The 4.9 regularly attacked as swap, and unfairly IMHO. The most common stated reasons are....lack of aftermarket performance parts and it's not a SBC. The other point which is made rarely is it's not a Northstar. This is a point that's made so rare I won't deal with it here.

However, in regards to the aftermarket question. I believe this necessary only if you're trying to go
faster and faster like at the dragstrip. Because, it RULES in regular city type driving. Sure, there are fatser cars around but. As it has been stated before and I can attest, it takes a hell of a car to outgun a 4.9 from light to light in the city. Now to the SBC issue. It's a fact that the Caddy V8 is on par or performs better than some SBCs without the added expense of a kit necessary to install the SBC.

I've owned over 50 different cars from TR7s, Maximas, Fiats 131s, 400CI GPs, 440 Chryslers and a V12 Jag XJ12 and only the 440 Chysler and V12 Jaguar pulls harder at highway speeds. Are there fatser cars, of course, but it's tops for the money. I also believe the 4.9 comes under attack because it's the new V8 alternative which ruffles the feathers of those beholden to the SBC.

Bottom line it provides an absoltely HUGE improvement over the Fiero stocks motors and will run very close to a stock 3800SC and SBC.

I took the following comments are from another thread I started sometime ago.

quote Originally posted by PBJ: I have ridden in one with a 3800 s/c and other 4.9 fiero's, but that was down in PA and a straight road does not exist, so it does not take much to get that scary feeling when the turn is comming up fast. The 4.9 is not the ultimate track performance. It is great on the street, light to light. Our 4.9 can take 12 sec cars for the first 330 feet but as said before the 4.9 is a torque engine not a big HP engine. I have done our complete 4.9 for the same $'s as some have bought engines for. If anyone puts in a 4.9 from removing a 4 cyl or stock 6 cyl they will be happy. We are very happy with ours. Pete

quote Originally posted by stevenrossi: I've got both 5.7 and 4.9 powered Fiero's...bith standard with 225's and 215's on them...fairly large tires. The 4.9 can pretty much beat any car from a stop light to stop light race...1/4 mile it would not do so well but off the line...it's not even worth the gas to race others. Smooth ride, easy install, reliable, light, big sound, CHEAP. The 5.7 can rev higher and pulls harder through all gears and to the end, however, in a stop light to stop light race I believe it would be tight...and the 4.9 cost a fraction of what the 5.7 did. Good Luck...in my opinion and V8 is good...what does 0.8L matter Good Luck Steven Rossi

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: I drove Eds too. Off the line it felt more torqey than my C5. I mean you can feel your neck snaping back from 1000 RPM. Most drivers would love it.

quote Originally posted by rockcrawl: I own three 4.9 powered Fieros. That should speak for itself considering I could have any engine I want in them. Mine range from stock Cadillac smooth to race car rumble. You can expect high 13 to low 14 second quarter mile times depending on transmission and driver. Low 5 seconds 0-60 MPH. MPG in the high 20's. You'll beat the 3800SC off the line, but they'll catch you by the 1/8 mile mark. Drivability is just wonderful. I drove one to Ontario and back in January and I couldn't have asked for a better trip.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack Cooke:

Ed Parks install a 93 4.9 with 41k and auto tranny in my 86GT back in Feb. I drove it from N.C. to Daytona and then to Ed's swap meet. Cruised at 80mph and got 29.8mpg on both trips. The 4.9 drives like a 2.8 BUT it is stronger and a lot quicker. I have to drive in drive 2 in traffic and in town to stay out of the brakes as the Caddy trans does NOT hold you back when you let up on the gas.[/QUOTE]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Cooter:

With Terry and Jon's help, a friend and I built an 88 GT with the 4.9 and a getrag tranny. It is a quicker car (and gets better gas mileage) than my '86 L98 Corvette. [/QUOTE]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Comparing the 4.9L Cadillac to the SBC is like comparing Apples and Oranges. The SBC is the ultimate hot rod engine which you can build to the limit of your imagination. The 4.9L is an economical aluminum block, torque monster with a 4500 redline. It can be installed along with a tranny which is carefully matched to the engines characteristics. It is fairly easy to install a 4.9L but hard to build this engine for more power. In contrast it is very easy to build the SBC for more power. However, when you consider the cost per horsepower/ft lbs torque and the ease of installation, IMO the 4.9L can't be beat.

You might have already read this excerpt is from the Fiero Factory website. But just in case you haven't.
by: Scott Perkins

Since getting the 4.9 V8 conversion from The Fiero Factory installed in my Fiero, I put 30,000 miles on my car. I drove my car from Cincinnati to Los Angeles and back, during the hot summner in August. I drove it through the hottest part of the desert, up long steep hills at high speed with the A/C turned on, and the temperature stayed below 200 degrees except for one five minute period when it hovered around 220 (The red line is at 240). Most of the time the gauge stayed right on 180 degrees. The engine bay even stays cooler now than it did with the original V6 engine. I drove through the mountains in Colorado at over 10,000 ft altitude. The engine had no trouble adapting to all these conditions, and ran well on the 85 octane gas they sell up in the mountains.

It was near Vail at high altitude up in the mountains that I learned my car now has more acceleration than an Audi A6 2.7 Twin Turbo($43,000). As far as the installation of the engine goes, there was only one very minor issue in the first 30,000 miles. I found a transmission line with a rubber hose clamp which had some visible fluid clinging around the clamp. It was a very slow leak, an ooze rather than a drip. The problem turned out to be a defective hose clamp which had been tightened but would not tighten up far enough. I replaced this clamp, and have had no other issues.

I have had perfect reliability so far, and the car is trouble free to use as a daily driver. No failures to start, no acting up, and nothing has come loose. I haven't even had to tighten a belt. The gauges work perfectly too. All I do is change the oil and put gas in it, then drive some more. To have this level of performance combined with such low maintenance, great gas mileage and full-coverage insurance for only $700 per year, is about as close you can get to automotive bliss in a daily driver. The Fiero Factory conversion has held up very well. Great job guys!

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Why I Chose The 4.9 V8 Conversion

I use my Fiero as a daily driver, and like many Fiero owners, I wanted more horsepower than the stock engine provided. I considered many ways to boost the power, and came up with a few of my own priorities. Of course, other people will have their own priorities, but just for fun, here are mine: 1. I'm not quite rich enough to justify spending over $10,000 for an engine. I had to keep the expense down to earth. 2. I like the handling provided by the stock suspension on the 88 GT, and I wanted my car to handle the same with the new engine. 3. The more high-RPM power the better, but it couldn't substitute for low-RPM power. After all, I use the car as a daily driver. 4. My old 2.8 V6 engine was already worn out, so even if I bought a turbocharger, I would still have to buy or rebuild an engine to go with it. 5. I didn't want bad mileage. 6. It had to pass the smog check in Ohio.

One way to achieve priority #1 was to pick an engine and transmission combo which weighed no more than the stock engine and transmission. This saved me $900 by avoiding the expense of new coilover struts and stiffer springs. This weight saving approach also met priority #2, because I wouldn't have to modify the suspension. My money and weight limits eliminated the cast-iron small-block V8(5.7L) and Northstar V8(4.6L) as engine options. Both were too heavy, and in addition, one of these conversions was too pricey; guess which. As for my priority #3, the Caddy 4.9 V8 makes around 150HP at only 3000 RPM. In stark comparision, did you know the famous 240HP S2000 engine produces only 50HP at 3000 RPM, and only 25HP at 1500 RPM? This is less power at these RPMs than the original Fiero 4-cylinder. Needless to say, I didn't want a tiny engine.

BTW, the S2000 is an interesting comparison because it weighs about the same as a Fiero GT.
3000 RPM Horsepower GM 4.9 V8 150HP--GM 2.8 V6-75HP--GM 2.5 L4-61HP--S2000 VTEC 50HP
1500 RPM Horsepower GM 4.9 V8-75HP--GM 2.8 V6-38HP--GM 2.5 L4-31HP--S2000 VTEC 25HP.

The 4.9 V8 would meet priority #3, yet so would the very smooth 3.4 V6 with a turbocharger added. But since I needed a new engine anyway, the cost of the 3.4 V6 with turbo was going to be close or maybe more than the 4.9 V8 conversion. Priority #5 steered me away from the Supercharged 3800, because word on the street was the 4.9 gets better mileage. And the 4.9 has more low-RPM power, because superchargers just don't do much at low RPMs. There were a couple of other nitpicky issues with the supercharged 3800, which caused me to favor the 4.9. The alternator gets in the way of the Fiero trunk-lid lift spring, requiring the substitution of one of those leaky gas struts like you find on a hatchback. And the 3800 is an old-fashioned 90 degree V6 which is not as well balanced as the more modern 60 degree V6 (GM 2.8, 3.1, 3.4L engines). The 3800 requires a balance shaft to be smooth.

These are small issues, and honestly the 3800 might have been my choice if there was no 4.9 V8 conversion available. The only thing the supercharged 3800 had in its favor over the 4.9 was about 25 more horsepower at high-RPM compared to the stock 4.9 V8. I chose in favor of the low-RPM power and smoothness of the 4.9 V8, knowing it's always possible to add tuner parts to the V8 to get the 10% extra high-RPM power, or maybe much more.

Though I wasn't sure at the time, I can now report that the 4.9 V8 actually smog tests much better (65% less smog) than the original 2.8 engine , and it gets better highway mileage too at 28MPG. The old engine never turned more than 27MPG on the highway with the 5-speed stick shift. An additional highly important factor in my decision was the quality of the 4.9 V8 conversion available from the Fiero Factory. This has to be one of the nicest installations I have ever seen for an engine conversion. It looks just like it would look if GM had built the Fiero with this engine from the factory. I have had many people look it over and say they never new GM put V8s in Fieros. The wonderful clean wiring job is a must have item. And this conversion provides for using the factory computer, so there is no problem with emmisions control. Also the factory computer is needed to operate the electronically controlled 4-speed Cadillac automatic transmission. If you want this excellent transmission which maximizes the fuel economy of the 4.9 V8, You will need a conversion which includes the factory Cadillac computer. Oh, and there is one more little reason I had for choosing the 4.9 V8 conversion for my Fiero; it makes it fast!

quote Originally posted by stevenrossi: I've owned both 4.9 and 5.7 powered Fieros and I cant chose one. Everyone expects you to have a 400HP V8 in your fiero around my area...they'll come up to me and ask "so its that a Corvette Engine"...NO!. I chose the 4.9L only becasue I didnt want to buy any Kits and cut any holes. 4.9 was cheap, powerful, loud, LIGHT. Once im finished with my next project we'll see how many SBC put up a fight off the line...I should be running mid-12's with the next mod...you'll see it comming up shortly. The only reason I like MY 4.9L better is becasue I know more about it, its MORE origional and I can get 4.9L parts from my work for nearly nothing...meanwhile last TPI we got in was 3 months ago and prior to that it was nearly 3 years! I dont think ones BETTER then the other...the 4.9 was just more convienant. Which is better? SBC? 4.9? How about both! I'm sure that at least 70% of the Forum members here would Kill to have ether. Steve

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: [QUOTE]Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Well, I have to chime in on this one. First off... I am not here to point fingers at anyone or any "fiero shop". If you dont like my post, dont take it personal cause its MY opinion. With that being said. Here goes. I have built several SBC fieros, a TDC fiero, a few 4.9 fieros and I hope to build a 3800sc next. Each have there own good AND bad points. I will touch on a few as related to a FIERO swap (sbc/4.9 only): SBC Good HUGE (I mean ungodly amount) of aftermarket parts. Heck you can build one and not use a single OEM part. VERY reliable Cheap Readily availible can be built to what ever HP/TQ level your wallet can handle. If you want it, someone has probably built it. BAD ALOT of custom parts to install it into a fiero and they add up $$$$ manual trans w/ high HP/TQ = EXPENSIVE clutch to even think about holding up. Still a trans designed for a 98hp 4cyl or 140hp v6 being used with a v8. Not a matter of IF but WHEN it breaks. Harder to replace plugs, belts and w/p than the original engines Cutting required to fit into a Fiero If something breaks used for the swap... you are at the KIT builders mercy for replacement parts. Dont think you are going to Pep Boys for some of those custom parts. Ok 4.9 Good Cheap to buy, Cheap to install yourself VERY reliable Readily availible FACTORY aluminum block (less weight added during swap) huge power gains over 4cyl or v6 and you retain the 100% original GM design. In other words, its stock.... no added stress to engine so its just as reliable as if it were in the caddy donor. Appears stock to the general public. Most dont even reailize its a v8! (well till you start it up) V8 sound, V8 power for less than taking your car in for a stock replacement motor. As good if not better MPG than the original 2.8 BAD Aftermarket support is next to nothing other than ignition and N20. manual trans= Cost of a really good clutch will be way higher than typical parts store clutch kit to even think about holding up. Still a trans designed for a 98hp 4cyl or 140hp v6 being used with a v8. Not a matter of IF but WHEN it breaks. Harder to replace plugs, belts and w/p than the original engines Well thats a few. I can tell you from my own experience that the 4.9 is a great swap. It has been everything that I thought it would be. I now have a 13 sec fiero w/o n20 and maybe this weekend I will be able to report that I do indeed have a 12 sec 4.9 Fiero on the bottle. In all honesty it all comes down to money. I have a v8 for 1/4 what I would of had going to a SBC. Call me cheap, call me stupid or call me your typical Fiero owner, I am happy and thats all that matters. Ask anyone that has either engine, was it worth what you spent on it for HP vrs $$ invested. Was there any adverse effects on the car directly related to the swap? I dont know the 4.9 is back there other than the exhaust note and how hard it pulls when I push the gas pedal. And thats the truth! Steven

It's too bad that people can't test drive the different swaps (SBC,4.9,3800SC,3.4DOHC,N* etc. to help them make a decision. Because I'm sure many would agree the 4.9 is more than enough for most Fiero owners unless they have the dragstrip as the ultimate goal. [/QUOTE]

Good info! You're right about testing the various swaps. That's why I've been trying to drive various swaps to see what they're like. I've driven both a 4.9 with the 4.10 4-speed and a GT with the LT1 5-speed. The 4.9 positively LEAPS off the line, but after first gear, the LT1 would be all over it. Or at least that's how it felt to me. Still, for bang for the buck and fun to drive quotient in a V8, it's real hard to beat a 4.9. I am considering a 4.9 if my budget doesn't allow for something more. It's an awesome swap for the money.

I truly considered the 4.9 when I started thinking about swaps, but its not the engine for me. Too bad, cause theres a 90 something Caddy in a local yard with a 4.9 that hasn't been touched. But my problem was simple: I want to keep my manual trans, and in CA that combination won't fly.

BTW, if anyone in CA with a V8 or other swap in thier car would be so kind as to let me take it for a spin so I can test out all the swap options before I put money down, it would be greatly appreciated!

I am not too familiar with the 4.9 swap since I havent owned a Fiero since before people started doing them (or atleast on a wide scale basis). How much money do you save with the 4.9 over the 3800 S/C? If its as cheap as you guys are making it sound then I would consider it. What about the weight difference (if any) since its aluminum?

thanks in advance

Maybe this will help.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DrDave:

Some of the facts I've accumulated: the weight of :
4.9 auto=559
4.9 Isuzu=504
3.8t/c auto =633
3.8t/c isuzu=578
2.5 isuzu=436
4.6 auto =605
sbc auto =753
sbc isuzu=678
3.4 isuzu =474
includes weights of Engines, clutch, Pressure plate, Flywheel, transmissions, torque converters. as needed.

How does the northstar compare to an Ls1?
weight? max rpm? is it a pushrod engine or..?

I have read many things about putting an Ls1 in every car you can think of from an integra to a delorean to a motorcycle...
and have yet to even see anyone mention the engine in a fiero(while i have heard about the lt1 swap)? am I missing something?(other then getting an Ls1 engine itself see'ing how its a new'er engine)

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This msg was brought to you buy a person who wishes he had an 88 fieroGT with an LS1 and 6speed.

+ for you

BTW- how much did it cost to have the swap done for you?

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G Mo

Quote from Street&Strip

quote I think I've drove people crazy talking about Fieros over here. I'm like a travelling evangelist trying to convert people

quote Originally posted by NickBW: How does the northstar compare to an Ls1? weight? max rpm? is it a pushrod engine or..? I have read many things about putting an Ls1 in every car you can think of from an integra to a delorean to a motorcycle... and have yet to even see anyone mention the engine in a fiero(while i have heard about the lt1 swap)? am I missing something?(other then getting an Ls1 engine itself see'ing how its a new'er engine)

There are 2 members here with LS1 Fieros

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1986 SE 350 V8

I'm going the 4.9 route this summer. The only thing that I really dislike of the 4.9 is the way it looks in the engine bay, it really doesn't have the pizazz of the 3800/SBC/N*

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great topic --- I am partial to caddy v8's too!

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White '84 SE w/ '89 Deville 4.5L/440T4, '87 coupe front and rear facia, '86 GT decklid and spoiler, Grand Am GT 16" wheels, KYB shocks & struts [URL=http://hometown.aol.com/serge144/myhomepage/index.html]

While you have a very good number of good points about the 4.9L (I'd love to have one in my daily driver & I'm helping my Dad install one in an '87 GT... I personally am going the SBC route), I have one question/comment to add in relation to this statement:

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: Now to the SBC issue. It's a fact that the Caddy V8 is on par or performs better than some SBCs without the added expense of a kit necessary to install the SBC

What are "stock" performance numbers for each engine (and to which SBC are you comparing)?
What is the cost of each in crate motor form? (not talking used stuff here)
What is the cost of rebuilding each motor?

Just trying to look at it in terms of short-term intial costs vs. long term maintence costs & availability... just food for thought
I am in no way saying anything negative about the 4.9L, I'm just doing a little comparing/contrasting... I've recently talked someone into doing a 4.9L over other options, and I've always defended the opinion that any V8 is better than nothing

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Looking for Fiero posters?

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: I've recently talked someone into doing a 4.9L over other options,

O yea, who was that???????

Eric

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Used is such a harsh term. . . I perfer "Previously obsessed over" ;)

I've been going back 'n forth on swapping to 4.9 or going turbo 3.1
The 4.9 THE best bang for the buck upgrade you can do to a Fiero. I think thats why its looked down upon, because many who do it, dont have alot of cash for major swaps, and, it usually shows in the final product. It looks swapped and the car usually isnt looking its best. fear not, Mastermind, the 4.9 does not have a BAD rap, it just doesnt have as good of a rap as SBC's, N*'s, & 3.8sc's - all of which are great motors, but the motor & swap usually costs more than most of us paid for the car in the first place. the 4.9 is the poor mans V8 Fiero.

quote Originally posted by MinnGreenGT: What are "stock" performance numbers for each engine (and to which SBC are you comparing)?

I think this is the real question that people don't quite understand about the SBC. Not all SBC's are the same. For example; i've been in a 260 HP LM1 350 Fiero and i've been in a 450HP LT1 with aluminum heads. One was quick but not earth shatteringly so but the other was a beast! In fact, the best way for me to descibe that experience is in two words; holy crap! So this right here is the reason you just can't say that this compares to a SBC Fiero because there's such a wide variance in output and configurations to the SBC.
That does not mean that i or anyone else thinks that the 4.9 is a bad or worse swap then the SBC. In fact, i'd love to have a 4.9 in my car any day! Especially if i could have the turbo that PBJ has. I also don't think the caddy V8 looks bad in the Fiero. You just have to understand that there's good and bad on both swaps. I don't think anyone really puts down the 4.9 it's just that what they want is something else. If we were all the same and liked the same things it would be a boring world.

<edit for typos>
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Activities Director N.I.F.E.

[This message has been edited by Dave Gunsul (edited 02-12-2004).]

There will always a backlash against the 4.9 as an alternative engine by the average hot rodder or engine swapper because it is not regarded as a performance motor and the reason for this is ignorance and people just jumping on the bandwagon and echoing the sentiments of others. All engines have the capapability to perform if there is interest in it to research ways of making it make power and this applies to the 4.9,the volkswagen,the mini,rotary were not designed to be race engines but some took the time out to make it work and the 4.9 is no different and as popularity grows because of the low cost of the swap aftermarket parts makers will start to recognize the $$ potential and make these available.
As for reliability they are # 1 175,000 miles and the cross hatch pattern is still in the cylinder walls so that speaks for it self beauty is another I agree it is nort a pretty engineand was not designed to be that way but as a functional low maintainance one and can be made to look good on rockcrawl's website he did a good job to beautify it:
But since it is a low cost low budget engine the average swapper will not care about looks but the performance but it can be beautified if desired.
The SBC,3800SC,Quad 4 all these are great engines in theit own respect and to each his own and what ever engine you choose for your car you are going to be biased towards it .

Edited to give credit to Rockcrawl for using a picture from www.fieroaddiction.com .

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Quickest 4.5 Fiero Supercar
85 Fastback SE/GT
4.5 (RSR)Hi Perf. Caddi-V8 Blueprint&Balanced.
Sub 12sec1/4 mile (to be track verified)
Undergoing Custom Restoration

[This message has been edited by Master Tuner Akimoto (edited 02-12-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I've been going back 'n forth on swapping to 4.9 or going turbo 3.1 The 4.9 THE best bang for the buck upgrade you can do to a Fiero. I think thats why its looked down upon, because many who do it, dont have alot of cash for major swaps, and, it usually shows in the final product. It looks swapped and the car usually isnt looking its best. fear not, Mastermind, the 4.9 does not have a BAD rap, it just doesnt have as good of a rap as SBC's, N*'s, & 3.8sc's - all of which are great motors, but the motor & swap usually costs more than most of us paid for the car in the first place. the 4.9 is the poor mans V8 Fiero.

I agree on your assesment. I also think that people who do the SBC end up with a conversion that is not it's best looking as they run low on funds and use used engines for thier swaps. Yes it seems that the people who use crate engines or N* or 3800sc II tend to spend more on the details.
Rest assured I am not trying to put down anybodys swap just some observations.

I think you have just changed my decision on what V8 I want to put in my 86. I want a V8 mostly for the ooohhhh value, looks, and sound. Most of my driving is highway. I was planning on using a 305, but I thought the SBC was the easiest and cheapest to install. I do have a few ?'s though.

right now I have a 2.5L Isusu in my car.

With the 4.9L, what parts would have to be changed? I am assuming motor mount (s).
How do people do exhausts for their V8's?

Wiring, are the 4.9's carbd, MPFI, or TBI? What would be the easiest?

Would my Isuzu work well with the 4.9? Keep in mind, that I should do mostly highway driving, not much racing.

How much would a rebuild kit cost for a 4.9? Being a Caddy motor and all aluminun, I think it might have a premium.

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Details on my Fiero here
Member of the Edmonto Fiero Club Please rate me if I helped you!

Who says if you put a 4.9 in your Fiero is because you cant afford anything else or that it cant look good?

Anyone think my swap is ugly or done cheaply?

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'02 Subaru WRX 14.61@91.87mph bone stock
'95 R33 Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec NISMO stage 1 400bhp
'92 Mini Cooper 1.3i 74 brain-numbing hp!!!
'87 Fiero GT 4.9/4T60e w/3.33 final drive, ZEX nitrous 65hp shot, 88 cradle w/ 325# coil overs, Poly everything, Upgraded sway bars, KYB's, 16X7 M11's, 11.25 "Zettner" front brakes, Complete MSD ignition w/ 6AL box, Custom 2.5" Flowmaster exhaust, Grand Sport Corvette paint, Carbon fiber interior trim, '98 T/A CD w/ ETR, Reverse Indiglo guages, Pillar mounted AutoMeter O2, Hella H4 conversion.
Follow its built up here:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/027460.html
Sadly... SOLD.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Who says if you put a 4.9 in your Fiero is because you cant afford anything else or that it cant look good? Anyone think my swap is ugly or done cheaply?

Your swap doesn't look cheap or ugly, yours looks like it came from the factory that way. I just stated that the 3800SC/N*/SBC (some SBC's) have more pizazz to them.

Wasnt really directed at you, it was more in responce to what Pyrthian said.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Who says if you put a 4.9 in your Fiero is because you cant afford anything else or that it cant look good? Anyone think my swap is ugly or done cheaply?

That looks awesome! I was speaking in general, and will stand by it. One of the funs things when talking about what people do, is that no statement is EVER 100% correct. The wonderful thing about people is theres always an exception. And your car is exceptional!

What kind of flywheel is available for a manual?

Thanks and GL

quote How much money do you save with the 4.9 over the 3800 S/C?

Not much. The only difference is the cost of the engine. A 3800SC usually costs quite a bit more than a 4.9, but when you look at the overall cost of the complete conversion the difference is really not worth considering. Pick the one you want and go with it.

I agree the 4.9 does have its appearance challenge. But then I have now seen many engine swaps and found that it depends on the person doing the job. On our car many people have thought it looks stock but I can see the areas I would improve. The biggest area I have never really been satisfied is with the air intake plumbing. The Rockcrawl intakes really help. That and I found the 4.9 IMO looks better black because it causes less attention within the engine compartment.

Maybe I'm just different but, engine appearance is way overrated. IMHO. I have no dssire to enter car shows or lift my rear deck lid to show people how the engine looks. I'm more concerned about how well it actually moves the car. And it moves it as well or better than many other swaps. Esprcially for my type of driving (City).

BTW I also drive the expressway/highways quite often.

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: I'm more concerned about how well it actually moves the car.

I think many 4.9 owners maybe be more concerned about how it appears because, being concerned about how the 4.9 performs has been satisfied during the first road test.

Pete

What can you expect from a basically stock 4.9 with the Allante manifold? That manifold makes the engine look oh so sweet!

Mastermind, "BTW- how much did it cost to have the swap done for you?"

Interesting test...

1992 STS 4.9L Performance
The following graph shows a comparison of my 1992 STS 4.9L OHV, with Fastchip, Accel ignition, MSD wires, and Edelbrock muffler with my 1996 STS 4.6L DOHC from 0 to 70 mph in 10 mph increments.

Modified 1992 STS AP-22 Baseline:
92 STS 4.9L
Temp: 79F
Humid: 80%
Barometer: 29.68s
Weight: 3826 lbs (low on fuel)

Run 1:
Start Speed 0.0mph
mph s g ft hp
10.0 0.88 0.53 6 56
20.0 1.72 0.54 24 113
30.0 2.68 0.44 60 142
40.0 3.94 0.29 125 128
50.0 5.50 0.26 229 149
60.0 7.28 0.24 373 166
70.0 9.36 0.20 572 170

Pk Power: 66.3mph 8.54s 490ft 174hp
Peak G: 20.4mph 1.76s 25ft 0.54g

Check Run 2:
Start Speed 0.0mph
mph s g ft hp
10.0 0.90 0.54 6 57
20.0 1.73 0.54 24 114
30.0 2.71 0.43 60 138
40.0 3.98 0.31 126 136
50.0 5.58 0.26 233 146
60.0 7.40 0.23 380 159
70.0 9.51 0.19 582 165

Pk Power: 69.3mph 9.34s 564ft 171hp
Peak G: 20.7mph 1.79s 26ft 0.54g

My guess is that since our cars weigh about 30% less (2700 lbs.) we should expect faster 0-60 times closer to 5.1...

[This message has been edited by XRacer Pro (edited 02-13-2004).]

I often park my rather mundane little notchback along side PBJ's 4.9 at cruise nights. All I can say is that there are any number of people who look in his engine compartment and go "Holy Crapp!" or "Good God look at this!" or "Hey Jim comeover here and check this out".

It always gathers a crowd when it fires up. It sounds great.

LT1 guys come around to just "ask" what PBJ is up to for next season. (they just want to know if they can catch Becky before the quarter mile lights)

The point being that a 4.9 is no slouch in any department.

Like Master Tuner says. If you want performance, you just do your homework and don't rely entirely on the factory to give you an off the shelf piece of hardware.

Of course, who is a 2.8 owner to talk?

Arn

Well I for one just had my 4.9 motor dropped off last night and will be doing the swap in the near future. I will be spending at least a month prepping the motor as I want it to look clean as possible when installed. Since I am on a budget, I did not even concider any other swaps because I want a LOW END MONSTER! not a ricey DOHC, the 4.9l suited MY NEEDS. No Matter what you choose, what ever you think of other peoples swap they are just that, other peoples swaps not yours, stop bashing their choice, this is AMERICA not the SOVIET UNION!

4.9 all the way!

http://members.rogers.com/jrossi

take a look! - Turn up the speakers!
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[This message has been edited by stevenrossi (edited 02-13-2004).]

Nice sounding CARB!

Too bad that second video comes up so small.

A pic of your engine compartment would be very nice.

Arn

The one thing I question about swapping this motor is what about a few years down the road. Lets say you go ahead and swap a 4.x motor and five years from now you throw a rod and take a sleeve out. Whats the likely hood of getting replacement parts for it? I've heard everyone say that if you blow a 4.9 to just go out and get another one because it is cheaper then rebuilding. So what happens when there are no more junkyard 4.9s? I don't want to be stuck with a motor that I don't have rebuild parts for. Is GM still supporting the motor lower end wise?

If you can't replace the 4.9 you can always swap it for whatever is the latest greatest swap at that time. That's the beauty of the Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 02-13-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Manic Mechanic: The one thing I question about swapping this motor is what about a few years down the road. Lets say you go ahead and swap a 4.x motor and five years from now you throw a rod and take a sleeve out. Whats the likely hood of getting replacement parts for it? I've heard everyone say that if you blow a 4.9 to just go out and get another one because it is cheaper then rebuilding. So what happens when there are no more junkyard 4.9s? I don't want to be stuck with a motor that I don't have rebuild parts for. Is GM still supporting the motor lower end wise?

Additionally, using that same logic, why have a Fiero in the first place? After all, GM no longer provides many parts for it.

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: Additionally, using that same logic, why have a Fiero in the first place? After all, GM no longer provides many parts for it.

While that is true, many of the parts on a fiero will never need replacing if properly cared for. Along with a broadning aftermarket I doubt a lack of parts to be valid in the long run. Unless your considering keeping your car when others are driving hoverships. (which I plan on doing)

But concerning the 4.9. If I swap an engine I don't want to HAVE to swap in something else a few years down the road. If I spend an amount of money to get performance in the car I don't want to have to respend it on swapping something else.

If you look at every other "common" swap you can still get fresh motors. And with two of the most popular swaps (3800 & SBC) an entire engine can be built from scratch. And the quad4 and N* have mantapart and chrfab. Actually now that I think about it the 4.9 does have ASG but talk about $$$.

This is my ONLY problem with a 4.x swap, and I'm still considering doing it anyway because of the cost vs performance issue.

Here's a question for those with more exact knowledge with the beast. Is there still a way to obtain new sleeves for the block? And if not any guestimates on the cost for getting a set made?

I think that the 4.9 will be more common in 5 years at the scrap yards then what they are now. Many 4.9s are still one the road. A Caddy most likely won't be chushed as soon as a Grand Am ..... And they are not a high demand engine so more for the pickings. Your not investing much in the swap. your not altering things,(much) If you throw a rod put a new engine in. The cost of the 4.9 here is $300 I think that is a low cost for a major engine repair plus your time but that will be the same with any engine. The 4.9 has proven itself to be very reliable, many 200,000+ mile engines still running strong.

A low redline is another negative rap used against the 4.9 Caddy. I think this is because many are used to having to rev smaller engines to death in order to produce comparable performance. This may present more of a problem with those using manuals due to the inadequate gearing of the transmissions. This is not a problem when using the Caddy auto trans.

Moreover, some people see the low redline and think the engine is a slug. Never realizing that the 4.9 produces its power faster than any other engine I can think of that's commonly used in Fiero swaps. So what does that mean? It means that you are almost always running within your powerband. Thus eliminating the necessity of high revs to produce power. It also means . a Caddy 4.9 with auto trans can out launch and hold off most cars in everyday driving situations.

Furthermore, I think many are comparing the underperforming Fiero 2.8 automatic in the back of their minds to the 4.9 with Caddy trans. This is a major mistake as there is absolutely no comparison except they are both automatic transmissions made by GM.

Bottomline, your perceptions/perspective will forever be changed, if you ever drive a 4.9

Mastermind:

"Bottomline, your perceptions/perspective will forever be changed, if you ever drive a 4.9".

You've done a great job promoting the 4.9. I have one in my shop that I've started the swap with.

But: what did you pay for your swap? If you had Ed Parks do it, and I understand that he does great work, I would like to compare the price of a DIY to a turnkey swap. With my abilities, he might be the better choice.

Thanks,
Robert