88
Started on: 07-12-2004 01:20 PM
Replies: 10
Last post by: California Kid on 07-21-2004 08:58 PM
Formula88
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Report this Post07-12-2004 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
I'm considering swapping in a used L98 since I can get one complete with all accessories, ECM, etc. That would make the swap easier than piecing together a TPI setup for a carbed engine. But I have a few questions.

Which L98 to get? I know the Vette L98 has aluminum heads, but did all F-body L98s have cast iron heads or did some of them come with aluminum? I've also heard that the Vette and F-body have different fuel line setups for the TPI. Which is better for the swap into a V6 Fiero, or does it matter?

Any other things to look out for on an L98? I figure that would get me into a SBC relatively cheaply, and I can always upgrade to a more serious motor later. I'd prefer to stay away from an LT1 swap since I don't want to move the engine over and notch the frame. That also keeps my options open for using a ZZ4 style engine later.

My primary requirements for the swap are:
-conventional SBC so I don't have to move the engine (although an LS1 swap would make me reconsider)
-Aluminum heads
-Emissions legal (cats required, and probably require F.I. of some kind - most likely TPI)

Ideally, I want a HOT CAM Fast Burn 385 with some kind of aftermarket F.I. or the GM Ram Jet setup, but it's just not in the budget in the near future.

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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post07-12-2004 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
The L98's were only available with aluminum heads in corvettes - all F-Bodies had iron heads (but it's easy enough to swap heads if need be). Fuel lines: The F-body has them on the correct side to work more-easily with the Fiero setup... corvette motors generally have to be swapped to F-body fuel lines.

The major differences in years had to do with the engine management system (Speed Density vs. MAF) - here's a good topic to get familiar with that stuff: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20030819-2-033094.html

And a couple more topics that will likely interest you if you haven't already seen them:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-014783.html
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20040223-2-037222.html

BTW: I picked up an '89 TPI (MAF-controlled) for $1k with all accessories, wiring, & ECM (and had the whole car, a Firebird Formula 350, offered to me for $1800). https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20030819-1-026855.html

Oh yeah - something else to look out for on L98's... double check the casting on the block to verify that it isn't a 305! Here's a great reference page for engine specs & models: http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

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[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 07-12-2004).]

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-12-2004 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
Thanks! I read your thread where you got your engine, and the warning about the 305 in my search.
Also, don't you have to use speed density on a Fiero due to lack of clearance for a MAF? Or will a MAF fit?
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87GTSleeper
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Report this Post07-12-2004 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GTSleeperSend a Private Message to 87GTSleeperDirect Link to This Post
Good stuff from MinnGreen.

I am doing the L98 TPI swap right now. Mine is the aluminum head Corvette. Some things of note:

The fuel rails from the Corvette engine would interfere with the strut tower so I switched to F-Body TPI rails, with the Corvette injectors, for a much better placement of the fuel lines. I am running no emissions on mine so I can't say much about that.

I also found out that a Painless TPI wiring harness does not fit the Corvette computer.

Most everything else is about the same as a regular F-Body TPI as far as the swap goes.

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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post07-12-2004 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Also, don't you have to use speed density on a Fiero due to lack of clearance for a MAF? Or will a MAF fit?

From what I understand Archie has used both - although creating a location for the MAF can certainly be a challenge Personally I'm hoping to find out some successful details about Archie's Intake swap: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/024804-15.html to make things easier in that department!

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-12-2004 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:


From what I understand Archie has used both - although creating a location for the MAF can certainly be a challenge Personally I'm hoping to find out some successful details about Archie's Intake swap: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/024804-15.html to make things easier in that department!

Yeah, I've been following that thread too.

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Formula88
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Report this Post07-21-2004 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87GTSleeper:

Good stuff from MinnGreen.

I am doing the L98 TPI swap right now. Mine is the aluminum head Corvette. Some things of note:

The fuel rails from the Corvette engine would interfere with the strut tower so I switched to F-Body TPI rails, with the Corvette injectors, for a much better placement of the fuel lines. I am running no emissions on mine so I can't say much about that.

I also found out that a Painless TPI wiring harness does not fit the Corvette computer.

Most everything else is about the same as a regular F-Body TPI as far as the swap goes.

That sounds like the best bet would be to use an F-body L98, and then swap on aluminum heads. That or swap TPI & ECM, etc. from the Vette. Hmmm. More to think about - and a bump.

A TPI LM1 is starting to look good, but I'd really rather not buy a crate motor unless I go ahead and get a ZZ4, etc. But then we're back to $$$.

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Dave Gunsul
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Report this Post07-21-2004 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave GunsulSend a Private Message to Dave GunsulDirect Link to This Post
It's very interesting that you have posted thi topic and almost scarey as well because i have been thinking along these same exact lines for a while now.
I am very impressed with the LT1 in a Fiero but i too would rather not notch or have the frame notched. One of the things that makes the LT1 a nice motor in a Fiero is the roller cam which revs up much nicer then a similar flat hyd. would. The L98 is a logical alternative because you get the roller cam and don't need to notch the frame. There's also something that appeals to me about using an engine that was designed in the 80s in the Fiero, also made in the 80's, too.
Thing about the L98 is that the original TPI injection was really designed for the 305 which means that it starts to run out of breath in the upper rpms unless you add some aftermarket parts and/or porting. In fact, the TPI runs out of breath in pretty much the same areas as the Fieros V6 does. THe TPI was designed for low end torque, sound familiar? The TPI, unlike the original Fiero intakes, has a huge ammount of aftermarket support though thanks to all the F-body and Vettes that they came in so their short comings can be easily overcome. There are siamesed runners, bigger throttle bodies, ported lower intakes, headers, and much more available for these motors that can really add power to the L98. I'd suggest adding the runners, bigger t-body, headers, and an adjustable regulator to your set up. This will wake your L98 up in the upper rpms which you'll hit easily with any of Fieros low geared manual trannies. Interesting side note; according to SLP, an adjustable fuel pressure regulator can add power on a completely stock engine. My big point here is that the L98 can easily be brought up to and past the LT1s stock power level with not to much work.

The head issue; The aluminum vette heads are easily obtained from many sources in the aftermarket so i wouldn't worry about trying to get an engine with them. Personally, i'd get a set seperately and then have some porting done on them which will also really add some nice power to the L98. Bowl porting followed by a good multi angle valve job on these can easily add 15 HP. Edelbrock also makes aluminum L98 heads which are stronger right out of the box then the stock vette aluminum heads would be.
There are also cams, roller rock arms, and even superchargers available for this engine.

In my personal opinion, the L98 is a better choice then an LM1. You would most likely be able to get an LM1 for less but it does not have the roller cam and, with the restrictive TPI intake on it the LM1 doesn't really make that 260HP that it's listed at. That 260 HP rating is made with headers and a good 4-barrel intake which are superior in flow to the stock TPI unit. If you add some of the things i talked about above, then you will easily hit that 260HP level with an LM1 but, without that stuff (headers, siamesed runners, bigger t-body), you'll probably be putting out about the same HP as a stock L98 with an LM1 so it makes sense to go for the roller cam engine in the first place. Obviously i have no hard evidence this is true but i did read that the LM1s HP figure was obtained with headers and a good intake so it makes sense that this is true if you think about it. Any Vette owner that's driven an L98 with a 6-speed can tell you after 4500 rpms the engines power starts falling off much in the same way the Fieros V6 does. This isn't as evident in the f-bodies because they were only offered with the autos when equipped with the L98. Someone will probably come in here and try to argue that there were some f-bodies that snuck out with a manual and an L98 but, according to GM, this was not available so please no flames on that one.

We're definitely thinking along the same lines.

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Report this Post07-21-2004 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
There is an L98 on ebay right now that claims to be a 'Vette with cast iron heads??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7911628198&category=33615&sspagename=WDVW

Not a bad deal though. I love the L98 and it is a great way to get into an SBC without spending too, too much.

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Dave Gunsul
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Report this Post07-21-2004 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dave GunsulSend a Private Message to Dave GunsulDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

There is an L98 on ebay right now that claims to be a 'Vette with cast iron heads??


The aluminum heads didn't become available until mid 86 so there are Vettes out there with iron heads on their L98s.

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California Kid
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Report this Post07-21-2004 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidDirect Link to This Post
L98's Suck !!!

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