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New GM 3900 240hp @ 5900 rpm, 245tq @ 2800 rpm by donk316
Started on: 07-15-2004 01:33 AM
Replies: 19
Last post by: Will on 07-16-2004 09:10 PM
donk316
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Report this Post07-15-2004 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for donk316Send a Private Message to donk316Direct Link to This Post
According to GM, the new Vortec 3900 V-6 is a close relative of the 3500 V-6 launched in the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu. The 3900 is the first GM overhead-valve (OHV) engine to utilize variable valve timing (VVT) and displacement on demand (DOD).

Engine size was increased 400 cc with DOD in mind. GM engineers felt that the larger displacement was needed to get optimal performance in the three cylinder mode.

To keep from having to cast a new block the larger bores in the 3900 are created by lowering the bore center on the block.

DOD works the same on the 3900 V-6 as it does on the 5300 V-8, though rather than alternating cylinders on each bank, the 3900 drops the left ban when in DOD mode.

The variable valve timing system uses and electronically-controlled, hydraulic gear-driven cam phaser that can alter the relationship of the camshaft from 15 degrees retard to 25 degrees advance (40 degrees overall) relative to the crankshaft.

By using VVT, GM engineers were able to eliminate the EGR valve and also found that maximum exhaust-valve opening helped to warm the exhaust catalyst quicker, improving cold start emissions.

The VVT also works in conjunction with an active manifold GM says that the variable intake manifold serves as a low speed torque enhancer giving the engine a broader torque curve.

A valve in the manifold creates a longer path for intake air at low speeds, enhancing combustion efficiency and torque output. At higher speed the valve opens creating a shorter air path for maximum power production.

The 3900 has GM's latest ECM currently available. The Motorola-based E67 has 32-bit processing power and 32 megabytes of Burst Flash memory, 32 kilobytes of external RAM and 36 kilobytes of internal RAM plus a high speed CAN bus to deliver the necessary power to run VVT and the active manifold.

The 3900 also has electronic throttle control that enhances the engines interface with DOD.

The 3900 will be built at GM's Tonawanda, N.Y., assembly plant.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_12_183/ai_111617012

http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?gmpt05.html


General MotorsThe largest of GM's expanding family of 60° V-6 engines, the 3900 achieves larger displacement via an increase in bore size to 99 mm from the 3500 V-6’s 94 mm — requiring the bore centers to be ofset by 1.5 mm. Michalski said the 3900’s increased displacement fits glove-in-hand with Displacement on Demand: "A bigger engine is better when you want to maximize the amount of time the engine spends in three-cylinder operation," he explained.
The LZ8 3900 will be the first GM overhead valve engine to use variable valve timing, and it will be GM’s first V-6 to use DOD. The 3900's variable valve timing is coupled with another important new feature: a dual-path, active intake manifold.

"The variable intake manifold is a significant low-speed torque 'enhancer' for the 3900. It gives the 3900 a broader torque curve that retains higher specific torque output across the engine speed range."
Dick Michalski, chief engineer for 60-degree OHV V-6 engines.
The new 3900 V-6 (LZ8) is a 3.9 liter, two-valves-per-cylinder OHV V-6 that is most closely related to the 3500 V-6 (LX9) launched for the 2004 model year Chevrolet Malibu. Its first application without DOD will be on the 2005 Pontiac G6 in late 2004. A version of the 3900 V6 featuring the DOD system will debut in 2005.
The 3900 is estimated to develop 240 hp at 5900 rpm and 245 lb-ft of torque at just 2800 rpm. Moreover, thanks to the 3900's torque-enhancing technologies, 90% of peak torque is available from 1800 rpm to 5800 rpm, enhancing the engine's driveability and performance "feel." According to Alan Hayman, manager-advanced concept group in GM Powertrain's Advanced Powertrain unit, a new 3-valve cylinder-head developed for GM's OHV engines could boost output to 270 hp.

he LH6 isn't the only engine that will receive the benefits of displacement-on-demand. We've already mentioned that Daimler-Chrysler's Hemi will be getting some form of DOD in the near future--but we don't have exact details of that yet. What we do know is that GM is coming out with a 3.9L V-6 (RPO code LZ8) which is scheduled to first appear in the 2005 Pontiac G6.

The "high value" 60-degree OHV V-6 will become the staple engine in vehicles which typically had the old 3100-, 3400- and more recent 3500-series engines (on which the LZ8 is based). Rated at 240hp at 5900 rpm and 245 lb.-ft. of torque at 2800 rpm, the 9.8:1 compression LZ8 will make 90 percent of its peak torque between 1800 and 5800 rpm. That compares very favorably with the venerable supercharged 3800 (RPO L67) which, in most iterations, makes 240hp at 5,200 rpm. What's more, the LZ8 does it with only 100cc more displacement, two valves per cylinder, pushrods and no supercharger.

Like the LH6, the LZ8 will have electronic throttle control and cylinder deactivation (running on three cylinders to the LH6's four), but will also throw into the mix variable valve timing and a variable intake manifold for dynamic runner tuning. Variable valve timing will be accomplished electronically by a gear-driven camshaft phaser capable of altering timing by as much as 40 degrees. As a happy coincidence, this feature will also allow the elimination of EGR control.

For the time being, the LZ8 will only be available in non-DOD form, but we've been assured that it will eventually appear. What's more, the LZ8 is designed to work in a rear-wheel drive configuration, which would pave the way for its use in a future base-model Camaro. If that occurs, the LZ8 would trump the '05 Mustang's base V-6 by nearly 40 horsepower while returning the same fuel economy.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0405phr_gmdod/
very bottom.

**borrowed from SappySE107 from 60degreev6.com**

Same power and performance as a 3.8SC but without a power adder and with lighter aluminum heads and a torque curve that puts a 4.9 to shame.

Whos first!?

------------------
Calgary - August 1, 2004 Fiero Fiesta
1984 Indy Fiero 3.4/3100 Hybrid NA and...
*ALL THROTTLE AND NO BOTTLE*
http://www.gmpcm.com/ Killer ECM/ PCM tuning software and information

[This message has been edited by donk316 (edited 07-15-2004).]

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rynelson85
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Report this Post07-15-2004 01:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rynelson85Send a Private Message to rynelson85Direct Link to This Post
except the L67 has more torque... and an aftermarket.
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86GT3.4DOHC
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Report this Post07-15-2004 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
Sorry, I only won the local lotto, not the mega millions, I cant afford one. But my local yard has a 3.8SC that im buying with the change out of my ashtray

God its late.....

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Report this Post07-15-2004 02:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eatoninsideSend a Private Message to eatoninsideDirect Link to This Post
This engine won't be available in the G6 until late April of 2005. I think it will be an '06 model year too. At least this is what GM has told all of us Pontiac dealers. The cool thing is they'll be offering this engine with a 6 speed manual transmission, wonder if that would fit in the Fiero?! It would be a while though before you'd be able to find one at a junkyard.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post07-15-2004 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
This is only the start of a lot of new engines from GM.

As for price over the next few year they will be built in great quanities and the price will fall quickly.


As for fit in a Fiero, it should not be a problem. I can remember when the first TPI small blacks came out and many thought you would not be able to modifiy let alone transplant into a Fiero.

You may need to do a few new thing to change motors but the new engines will great. The horsepower numbers you show are just base, they will only go up from there.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 07-15-2004).]

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Kohburn
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Report this Post07-15-2004 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KohburnSend a Private Message to KohburnDirect Link to This Post
combine a fiero with DOD - and mileage galore

by the time these are cheap the fieros will be starting to go historic

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Report this Post07-15-2004 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fformula88Send a Private Message to Fformula88Direct Link to This Post
Yet the Honduh guys want you to believe pushrods are dead. Turns out you don't need double overhead cam engines designed in Japan to hit 240 HP on a naturally aspirated V6 engine, or have variable valve timing.

This is a tremendous V6 engine. It has great weight characteristics, tons of power, and some nice technical advances. The 3 valver once it hits will be awesome! It will make the G6 worth buying regardless of what the car looks like, because it is sure to be a blast to drive (whoever, I am sure the G6 will look fine). Having one in a Fiero would be super, but man, the cash outlay for that swap would be huge! But if anyone wants to put one in my Fiero (free of charge of course, just for testing purposes) be my guest!

Bring it on GM, and keep them coming!

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Report this Post07-15-2004 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fformula88:

Yet the Honduh guys want you to believe pushrods are dead. Turns out you don't need double overhead cam engines designed in Japan to hit 240 HP on a naturally aspirated V6 engine, or have variable valve timing.

The 3900 has variable valve timing. It uses a cam phaser to advance or retard the cam rather than a VTEC style setup to increase lift at high rpms.

The Honduh setup switches over from low rpm to hi rpm settings at a specific rpm.
The GM setup can continuously vary the cam phasing throughout the rpm range - giving you the benifits of variable valve timing continuously rather than only when winding the engine out.

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Mad Max Motorsports
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Report this Post07-16-2004 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mad Max MotorsportsSend a Private Message to Mad Max MotorsportsDirect Link to This Post
I have seen this engine (3900), that variable manifold is very tall almost like a tunnal ram on old carbed V8's. It would not fit under a fiero deck lid. The new 6sp manual is a sweet unit called the F-40 from SAAB (some what similer to the SAAB F-35 5 sp). It is very compact and the Pontiac versions are going to have the same bellhousing pattern as current FWD GM products so it will bolt right up to a 2.8....3.4L or even a L67.

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'90 Trofeo "Interceptor XB"
'90 Olds Cutlass Cruiser S (Wife's)

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Report this Post07-16-2004 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mad Max Motorsports:

I have seen this engine (3900), that variable manifold is very tall almost like a tunnal ram on old carbed V8's. It would not fit under a fiero deck lid. The new 6sp manual is a sweet unit called the F-40 from SAAB (some what similer to the SAAB F-35 5 sp). It is very compact and the Pontiac versions are going to have the same bellhousing pattern as current FWD GM products so it will bolt right up to a 2.8....3.4L or even a L67.

thats what I wanted to hear I already have the money set a side for it. I saw the gear ratios but still don't know what mph each gear would give us.

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Report this Post07-16-2004 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eatoninsideSend a Private Message to eatoninsideDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mad Max Motorsports:

I have seen this engine (3900), that variable manifold is very tall almost like a tunnal ram on old carbed V8's. It would not fit under a fiero deck lid. The new 6sp manual is a sweet unit called the F-40 from SAAB (some what similer to the SAAB F-35 5 sp). It is very compact and the Pontiac versions are going to have the same bellhousing pattern as current FWD GM products so it will bolt right up to a 2.8....3.4L or even a L67.


If this thing wouldn't fit under a Fiero decklid, how do they expect to get it under the hood of a G6?

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Report this Post07-16-2004 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post
Getting the throttle by wire and all the other fancy electronics will be a bit of a task, but it should be a kick azz transplant.

As for an aftermarket, I don't think it will take too long for one to come about. I'm guessing CAI and chips will be the first things out for it, followed by headers and exhaust and such.

Mmmmmm.....6spd manual....

Heres a pic of the engine. It looks tall, but I think it will fit. Probably going to have to modify the decklid support beams a little, though. Least the alternator will be easy to change!

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Report this Post07-16-2004 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post

Fastback 86

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Looking at it now, making engine mounts for it should prove interesting. Also, the oil fill is on the wrong side (for us). I'm also concerned about how much that belt sticks out and goes all over the place, may run into some clearence issues there.
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Report this Post07-16-2004 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post

Fastback 86

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quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Looking at it now, making engine mounts for it should prove interesting. Also, the oil fill is on the wrong side (for us). I'm also concerned about how much that belt sticks out and goes all over the place, may run into some clearence issues there.

Hey, its even got the kind of thermostat housing we like! Cool. And those cast iron exhaust manifolds will definately have to go. I'm also now concerned about the AC compressor.

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Report this Post07-16-2004 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
so what would these produce for shifting points in speed?

from Will's old post.

code:

Here are the ratios:
Gear Ratio Split
1st 3.77
2nd 2.04 0.541
3rd 1.32 0.647
4th 0.95 0.720
5th 0.75 0.789
6th 0.62 0.827
FD 3.91


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Report this Post07-16-2004 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post
Ooooo 3.91:1 Final Drive ratio, and a 3.77:1 1st gear ratio . That'll make for some good launches.
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Will
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Report this Post07-16-2004 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
Not with a Northstar... Instant redline in 1st gear, then drop back to 3,000 RPM when shifting to 2nd.

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'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

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Report this Post07-16-2004 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback 86Send a Private Message to Fastback 86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Not with a Northstar... Instant redline in 1st gear, then drop back to 3,000 RPM when shifting to 2nd.

But with this 3900...? What do you think?

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Will
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Report this Post07-16-2004 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
I think that big a gap between 1st and 2nd will be pretty awkward with any engine, but it'll show up worse on a torquey engine that doesn't need that deep 1st to get the car moving.

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

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Will
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Report this Post07-16-2004 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post

Will

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quote
Originally posted by Mad Max Motorsports:
The new 6sp manual is a sweet unit called the F-40 from SAAB (some what similer to the SAAB F-35 5 sp). It is very compact and the Pontiac versions are going to have the same bellhousing pattern as current FWD GM products so it will bolt right up to a 2.8....3.4L or even a L67.

Or a Northstar. What do you know about this box? Who makes it? It's a dual layshaft design, so the Getrag 6 speed used in the SVT Focus and Mini Cooper is the first trans that comes to mind... but I don't know for sure. Saab calls it the F-40... I remember the service literature using some other designation...

------------------
'87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

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