Just out of curiosity, what other kinds of cars are there that are in the same niche:

Cheap, upgradable, well handling small cars.

What other cars are in that catigory?

Well, the closest things to a Fiero in terms of price and philosophy are the Toyota MR2 and the Fiat X1/9 (mid-engine 2 seaters).

I know some Fiero people consider these the words of a heretic , but I do like the 2nd gen MR2s. The turbo versions have pretty good power, and they handle nicely.

[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 04-04-2004).]

I will be the first to get attacked. No seriously I also have a Neon with the DOHC engine and it is only about 2450 lbs. It is pretty agile on its stock suspention but I still prefer my 86 GT. My GT is lowered and has a front and rear roll bar and many other upgrades. But it would be interesting to do some simple mods to the Neon to see if it could handle a little better. The Neon has alot of body roll compared to my fiero and it kind of freaks me out. I like both my cars.

i have a 95 honda del sol vtec . that car is awesome . big trunk , fast as heck . one of the best gas mileage, no mechanical problems with it yet .

My outher car is a 85 MR2 fun car but steel bodie = rust

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85 GT 4 speed 2.8L auto X'er

Boo!

Freakin copies is what those mr2's are! Copies I tell you!
LOL

I think the only way a car can be a Fiero alternative is when
it is RWD.
MR2, 240SX, RX-7, to name a few.

There really isn't any american car in that niche our Fieros fill.

bucik reatta
cadi allanti (sp?)

Sorry but none of the cars mentioned stacks up to the Fiero. The Fiero stands alone as the only car that can be modified in both engine and body so easily. It is simply the most versatile mass producted platform ever made PERIOD.

I like my pontiac grand prix GTP, 3.4L DOHC 5 speed, seems to be some mods you can do to them, but they arent as modable as the fiero is...

If you want something to mod, get a 1990 model or so honda civic CRX SI and add a turbo, we have one local that runs high 12's and is basically a stock motor with a big turbo on it.

matthew

its a very very good "base" car... but 240's, civics, rx7's, mr2's do have a multitude of kits avail, and maybe not quite as varied engine swap possibilities, but still have many avail to them...

they do however, have far better "big name" support than our car does....

James Z

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hmm... only car I can think of that would be a direct alternative to a fiero as far as handleing characteristics would be the mr2.(note, I have yet to be able to drive either vehicle I would interested in how they compare in handeling )
With that said, how about a turbo AWD DSM such as an eclipse GSX? You can get one fairly cheap and can be made really quick with not TOO much work.The question is, how well do they handle? Would they be worthy of being an alternative project sports car for someone who likes to fly threw the backroads and do abit of solo1/solo2 ?

oh yeah, a miata! 4 banger or not i doubt it would take much to get those things to hall some serious ass

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This msg was brought to you buy a person who wishes he had an 88 fieroGT with an LS1 and 6speed.

Another vote for the DSM's.

1st and 2nd gen turbos are getting pretty cheap and even the FWD set up can be made to be hella fast for next to nothing.

quote Originally posted by Jas: Just out of curiosity, what other kinds of cars are there that are in the same niche: Cheap, upgradable, well handling small cars. What other cars are in that catigory?

I'm amazed that nobody mentioned the Miata. Depending upon how you define "cheap", of course.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe...........

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.

How expensive are Miatas?

Get a 3rd gen RX-7 from an insurance auction, flood damage/blown motor 4-5 grand max, then ad an LS6 vette motor. You would probably have 10 grand into the whloe thing and have a nice looking 2 seat fast car, with a little more room for a stereo if you wanted one.

See, for me to be satisfied with calling something 'comparable', it would have to retain the one biggest thing that makes Fieros what they are - the mid-engine.

So, that pretty much limits the choices - MR2, MR2 2nd gen, etc. A DeLorean maybe, if you blur the line between mid- and rear-engine, which then also opens up Porches (which I don't care to have) and Karmann Ghias (which I probably wouldn't mind a bit).

As far as 'comparable' meaning two-seat and sporty, yeah, then we'e talking RX-7's, Miatas, del Sols and such. But for me, it'd have to be a convertible to make up for the loss of the mid-engine sportiness.

Good question... must ponder further...

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com -- 1988 Red Fiero Formula
- 1st Place - Stock Coupe - FOCOSEVA 2000
- 3rd Place - Stock Formula - FOCOA Nat'l 2001
- Class Winner - 1982 to Present - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2001
- Class Winner - Fiero: All Years - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2002
- Class Winner - Fiero: All Years - Tarheel Tigers All-Pontiac Show 2003
(working on an Automoda convertible conversion...)

[This message has been edited by LZeitgeist (edited 04-05-2004).]

In handling aspects the second gen Mr2 and Miata's out handle the Fiero, stock for stock. You can go to any autocross event and see that.

When I was shopping for a sports car, I was looking at vintage Triumphs, Healeys, Jags, and the Sunbeam Tiger (if you can find one)

The bottom line was the availability of parts and the expense to upgrade.

The TR6 makes a good V8 platform but, as we all know, the front end engine design of those cars means they are fun, but no longer a competitive design.

I found the Fiero, and discovered, with the rest of us, that it was designed far beyond its production specs, is upgradable for conservative cost, and performs like a thoroughbred with simple mods to the engine and suspension.

What other sports car will allow you to drop in an sbc or 3800, and still handle well? Change of weight ratio plays havoc with the handling of most sports car mods.

There really is no peer for the Fiero as production car that can be modified almost infinitely.

If I was looking for another type of sports car, I would not be looking for anything with the performance potential of the Fiero in the same price range.

And, yes, the Miata will out-turn us on auto cross because of the difference in wheel base. Sort of the same reason that the Austin Mini was banned on stock car tracks. Mini Coopers could run a 1/2 mile paved banked track at full throttle. The stock cars of the time just couldn't corner that well.

Arn

I'd say the only two cars in the same Niche as the Fiero are the MR2 and Miata. There is a fundamental difference between a two seater sports car and a sports coupe/economy pocket rocket. Therefore, I do not really consider anything like a Celica, RSX, Civic, etc etc a car in the same niche. People who buy those generally cannot live without their extra space and utility, and that is what makes a 2 seater sports car a niche vehicle. Its not for everyone.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: And, yes, the Miata will out-turn us on auto cross because of the difference in wheel base. Sort of the same reason that the Austin Mini was banned on stock car tracks. Mini Coopers could run a 1/2 mile paved banked track at full throttle. The stock cars of the time just couldn't corner that well. Arn

No, a Miata will outhandle us because it is a better handling platform. It's smaller, lighter, and has a purpose-built suspension designed to make it haul around corners. Wheelbase has something to do with it, but that's a fourth or fifth level factor. The 88 Fieros got a lot better in terms of suspension, but when you drive a Miata, you know that it's more than just wheelbase.

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GO BUCKS!!!

i say 240sx ... there is a HUGE aftermarket especially with engine swaps and preformance parts

have you ever looked under a miata ... the frame is so solid ... there really isnt a need for a sway bar. The Miata is basically the rx-7 frame and suspension ... with a smaller body and engine. they have turbo kits for them ... but nothing that mazda makes can stack up to the power in the 2nd gen rx-7 ... and the aftermaket is pretty big too (too bad most of it has to be imported)

I didn't read everything but did anyone mention porsche 944/928? They are cheap and to many porsche entusiasts look at them as "disposable". I bought an 86 944 for only $1100 with a blown engine and $500 for an extra engine. About 2200 into it now and it will be running soon.

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Jason

**86 base coupe 3800SC swap in progress, URGH!!!
**88 Formula T-top swap later
**Porsche 944 - almost running
**99 Yukon to tow all of the above around

i had a 1979 928 and while the power wasnt all that (225hp) the car would handle like it was on rails. I wouldnt recommend getting a 928 unless it was an 928s or above.

[This message has been edited by COUNTIBLIS (edited 04-05-2004).]

Lotus Elise!
The Fiero of the 90's!

quote Originally posted by Jas: How expensive are Miatas?

Depending on the year, decent cars are getting down into the $5k range. You can find nice ones that need work for under $1k if you keep your eyes peeled. If you do your own work this could be a very inexpensive way to get into a Miata.

As Countiblis said, both this and a 2nd gen MR2 will out handle even an '88 Fiero, stock for stock.

And as Dave Rodobaugh said, this is because of superior design, not because of a 4.2" shorter wheelbase.

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Doug Chase
Chase Race
Custom roll cage and exhaust fabrication

Well, lets see..... I was going to be a proud owner of an 88 Ttoped MR2 supercharged. It was peppy and had a pretty good powerband BUT, It had a hard suspension and was a little rougher than the Fiero. I missed out on it(Probly a plus I got a Formula with the money). Now the RX7's I owned two an 88 covert. and a 89 GTU Both handled good but the Fiero out corners it with less roll. And Finally the 944 as mentioned I have never driven a non turbo in those. But I have driven several 944S Turbo's They handle like you are on rails and have a great suspention under them. However 944 Turbo's aren't as easy to get cheap if you do you are lucky or it needs work. But also as mentioned above all but one car I mentioned here is a mid engined car. Each car has it's own characteristics but it all depends on what you like.

any comments on an AWD DSM's handling 'capabilities' compared to a fiero?

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This msg was brought to you buy a person who wishes he had an 88 fieroGT with an LS1 and 6speed.

These are always fun to read..... and although I love my Formula my 90 Miata will out turn and out burn it. Now, its not really a fair fight because my Miata has a Flyin Miata Turbo Kit running about 12psi, Wilwood Brakes, adjustable suspension, fully programable ECU, and many other goodies that make it a very fast track car. I do believe that for a Fiero to keep up with a turbo Miata on a road course it would have to run a 350 hp SBC. Bottom line, their both fun just a little different but there will never be anything quite like a V8 in the rear of a nice Fiero!

Thanks,
John

my other car is a sheep. who made the baretone(? on spelling)

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If life hands you oranges.....make screwdrivers

a De Tomaso pantera!! oh wait, thats not really affordable. How 'bout an MG Miget, or just an MG B? A Spit fire perhaps? Or...how bout a Porsche 914? Bricklin SV-1swould fit the bill, but not really affordable. Well, I'm stumped! Just stick with Fieros! ^.^

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Fiero: Get in, sit down, shut up, hold on!!

Both gen MR2s fit the bill and can attest to that cause we have in addition to my 86GT fiero, three MR2s. We're putting one for sale soon. It's kinda cool, it's an 86 with the Japan-only 5 value engine and has a turbo and other mods. If you're a mid engine nut, I think it will be on trueleo.com soon.

This is starting to sound like a list of my ex-cars! Mazda Miata, Porsche 924S, how about the Turbocharged Dodge Shelby Charger/Omni GLH? I had an 87 Charger and with a few tweeks, it was a rocket. Mopar sells 300hp "Super 60" kits for the 2.2L Turbo cars... impressive! Alas, if only it weren't front wheel drive.

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Still plays with cars!

1986 Fiero GT
1969 Porsche 912

I used to have a 92 MR2

They are nice. The turbo models are 14 second cars stock.

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-Chris

86 GT
***95 Camaro 3.4 swap, Ported and polished heads and intakes, CRX CAI, Custom Cam, steel vacuum lines, steel braided EGR tube, new Wire Harness, New Exhaust, No Cat, Flowmaster, polished poly dog bone. Isuzu 5 speed, Short through shifter
***Intrax 2" drop springs, Full Polly Suspension, Sencetrack Struts and Shocks, Grand AM brake upgrade, steel braided brake lines, 17" Gun Metal Wheels, Khumo Tires
***Racing Seats, SunPro tach w/ shift light, White face guages, carbon fiber Steering wheel, Carbon Fiber dash accents and custom sphere shift knob,

The most popular mid engine and air cooled car in the world. The VW was the largest modded car before the rice bug came alone. The VW has an air cool 4 banger that can be modded to outrun almost anything on the road for pennies compared to other cars. Plus the parts are plentiful and cheap. The cars are VERY easy to work on and the VW has the largest following amongst the age groups. With an 1835 - 1914cc a VW can run in the mid to high 13's.. And lower depending on carbs and tranny.. Plus there is a large aftermarket, clubs, forums and shops for the VW around the world.

http://photos.yahoo.com/the_ikon1911

My favorite sport car of all times.. The Porsche 944 Turbo S 0-60 5.5 sec 1/4 mile 13.5 sec. STOCK!!!! With an air intake system($150), larger muffler($100), Autothority or Dinan chip($450) and boost controller the cars can get 1/4 miles et in 12.8 secs... Get a larger turbo and boost controller and the times drop .3 sec.. Not bad for a 4 banger!

The best sports car I owned 300ZX & 300 ZX twin turbo 90 and 91... Great looking even today, very reliable, fast, handles great, ergonomics great.. Car & Driver All star every year 90-96.. MotorTrend ICOY.. Many many awards... Cheap tp buy now around $4k(non turbo) Everyone knows this car... No comments needed..

Chysler Conquest TSi(we had one 89') and Mitsubishi Starion 87-89. rare turbo cars, sweet looks, handles good and the parts are pretty affordable... For a few $$$ these can be made to be very fast.. With a turbo manual boost controller($50), air intake($100) and larger muffler($100) these cars are @ 14.5 sec
bump up to a larger turbo and intercoolers, they can be high 13s to low 14s..

Isuzu Impulse RS.. 90-91 Rare Turbo charged AWD lil sports coupe.. My best friend has one for a project car and the car has stomped all the rice burners... Same engine as the Lotus Elan. As fast as the Conquest, faster than a GT Fiero, out handles almost ANY car now and then.. A sweet rally car.. The early 90s version of the WRX and EVO... The only mod he has is a dynomax muffler($60), manual boost controller($25 used, set to 14 psi), blow off vavle($40) . Plus a down pipe & short shifter(fabricated both himself) Check out Isuzone.net or Isuzone.com

MAzda Miata, already mentioned is another sweet car..

MR2 Turbo, already mentioned is a beast when modded and a fast car stock...

Lotus Elan... sweet..

MGB , MG Midget, Triumph GT6 and Spitfire, Fiat... All these cars are fun lil cars, but can get very expensive to maintain and repair. plus parts are not as ready as the others...

Kool thread to express other automoblies great qualities..

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85' Fiero 5spd notchback
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bigtime1911/album?.tok=phlWNyABDV9Lapf.&.dir=/2a9c &.src=ph

65' Karmann Ghia
http://photos.yahoo.com/the_ikon1911

Jaguar XJ8 L
Audi A6 Quattro
Jeep CJ7
Lexus SC 400 *Best car ever RIP

[This message has been edited by The_Ikon (edited 04-06-2004).]

The Triumph TR7 with a Ford has upgrade potential like our cars. The Ford Explorer 4.0L powertrain can be installed. There are a lot of other engine types that can be installed including the SBC. Also, it looks very much like an older version of the Fiero.

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87 Fiero SE, Tech IV, Auto.

[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 04-06-2004).]

Chevrolet Corvair?

It may not fit the handeling aspects you are looking for, but it is rear engine. I have seen a couple of Corvair's with v8's in them. One was a 350 and they had removed the back seat and put the eninge more toward the middle of the car. The other one I saw last summer a the Crusin' Downriver event in Michigan. It had a N* in it. The guy had basically taken the engine and trans off an STS and put it in the back of his Corvair.

I Know they are fairly affordable, as they are also a red headed step child of GM. Seems like Fiero people usually like the Corvair.

quote Originally posted by WingNut - MD: Seems like Fiero people usually like the Corvair.

Hopefully.

Anyone want to buy mine?

[This message has been edited by Unsafe At Any Speed (edited 04-06-2004).]

mmm, old Miatas :-D

Janell

AWD DSM's can be made to handle, but they are usually set up for drag racing rather than handling. They can run rediculous numbers on the track, but not many of them can handle with the best of them as well.

From the mid 90's japanese sports cars, I'd say the RX-7 was the handler of the bunch with the Z not far behind. FC and FD rx-7's take well to a SBC while the Z32(300ZX) generally does not have it's engine swapped. Anyone who's looked in the engine bay of a Z32 has seen how cramped it is. An engine swap in a Z32 would cost a lot in fabrication as not much else fits in the bay easily. Some engine swaps I've seen include SBC, 2JZ(supra engine), and RB26DETT(R34 Skyline).
Also, almost all Z's from the 240 to the Z31 take well to the SBC swap.

Another alternative is the 240SX. Only weighs ~2700-2800 lbs. It handles pretty well, though the S13's could use a LSD. There are a multitude of engine swaps with the most popular being the SR20DET. It's a small engine in a big bay that is fairly easy to work on. It's not too hard to get them up near 300 rwhp and beyond w/ basic turbo upgrades. I have a friend with a 240 and it'll kick you in the pants. I guess I;ve rambled enough. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.