I have the 98 GTP 3800 sc on the 86 GT cradle and i am using WCF engine mounts. Does anyone know the length that the axles have to be to work or how to figure it out correctly? Thanks
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10:37 PM
PFF
System Bot
3800FORMULAGT Member
Posts: 89 From: Grapevine, Tx 76051 Registered: Feb 2004
i believe a stock left auto fiero axle will work, and then a stock 3800sc left shaft with a manual cv joint attached to one of the ends should work, thats what i have been told to do, but i havnt done it yet.
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11:02 PM
May 13th, 2004
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10649 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
OK I am going to assume that you are useing the 4T65EHD tranny from the 98 GTP, because the stock Fiero axles and tranny will bolt right up to the 3800SC with no need to ask about the axel lengths I am not sure why anyone would use stock auto Fiero axles, but I would not. They are much smaller than the maual axles. There is no part of the Fiero auto axles that you can use. But you can use the stock Fiero manual axle from the driver side on the driver side of your 4T65E. You just need to takee the "Tripot" side of the Fiero axle off the shaft and put the 4T65E "Tripot" on it. That way the stock 98 inner CV "Tripot" and Fiero axle and outer CV are used on the driver side. You may have to cut new snap ring grooves into the axle shaft ends to bring the two CV's closer together, the shaft may be just a little long. Then grind off the extra .25" from the ends of the shaft. The right side or the pass side is a little more complex. Look for a Pontiac 6000 and take the driver side axle. Take off the two CV's and only use the shaft. Use the outer manual CV and the inner "Tripot" CV from the 98 4t65E. Cut the new snapring grooves as in the driver side and assemble. The BEST way to do it to be safe is to get the engine in the car first. Mount the engine properly and only have the dissasembled 4T65E inner Tipots in the tranny. Take the outer Fiero manual CV's and mount them in the bearing cariers. Take the shaft and put it in the tripot and CV with out the snaprings. Look in the CV's to see how much room you have inside the tripot by moving the shaft in and out of the CV's. You should be able to tell just how long of saft you need this way. If you cant move th shaft in or out of the CV's then the shaft is to long. If the shaft moves so much that it falls out of the inner or outer CV then the shaft is to short. You can also take off the spring from the strut and move the wheel up and down to see how much room you have at the ends of the wheel travle. And you should try to put all the snap rings in and do the whole prosses over just to make sure you got it right. I gave you a starting place not an exact formula, You may have to buy more than one axle to find one that fits your car. But dont use the small diam axles or you will brake it for sure .
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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6
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02:32 AM
PURPLE REIGN Member
Posts: 4080 From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold Registered: Sep 2002
OK I am going to assume that you are useing the 4T65EHD tranny from the 98 GTP, because the stock Fiero axles and tranny will bolt right up to the 3800SC with no need to ask about the axel lengths I am not sure why anyone would use stock auto Fiero axles, but I would not. They are much smaller than the maual axles. There is no part of the Fiero auto axles that you can use. But you can use the stock Fiero manual axle from the driver side on the driver side of your 4T65E. You just need to takee the "Tripot" side of the Fiero axle off the shaft and put the 4T65E "Tripot" on it. That way the stock 98 inner CV "Tripot" and Fiero axle and outer CV are used on the driver side. You may have to cut new snap ring grooves into the axle shaft ends to bring the two CV's closer together, the shaft may be just a little long. Then grind off the extra .25" from the ends of the shaft. The right side or the pass side is a little more complex. Look for a Pontiac 6000 and take the driver side axle. Take off the two CV's and only use the shaft. Use the outer manual CV and the inner "Tripot" CV from the 98 4t65E. Cut the new snapring grooves as in the driver side and assemble. The BEST way to do it to be safe is to get the engine in the car first. Mount the engine properly and only have the dissasembled 4T65E inner Tipots in the tranny. Take the outer Fiero manual CV's and mount them in the bearing cariers. Take the shaft and put it in the tripot and CV with out the snaprings. Look in the CV's to see how much room you have inside the tripot by moving the shaft in and out of the CV's. You should be able to tell just how long of saft you need this way. If you cant move th shaft in or out of the CV's then the shaft is to long. If the shaft moves so much that it falls out of the inner or outer CV then the shaft is to short. You can also take off the spring from the strut and move the wheel up and down to see how much room you have at the ends of the wheel travle. And you should try to put all the snap rings in and do the whole prosses over just to make sure you got it right. I gave you a starting place not an exact formula, You may have to buy more than one axle to find one that fits your car. But dont use the small diam axles or you will brake it for sure .
Sorry ............but that's much more complicated than it needs to be.
1) Left side..............use stock Fiero auto trans axle.
2) consists of 4 items. A) 4t65e Inner tripod. B) 4t65e left SHAFT section C) outer joint cage & balls from 4t65e D) outer C.V. housing from Fiero. Now assemble !!!! some may need the shaft end shortened on the right side.
I've been using this setup on my built up motor with no problems.
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09:22 AM
Fieroking Member
Posts: 2150 From: Coeur D Alene Idaho USA Registered: Jun 2002
Right side? How is that eaier than useing the manual Fiero outer CV? It is easier to just use the manual outer CV and slide the axle into it, rather than take apart the cage and balls of an auto. With the outer CV from a Manual Fiero the cage ball assembly is already "mated" broke in. If you disturbe the ball cage outer assem by putting in different balls and center into the outer CV you will run the risk of early failer?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-13-2004).]
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12:38 PM
PURPLE REIGN Member
Posts: 4080 From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold Registered: Sep 2002
Right side? How is that eaier than useing the manual Fiero outer CV? It is easier to just use the manual outer CV and slide the axle into it, rather than take apart the cage and balls of an auto. With the outer CV from a Manual Fiero the cage ball assembly is already "mated" broke in. If you disturbe the ball cage outer assem by putting in different balls and center into the outer CV you will run the risk of early failer?
There isnt any risk of early failure by disassembling the joint.
I tried using a Fiero manual outer and it was too small for the shaft to go into. Possibly cause my driveline is from a Buick Riviera which I was told has a thicker axle shaft with the 4T65e H.D. trans. ( This may be different on the Pontiac's. )
Plus you get to use the Buick axle if you switch the inner parts into the Fiero housing
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03:36 PM
pollock Member
Posts: 424 From: denton, texas, usa Registered: Sep 1999
Sorry ............but that's much more complicated than it needs to be.
1) Left side..............use stock Fiero auto trans axle.
2) consists of 4 items. A) 4t65e Inner tripod. B) 4t65e left SHAFT section C) outer joint cage & balls from 4t65e D) outer C.V. housing from Fiero. Now assemble !!!! some may need the shaft end shortened on the right side.
I've been using this setup on my built up motor with no problems.
Now, what car is this right shaft from, or are they all the same? I would imagine that they are different lengths from car to car.
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01:39 AM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10649 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
PURPLE REIGN maybe you misunderstood me? Or maybe I am misunderstanding you? The manual Fiero outer CV's are to small but the Fiero auto outer CV's will work if you take out the cage, balls, and inner race and then put in the the inner balls, cage, and inner race from the 4T65HD? The outer race of the auto and manual Fieros are the same. So why the auto outer CV and not the manual? Is it the inner race in the Fiero CV that is to small?
pollock that was a good one
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03:00 AM
May 16th, 2004
gangrenefiero Member
Posts: 283 From: Aiken, South Carolina USA Registered: Aug 2001
Guys i am confused. I took apart the axles and then i tried to put the 3800s tripot on the end of the fiero axle and i noticed they dont match up...i guess i could have seen that if i would have looked first. What do i do about the boot, i cant use the fieros because it is not big enough to fit over the 3800 tripot and i can not use the 3800s because it is not small enough to close over the smaller fiero axle. Thanks
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08:47 PM
May 17th, 2004
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10649 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
Like I said, Dont use the small Fiero axle. I think I know what Purple is talking about. The ONLY part of the Fiero axle assembly (inside CV tripot, axle, and out side CV) that you can use is the outer CV. You take the boot off the outer CV then unsnap the axle snapring and pull the axle out of the CV. You need to turn the ball cage sideways and work the balls out. Then take out the cage and inner race. What you have left is the outer race of the outer CV. This is the part that has the threads. This is the ONLY part of the Fiero axle you can use. But it is the same as a manual Fiero CV so it dont matter were you get it from. Then you put the inner race, ball cage and balls from the 4T65HD into the outer Fiero CV's outer race and put the axle, boot and inner tripot CV from the 4T65HD on the mixmatched outer Fiero CV.
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03:22 AM
PURPLE REIGN Member
Posts: 4080 From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold Registered: Sep 2002
Like I said, Dont use the small Fiero axle. I think I know what Purple is talking about. The ONLY part of the Fiero axle assembly (inside CV tripot, axle, and out side CV) that you can use is the outer CV. You take the boot off the outer CV then unsnap the axle snapring and pull the axle out of the CV. You need to turn the ball cage sideways and work the balls out. Then take out the cage and inner race. What you have left is the outer race of the outer CV. This is the part that has the threads. This is the ONLY part of the Fiero axle you can use. But it is the same as a manual Fiero CV so it dont matter were you get it from. Then you put the inner race, ball cage and balls from the 4T65HD into the outer Fiero CV's outer race and put the axle, boot and inner tripot CV from the 4T65HD on the mixmatched outer Fiero CV.
CORRECT ................another version of saying it
remember for correct axle SHAFT length I used the left side SHAFT front the 4T65e H.D.
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