Is this swap worth it?? i can get a 4.3 Vortec from a sonoma for 400 bucks, only has 100 miles on the motor. They bought the truck and swapped a 410 in right away. (price includes tranny)
what type of tranny would i need??
------------------ Lothurin
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04:03 AM
PFF
System Bot
FieroBUZZ Member
Posts: 3320 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2001
It will be a personal decision on this one. It involves much of the same work as a v-8 swap.
You use the Fiero tranny, but need an adapter plate as the bolt patterns are different. Once you add the cost of the swap bits, it may not seem so cheap.
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04:51 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Is this swap worth it?? i can get a 4.3 Vortec from a sonoma for 400 bucks, only has 100 miles on the motor. They bought the truck and swapped a 410 in right away. (price includes tranny)
what type of tranny would i need??
Actually that is a great deal on any engine let alone the 4.3.
Yes it costs just about as much to install as a SBC. However, you'll never touch a 100 mile SBC for $400.
If you decide not to buy the engine for your car, please let me know & I'll buy it for a little project I'm working on.
Archie
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08:43 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41135 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
I can tell you this, they look nice in the car and they go! We have two owners in toronto with 4.3L engine in their Fiero's. One is a member on Pennocks who goes by "vortecfiero", the other owner browses the forum once and awhile but doesn't post.
Here's Mtt's car (non PFF member)
------------------ 3400 in progress
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10:30 AM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Is this swap worth it?? i can get a 4.3 Vortec from a sonoma for 400 bucks, only has 100 miles on the motor. They bought the truck and swapped a 410 in right away. (price includes tranny)
what type of tranny would i need??
I don't know that much about the vortec version of this motor, but one of my (many) current projects is this early 4.3 mated to a 5 speed. The 4.3 is almost litterally a 350 with two cyl removed, so you'll use the same trans adaptor and many other bits as used for the SBC swap. I would have used parts from Archie had I not already had a Zumalt style kit laying around looking for a home. I assume you want to use carb? If so I believe there are manifolds available for the Vortec as well, but you will need a different distributor. the 85 and 86 trucks with 4.3 came with an HEI unit that can be easily converted to non-feedback (non computeer controled timing) opperation. My oil filter adapt (and I assume your Vortec) uses a different kit than the SBC but it's still widely available. Similar costs to the SBC swap, but if you get a deal, or have parts laying around, I think it will be a fun project. The water pump will sure be easier, and cheeper) that the SBC
Let us know how it goes
------------------ 86 SE350 x 4 speed with RSAD technology (Rapid Scenery Advancement Device) 86 SE2.8 x 4 speed (all-option restored) 88 coupe x 5 speed (future IMSA widebody 4.3L project) 85 SE2.8 x 4 speed very well optioned restoration project. 85 GT2.8 x auto needs everything but worth restoring 85 SE 5 speed Likely GT40 project (as if I need more)
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-15-2004).]
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11:10 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27103 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
I bought a 4.3 to do this exact swap.Because of strict smog laws, back in California, you couldnt swap out engines, 2.8 to a 4.3, because the 4.3 wasnt offered for the fiero. Now I dont know how it is. But I have a 4.3 I no longer need!
I'd go for the 4.3 since you can get a good deal on it.
[This message has been edited by Convertable Indy (edited 05-15-2004).]
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11:23 AM
Lothurin Member
Posts: 306 From: North Dakota Registered: May 2004
What kind of HP are we talking about with a Vortec?
The 4.3L engines had between 190hp and 210hp depending on year of the engine. Early 90's had 190hp and the Vortec version was 200-210hp. Many S-10 folks have gotten in the 250-270hp range with mods and over 300hp with forced induction. The nice thing is many SBC parts will fit the 4.3L like pistons and rods. There is also a decent aftermarket of intakes, TB's, cams, etc so you have some flexability on matching mods. You would use Archies adapter plate and his flywheel.
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03:25 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
The 4.3L engines had between 190hp and 210hp depending on year of the engine. Early 90's had 190hp and the Vortec version was 200-210hp. Many S-10 folks have gotten in the 250-270hp range with mods and over 300hp with forced induction. The nice thing is many SBC parts will fit the 4.3L like pistons and rods. There is also a decent aftermarket of intakes, TB's, cams, etc so you have some flexability on matching mods. You would use Archies adapter plate and his flywheel.
Pistons, rocker arms, pushrods, lifters, oil pump, water pump, and a few other parts do interchange, but the rods are different than the sbc. The length is the same, as well as the small end dimentions, but when Chev went to an even fire configuration in the 4.3 it became necessary to make the big end of the rod narrower with offset. Milloden and ARP do make good rod bolts for the 4.3 however which, along with a good re-con job makes them good for well over 300HP. Cams are a bit more of a challenge that it first appears. Wile lots of cams are available, most are either torque/RV grinds or all out race cams. I finally found a special order cam made by Crower that I'll be using in my IMSA project however. The specs on it are 226/232 duration (@.050) and .474/.484 lift with 108 degree centers. part # is 03350 With mild porting, stanless valves and decent springs/retainers on the stock heads, the above cam, and a 600 carb on an Edelbrock manifold one would expect to see close to 300 HP.
Russ
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05:56 PM
Liquid-Reality Member
Posts: 2031 From: Fredericktown, MO Registered: Aug 2003
There is a two part story in the hot Rod magazine about a build-up of a 4.3 and they got over 300 hp out of it using machined 350 rods and pistons and the second story had to do with the super charging of the motor and they got over 500hp out of it. I am thinking this is a great way to do a swap for my fiero. I might be able to get the issue # and dates for those who are interested.
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06:06 PM
Phil86SE Member
Posts: 1476 From: Kamloops, B.C., Canada Registered: Mar 2003
If the 4.3 is such a good motor then and if the swap is roughly as difficult as the 350 then why do so few ppl do the swap?
thanks eh
-Phil
The 4.3 has some advantages over the SBC, Gas milage not being the least of them. The size fits comfortably in the Fiero and the frame rails need not be touched. a V-8 Swap invariably requires some cutting to both the frame and the K-member. The weight distribution remains pretty close to stock as well which means you do not need to beef-up your suspension.
And best of all, a turbo 4.3 will kick the crap out of a V-8. You have room to add it, with a V-8 there is no room for turbos or superchargers.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-05-2004).]
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08:11 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
If the 4.3 is such a good motor then and if the swap is roughly as difficult as the 350 then why do so few ppl do the swap?
thanks eh
-Phil
Because it also costs ~ the same as the 350. In fact it may end up slightly more to do the 4.3 because some of the parts are more expensive (manifolds, cams, etc). The reason I'm doing one is because I've already done the 350 swap in my 86SE and plus it just seems "correct" to have a 4.3 in the IMSA project, even though mine will be mounted transverse. The engineering and creating is a large part of the enjoyment for me, so doing something new and different really gets my juices flowing.
Russ
BTW Toddster. bring on your turbo 4.3 anytime. My 425HP 377 V-8 will eat you for lunch and have plenty of room for desert
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09:34 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
The 4.3 has some advantages over the SBC, Gas milage not being the least of them.
And best of all, a turbo 4.3 will kick the crap out of a V-8.
What have you been smoking??? The 4.3 is a gas hog, I know, I own one. If the 4.3 is a chopped SBC (which it is), just how the hell do you figure it's going to be faster that a SBC that has two more cyclinders, induction systems matched of course. There's plenty of room to package twin turbo's on the SBC in the Fiero, it's just that no one has ever had a reason to do so.
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11:01 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
6 pressurized cylinders has a greater volumetric capacity than 8 normally aspirated cylinders. Hence, more power. Pretty straight forward math.
Hey......I'm not stupid !!! Just remember for every built 6 out there, there's a built SBC that will clean it's clock, and done cheaper by the way.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing a 4.3 swap, there are some good reasons to do it, but it's not a "Power King" compared to the SBC considering they're about the same price to swap in.
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06:58 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing a 4.3 swap, there are some good reasons to do it, but it's not a "Power King" compared to the SBC considering they're about the same price to swap in.
Can't argue with that. But I had a SBC Fiero and the compromises (to me anyway) were not worth the extra ponies. I also have a friend locally who has had nothing but grief with his SBC Fiero (professionally installed -no names).
I am neither promoting nor dismissing ANY engine swap. It's all a matter of personal taste and ultimate performance goals. I love them all and I have tried them all except for the Northstar which I am slating to do this summer. I am just pointing out that every engine swap has it's pros and cons. The 4.3 certainly eats more fuel than a 60 degree six or a 3800. But at 12-16 miles to the gallon you can watch your fuel gauge of your SBC go from F to E driving around the block. I had cooling problems at idle despite a high flow water pump, 4-core radiator, two fans, a 195 stat, and high pressure caps. Also, I never actually used the full potential of the engine.
An SBC is a nice looking swap. IF done right it is a great sounding engine and fun to drive. And you are not considered a Pariah when you bring your Fiero to a Muscle Car event as long as there is a 350 in it.
The 4.3 has less power but still has more than most Fiero owners will ever need, has mildly better milage, is an easier fit for the car, and has outstanding power potential if you want more ponies.
And if this guy can get a new 4.3 for $400 then I say GRAB IT!
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 06-06-2004).]
Yep, they have torque pretty well covered, my Blazer Xtreme gets out of the hole pretty nicely.
One thing about the 4.3 is that if you're going to make a performance engine out of it, you have to ditch the intake right off the bat. They even have an air diverter in the throttle body (which is a restriction), so that the rear cyclinders don't run leak, and burn the pistons. I did some checking around, because some say it's worth a few horses just to get ride of that big blob of metal on the throttle plate. Still haven't figured out why GM placed the inlet to the intake so far toward the front of the engine???
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12:37 PM
California Kid Member
Posts: 9541 From: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan Registered: Jul 2001
Originally posted by Toddster: But at 12-16 miles to the gallon you can watch your fuel gauge of your SBC go from F to E driving around the block. I had cooling problems at idle despite a high flow water pump, 4-core radiator, two fans, a 195 stat, and high pressure caps. Also, I never actually used the full potential of the engine.
No flame, but I'm guessing you had a carb'd engine due to the poor mpg, my FI Engine delivers 21mpg avg. (mostly with my foot in it). As far as the other problems you mention, it just a simple case of selecting the right parts to make the system work for you. The biggest thing anyone will face when they go over 400hp with equal torque, is the trans, and half-shafts.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 06-06-2004).]
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12:58 PM
Phil86SE Member
Posts: 1476 From: Kamloops, B.C., Canada Registered: Mar 2003
Can't argue with that. But I had a SBC Fiero and the compromises (to me anyway) were not worth the extra ponies. I also have a friend locally who has had nothing but grief with his SBC Fiero (professionally installed -no names).
I am neither promoting nor dismissing ANY engine swap. It's all a matter of personal taste and ultimate performance goals. I love them all and I have tried them all except for the Northstar which I am slating to do this summer. I am just pointing out that every engine swap has it's pros and cons. The 4.3 certainly eats more fuel than a 60 degree six or a 3800. But at 12-16 miles to the gallon you can watch your fuel gauge of your SBC go from F to E driving around the block. I had cooling problems at idle despite a high flow water pump, 4-core radiator, two fans, a 195 stat, and high pressure caps. Also, I never actually used the full potential of the engine.
The sbc swaps that puzzle me are the ones installed stock from the bone yard or from a guys 305 that was in his 75 Comonero or whatever. If you're swaping in a sbc I would think it should be because you want an ultimate HP Fiero and are willing and able to do it up right. If someone swaps in a 225HP sbc then yes it's most likely "not worth the extra ponies", but the first time you drive a properly built, high HP, sbc Fiero you'll know that... OHhhhh YAaaaa....... It was worth it all right . I only drive my "hot rod" on special days, so it's only aquired about 1000 miles (just turned over 1000 yesterday as a matter a fact), but I've had ZERO issues with the cars drivability. it ran a bit warm (210) in town at first, but with a couple minor mods it now runs 180 all day long under all conditions. The biggest problem with swaps, of all engine types, is that they tend to be underfunded right from the beginning. A guy finds a used [killer dog rat blaster] engine for a great price but then doesn't stop to concider just how much it will cost to actually get that thing into a car and running right. The cost of the engine is a very small proportion of any engine swap, even if it's "a bolt in" . One more point I might make it that if a person is worried about gas milage......... you most likely can't afford to do the swap correctly anyway . It's just SO much fun to re-create a vehicle with the personality of your choice, be it a smooth running daily driver created a bit unique, a high winding road racer, or a brute horsepower adrenalin machine. They're all fun, each in there own way,........ so I want at least one of each
------------------ 86 SE350 x 4 speed with RSAD technology (Rapid Scenery Advancement Device) 86 SE2.8 x 4 speed (all-option restored) 88 coupe x 5 speed (future IMSA widebody 4.3L project) 85 SE2.8 x 4 speed very well optioned restoration project. 85 GT2.8 x auto needs everything but worth restoring 85 SE 5 speed Likely GT40 project (as if I need more)
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-06-2004).]
Originally posted by Toddster: And best of all, a turbo 4.3 will kick the crap out of a V-8. You have room to add it, with a V-8 there is no room for turbos or superchargers.
