Just an FYI to all those with the WCF motor mounts installed on your 3800's mine blew up!

I have stock tranny mounts and my front WCF motor mount could not hold up to the same force that the stock mounts could and it formed a nice crack on the part of the mount that bolts to the motor.

I am doing my Firebird dash swap along with anything else on this car that I can unbolt and replace when I noticed this mount was cracked in half!

Now I know why my motor had shifted 3 inches, what I did to fix it was to use a stock GTP motor mount (Metal motor side) mixed with a 87 fiero motor mount (ruber side) bolted to my 88 cradle and it works great!

Cost me about $10 in parts from the local scrap yard.

Anyway just as a warning if you have WCF mounts on your setup you may want to check them out as this could happen to you!

I will try to post a picture later for those who want to see it.

Oh ya for those who want to know this mount had about 3000 miles on it of mild driving to work and back!!!!

Axcessitall
1986 1/2 Fiero GT 3800 Series II Supercharged, 5 speed Getrag, Firebird dash in progress.

Pics please.

I am also intersted in seeing how you mixed the GTP mount with a stock rubber mount.

A 5 speed 3800sc doing "mild driving"?! Hehehe.

Edit: Not the time or place for these comments.

[This message has been edited by stimpy (edited 04-14-2004).]

Of course it broke, You cannot mix poly and rubber mounts and expect the poly mount, or a part of that particular mount to not break.

Your rubber mounts allow more flex than the poly mount, something has got to break in that poly mount area.

Not all the blame can be placed on WCF here.

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 04-11-2004).]

quote Originally posted by jelly2m8: Of course it broke, You cannot mix poly and rubber mounts and expect the poly mount, or a part of that particular mount to not break. Your rubber mounts allow more flex than the poly mount, something has got to break in that poly mount area. Not all the blame can be placed on WCF here.

Not taking sides, I have no experience with the quality, or lack of, of the WCF parts but mixing poly and rubber mounts is not a good idea (for the reasons stated above).

Lets see some pics of your solution, sounds like a good alternative.

Yes, I would be very interested in seeing not only our engine mount but the condition of the stock tranny mounts.

Obviously something shifted hard. The engine should be torqueing front to back not to the side.

If a 2.8 can pull a stock tranny mount apart, why do you think that a supercharged 3800 wouldn't do it all the more easier?

Are you running a dogbone?

May the "where will the end up" bet start at one week... Do I hear one week...

I hear one week from the man with the Fiero...

Do I hear two...

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: May the "where will the end up" bet start at one week... Do I hear one week... I hear one week from the man with the Fiero... Do I hear two...

nope.......the avg lifespan of a downward spiraling thread involving WCF or Archie is about a week but considering the recent history of posts about mounts.........put me down for 3 days.......

-T

why ohh why ohhh why must people bash companys that are trying to PROMOTE FIEROS??? Now i agree why there are people afraid to start new companys.... if they have one "bad" product there is someone who is going to bash them and tell everyone how "bad" of a company they are because "all" of thier products are "bad" because one of thier products failed.... even if its the customers fault.... ohhhhhh wait im sorry its "never" the customers fault....

Just my .02
wriott <------ someone who has NEVER had ANY "bad" products from WCF

I am waiting for the pics of the "exploded ! " "blew up ! " mount. I have seen the mounts WC Fiero does and I think they are great. It seems to me just from the post, that it ws operator error.

I have the poly mounts on both my 3800,3.4&2.8 applications, all cars are driven hard and never one prob with WCF products

Ditto. The parts have always been top notch. The only problem I have ever had with WCF was deliver time at times. They seem to get busy and things fall through the cracks, but I have always (eventually) been taken care of and always with top quality parts. Virtually everyone I deal with regarding Fiero parts has been good to me (Rodney Dickman, Fiero Store, ACE, WCF, etc). ACE is the only company that went belly up that I ordered and fortunately for me, I got my swap finish in time to get the final stuff I needed from him to make everything work right. Kostas didn't fair so well on his ACE swap.

------------------

www.fieroexcitement.com
Rate me if I've been helpful! :)

Well the bottom line is, wether or not they are selling something for Ferrari's or Fiero's, if it's a poor quality product than it needs to be said. People are going to express their opinion on crappy parts, even if that means a company that is basically in "business" because of Fieros. I have not dealt with WCF therefore I have no bad or good to say regards to their parts. If I do deal with them and find the parts good OR bad I will let the forum know. That's the way it is...

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/ferrari_momo

quote Originally posted by wriott: why ohh why ohhh why must people bash companys that are trying to PROMOTE FIEROS??? Now i agree why there are people afraid to start new companys.... if they have one "bad" product there is someone who is going to bash them and tell everyone how "bad" of a company they are because "all" of thier products are "bad" because one of thier products failed.... even if its the customers fault.... ohhhhhh wait im sorry its "never" the customers fault.... Just my .02 wriott <------ someone who has NEVER had ANY "bad" products from WCF

------------------
'87GT auto MODS!, 3" Drop on 17's, boosted 3800 *soon*
'95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD Turbo 5-spd
'90 Plymouth Laser RS FWD Turbo 5-spd

Alright, I'm sick of people bashing each other on here!! Especially when the people that are being bashed are companies that try to make our cars better. People are afraid to start new Fiero oriented companies because of the bashing that goes on here. As some of you may know, I run and own www.remotestartdepot.com There has been a few times that I have shipped a defective remote start. It happens. Not everyone makes 100% perfect products every time. The only thing you can do is replace the defective product. I don't bash my compitition. I just make sure that I offer a top notch product at a top notch price with top notch service to back it up. So please, please, please, lets stop the flame wars and get back to what we love!!!

Kris

------------------

Percentages people. How many motor mounts have been sold by WCF to how many have failed?
If it's like 1 out of a few hundred then that's a pretty darn good quality percentage don't you think?
I have gone and purchased GM products and had two in a row fail right out of the box, so lets all be carefull and know all the facts before you start jumping all over someone about a bad part.
shop_rat45 is correct. There is no 100% non fail rate with car parts. Sometime somewhere at somepoint one out of so many will fail for some reason. Some due to an undetected defect or maybe due to missuse or an incorrect/improper install, etc.
If however the percentage of fail rate per piece is very high, then you have a real issue.

Just wanted to add that I didn't think axcessitall was bashing anyone, and was merely pointing out to those who might think of coming on here thinking that he was doing so or "assuming" that WCF's product were bad to first look at the percentage of failures they have and look at all the facts before possibly passing judgement against them.

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 04-13-2004).]

My god this has become a flame!

First off I have been out for a few days sick so I did not get a chance to post the photos but I will make a point of it tonight.

However I would like to make a few things clear.

#1. I have sent WCF about $2000 is orders and the ONLY parts I have ever had problems with have been the mounts, I did have to bug them a few times to ship the items but it did not bother me.

#2. I asked WCF about the best mount setup for daily driving and they told me that Poly motor with Rubber Tranny mounts would be fine.

#3. I am not trying to bash anyone. All I am saying is that if they or anyone for that matter has this setup they should inspect it for possible issues, even GM who spends millions of dollars to research the design of new parts has recalls because once the product gets into the field things can happen.

#4. Also I support more Fiero companies (Rodney Dickman, FieroStore, HELD and WCF) then most of the people who jump in and talk trash on this forum combined (NOTICE, I said TRASH TALKERS. This is a great FORUM with MANY NON TRASH TALKERS). Do you see me putting posts out telling people not to bring issue to the foreground, no all I was doing was raising a possible safety issue.

#5. I have been on this forum for the entire 5 years of it's life and I have posted only a few topics for issues that I had with my 3800 and I was able to work around all of them with the help of my fellow Fiero drivers on Fiero.nl and the one time I post a warning people assume that I just did it to "BASH" a Fiero company?

I think it is time that we all take a moment to be thankful for what we have (Many great Fiero stores) but in the same breath no fear talking openly about issues to help ensure the long life of these treasured and scarce stores.

And for those who talk about operator error all I have to say is that if a guy can put a 3800 in a fiero and do an entire suspension swap then top it off with a firebird interior and paint and the ONLY problem he has is with one small item then I would say JOB WELL DONE NO MATTER WHO'S FAULT IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE!

Maybe I need to start a thread on the build up of my car so I can get a little credit here geeze.
Axcessitall

buildup threads are good, but make sure it has lots and lots of pictures.. we like picutres.. =]

axcessitall, I for one didn't take it as you where flaming anyone. Thanks for the warning.

------------------

quote Originally posted by MiZer: buildup threads are good, but make sure it has lots and lots of pictures.. we like picutres.. =]

Well, that might depend on the color of the Fiero Lots of pics of lime green ones for example seem to greatly upset some of those trash talkers

axcessitall, can you come and help do a 3800 swap in one of ours?

Steve

quote Originally posted by wriott: why ohh why ohhh why must people bash companys that are trying to PROMOTE FIEROS???

quote Originally posted by shop_rat45: Alright, I'm sick of people bashing each other on here!! Especially when the people that are being bashed are companies that try to make our cars better.

You guys are missing a small detail... the last time a questionable motor mount was mentioned - WCF asked why it was never brought to their attention (5th post down on the 2nd page). So here we have a mount failure (for whatever reason) - and it is being brought to their attention (in a civil manner none-the-less) and yet a number of WCF-supporters are jumping on him for reporting this <shakes head> you can't have it both ways! Also note that this topic was not starting as a flame - yet people are crying foul even before all the info is posted.

quote Originally posted by axcessitall: Maybe I need to start a thread on the build up of my car so I can get a little credit here geeze. Axcessitall

That certainly wouldn't hurt and we love build-up threads (as long as you've got pics too ).

------------------

Looking for Fiero posters?

[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 04-13-2004).]

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: You guys are missing a small detail... the last time a questionable motor mount was mentioned - WCF asked why it was never brought to their attention (5th post down on the 2nd page). So here we have a mount failure (for whatever reason) - and it is being brought to their attention (in a civil manner none-the-less) and yet a number of WCF-supporters are jumping on him for reporting this <shakes head> you can't have it both ways! Also note that this topic was not starting as a flame - yet people are crying foul even before all the info is posted.

I agree... I could be wrong, but I just think the whole delivery of the post is what got everyone prompted... To read the thread title, then read the start of the thread, is what got everyone riled... It's like going on a job interview... *You* know what you are trying to promote, and you know how you are trying to promote it... It's just that the person interviewing you reads you totally the wrong way, and that keeps you from getting hired... I think that had a bunch to do with it...

I think *maybe* if it was worded a bit different, then it would have not busted out into this... But to see the topic title "WCF mount exploded"... You KNOW from the history of this board that people reading topics like that are bound to jump into it because they know that it is going to be a big bashing topic... Where if it were worded something different... say... "3800 mount problems", then in the thread itself explain what happend, that may have, or may not have gotten the thread to the extent of where it is now...

I know it's the same way for defects in the Telecomm business, too... I have been out on a couple PBX installs where there has been a bad card in the system, shipped directly from the manufacturer... Does that mean that my company that charged you over $5k for that phone system provided you with a bad product, and therefor they should be shuned for it? Or is it simply a setback with a problem from the manufacturer? Or the best one... What about the DC-10 that looses part of it's tailwing and crashes... Even though something like that, the manufacturer comes out later and says there was a boo-boo that we didn't get to in time, everyone still holds ACME Airlines responsible because they were using the thing...

That's just my two interestingly interesting, yet confusing 2 cents worth!

--- Goobher!

I don't believe that anyone here, save for Stimpy, was trying to bash WCF.

As for asking for something to be brought to our attention, I was actually meaning a phone call or perhaps an e-mail directly to us. That way we ask direct questions and get direct answers.

Right now, we don't know if theres any dogbones holding onto this 3800. I have no idea who this person is. I have no idea where this person is. So there is still no communication and still no closer to finding out if theres a problem. If there is a problem with quality, then the true bottomline is that it needs to be said to the vendor DIRECTLY.

I would not know who told him that rubber tranny mounts would be a good idea since the front tranny mount is usually the first to break loose. Obviously, whoever told him that has been proven wrong.

I would not say that speaking out on the Forum is a problem but its not always fair to the vendor since sometimes threads can be overlooked or not seen at all if theres a lot of activity. I had to go looking for this thread because I just happen to think about it before going home tonight. I hadn't seen any of the responses since my last post until now so I really wanted to make sure that no one is being penalized for speaking out. But what if I had not seen it at all? Nothing would have been done, nothing still has been done. All we have is a thread about an engine mount made of urethane "exploding." (What, a C4 plastique engine mount? It is a bit on the overly dramatic side...)

All it would take is a phone call or e-mail (310 305-4111 or sales@westcoastfiero.com) for this to be resolved since I can already tell y'all* what we are going to do. We'll ask for the broken one back. We'll send another one out on our nickel if you want. We'll look at the broken one since we are now aware of something going on and have yet to see even a picture of one. We'll look at the way it was built, we'll might ask more questions about how it was put in. We might post something on our website or make sure to let people know who are ordering them that it might not be a good idea in certain configurations.

Something can be done about it now with this mount.

Not much can be done if the problem is, say, a year old, leaking, hanging down and not even mentioned when Chris and I are seen at an event thrown by Songman in San Simeon LESS than a year ago...

*Songman's southern twang is fun to use every so often.

[This message has been edited by WKDFIRO (edited 04-14-2004).]

Not mentioning any names, but at least two people had posted recently that your mounts had a failure. Did either of them *call* you before they posted on the forum?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Not mentioning any names, but at least two people had posted recently that your mounts had a failure. Did either of them *call* you before they posted on the forum?

This is my question exactly... not just for this thread but for many threads here that openly bash a vendor for whats perceived to be failed parts. I'm not accusing axcessitall for bashing, its just that this particular thread is going to lay kindling on a bed of smoldering coals. As a heads up, I'm wondering if this failure came about due to the mount loosening after install. I've seen this type of thing happen many times before, just recently to the brake calipers on my 85GT. There are many aspects to concider here and to state that the part itself failed before analyzing every angle is tantamount to prematurely accusing a vendor of faulty manufacturing. All I'm saying is please exhaust all other avenues first before coming here to complain.

Why haven't pics of this "exploded" mount been posted yet?

------------------

Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 INTERCOOLED SUPERCHARGED
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.
History of Skitimes Car

I apologize for throwing my comment in at the beginning of the thread. That kind of passive-aggressive stuff is something I need to get out of my system. I've PM'd you Anthony.

And that's all I've got to say about that. [/gump]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Not mentioning any names, but at least two people had posted recently that your mounts had a failure. Did either of them *call* you before they posted on the forum?

Nope.
Its been frustrating.
Being called a Nazi at the time has been the running joke here at the shop though.

I'm still waiting to see what actually happened. Where's the pic?

Any pics of these busted mounts yet? I have a 3800 in my garage and I am working on the swap now. The spontaneous combustion of a motormount seems unlikely, but as a future customer, I would like to see WCF get the opportunity to evaluate the failure.

Please post a pic of the failed mount.

quote Originally posted by stimpy: I apologize for throwing my comment in at the beginning of the thread. That kind of passive-aggressive stuff is something I need to get out of my system. I've PM'd you Anthony. And that's all I've got to say about that. [/gump]

you're no fun since that anger management class.

This guy has only 3 posts. I wonder if this is just a bad joke. Like some one made a new user name just to flame? First he said "motor mount exploded!" then he said "the motor mount bew up" then he said it has formed "a nice crack" then he said the mount was"cracked in half!" now the engine sits "3 inches" from were it should be? What is it? If that engine is 3 inches out the tripots would have come out of one side and smashed the other side. The dog bone wont let it move that far unless it too is busted. Not to mention the damage the other mounts would have to have to let the engine go that far. I am not calling anyone a lier, I have not seen the car but the words used are eather exagerated or the car is a mechanical freak to live throu that with no other damage.

I would not have even replied to this thread if it were not for the strong words used in the first post and topic. Now the guy is not even posting on his own topic? If he does not have pics, at least give answers.

bump for answers.

Dont want to rub salt in wounds but I need to know cause I have a 3800SC to install and soon!!

[This message has been edited by DjDraggin (edited 04-15-2004).]

originally posted on 04-11-2004 10:22 AM

quote Originally posted by axcessitall: I will try to post a picture later for those who want to see it.

Yes please, we would all like to see the pics

Thanks

---------------------

Lime green glow in the dark riced up neoned Fieros rock!!
"Get in, buckle up and hang on!"

If you are doing a 3800SC coversion and are cocidering WCFiero mounts just get them they are good Dont let a story like this stop you from getting your hot rod on the road. No WCFiero is not perfect but they have done many mounts and few failed.

I have to hand it to Anthony at WCF to be excellent at customer service. He will definitely do right by his customers. He called my mechanic to work out issues with parts sent. I was told it was a part problem, but it was a matter of installation. He was ready to make another shift assembly, if needed. Just the fact he makes the first contact to request problems to be solved speaks a lot for his integrity.
Since this matter seems to keep coming up, perhaps you can have an auto responder e-mail feedback requests a couple months after their order? Not only could you help customers with part problems when they don't bring it to your attention... You can add the customer comments to your website for reference. I'd be happy to leave you one.

Greg

------------------

L67, FieroX Valve Covers, 180 Degree Stat, 4T65E-HD, Intense LSD, Intense Shift Kit, Tranny Cooler, XP-Hot Cam, DUB 3.0-3.25", Gator Belts, Custom DHP, MSD DIS-4, CAI, TB Spacer, WCF Headers, EGR Delete, Borla Exhaust, Held Motorsports Front Slalom Racing Suspension, Coilovers, 12" Wilwood Brakes, 88 Rear Cradle (POR-15)

quote Originally posted by FieroGTguy: I have to hand it to Anthony at WCF to be excellent at customer service. He will definitely do right by his customers. He called my mechanic to work out issues with parts sent. I was told it was a part problem, but it was a matter of installation. He was ready to make another shift assembly, if needed. Just the fact he makes the first contact to request problems to be solved speaks a lot for his integrity. Since this matter seems to keep coming up, perhaps you can have an auto responder e-mail feedback requests a couple months after their order? Not only could you help customers with part problems when they don't bring it to your attention... You can add the customer comments to your website for reference. I'd be happy to leave you one. Greg

I agree with the auto responder.. In fact, I have the West Coast Fiero Online Store ready for action... It has the main parts that WCF carries... Mounts, brackets, exhaust, etc... I am adding parts as the days go by... This may be the best way to actually order stuff from WCF from now on... That way, it keeps everyone there busier on the work in the shop, and gives them more time to help others out with tech support, etc...

In fact, I have done craploads of modifications to the online store from the WCF side... Followups with customers automatically... When your shipment is sent from WCF, you get an email with the tracking information and who the shipper was... Hopefully, this will help A LOT with people stating that parts were never ordered, sent, etc... There's also a helpdesk system installed, so when you get your parts, if you have problems with them during install, you can open a trouble ticket, and get a response via email that way ( which is preferred since we don't seem to be having much luck finding all the fact about problems on here )...

So hopefully this helps everyone out, because I know people have been saying that they call in orders, and it takes forever to get them shipped, etc...

Anywayz, hope it helps everyone out...

--- Goobher!

http://fieros.westcoastfiero.com/shopwcf

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: I agree with the auto responder.. In fact, I have the West Coast Fiero Online Store ready for action... It has the main parts that WCF carries... Mounts, brackets, exhaust, etc... I am adding parts as the days go by... This may be the best way to actually order stuff from WCF from now on... That way, it keeps everyone there busier on the work in the shop, and gives them more time to help others out with tech support, etc... In fact, I have done craploads of modifications to the online store from the WCF side... Followups with customers automatically... When your shipment is sent from WCF, you get an email with the tracking information and who the shipper was... Hopefully, this will help A LOT with people stating that parts were never ordered, sent, etc... There's also a helpdesk system installed, so when you get your parts, if you have problems with them during install, you can open a trouble ticket, and get a response via email that way ( which is preferred since we don't seem to be having much luck finding all the fact about problems on here )... So hopefully this helps everyone out, because I know people have been saying that they call in orders, and it takes forever to get them shipped, etc... Anywayz, hope it helps everyone out... --- Goobher! http://fieros.westcoastfiero.com/shopwcf

Thanks Goober

Goobs is the man...the man with the master plan...lol!