How does a beefed up 88 suspension...IE coilovers, poly, koni's, 17 or 18" tires & wheels, compare to that of a modern day Porsche?
I am not looking to start an argument here, actually, I am looking for the comparison from somebody who has driven both. Is it worse than, equal to, or better than , in terms of overall handling.

That probably depends on the Porsche. Boxster? Boxster S? 911? Carrera GT?
A properly setup 88 Fiero can achieve nearly (maybe surpassing) 1g in cornering from what I've read on here.

I dont think there will ever be a Fiero that can achieve the QUALITY of the handling of any current model Porsche.
but, thats going with all thing being equal. didnt a way oversize Escalade win a "supercar" challenge? beating out all kinds of cars in handling.
just about all handling comes down to tires. springs, shocks, sway bars, torsion bars, wings, strut braces etc. dont mean anything with narrow tires. even a 74 Ford LTD can hit 1g with wide enough tires. and next - driver. doesnt matter how good a car handles, a lousy driver will hit the turn to hard, and thats that. and should they make it into the turn, they wont come out of it fast enough, and lose to a slower car down the straight. so, what ya need here a few rules of engagement.

I was thinking of a Porsche with similar dimensions as the Fiero....how about a Boxter. And this was ment to be in stock form......

Sent you a PM.

Here is what I have when I am autocrossing my ‘88GT:
Koni adjustable struts and shocks, 1988 ACE-Eibach 1 ¼” lowering springs, poly control arm / trail arm bushings, Moog outer tie rod ends, Moog inner tie rods, Norris upper / lower ball joints, grease-able poly sway bar bushings and end links w/ ½” grade-8 bolt, and all new parts for the steering rack assembly. Custom strut bar brace – good for autocrossing

KVR Performance Brakes, Six slotted drilled rotors w/carbotech autocross pads, Braided SS brake lines, Motul racing brake fluid 600 – very high boiling temps capability.

Even with all this, those miatas still whip me around the autocross track. There is no way our ‘88’s can and will match the porsche’s or miatas.

Hey, Solo2, just curious, but what are you running for tires?
On an autox the light weight and small size of a Miata really does give it an edge on tight tracks. I wonder how those Miatas would do against your Fiero on a road course, like Sears Point?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That probably depends on the Porsche. Boxster? Boxster S? 911? Carrera GT? A properly setup 88 Fiero can achieve nearly (maybe surpassing) 1g in cornering from what I've read on here.

A memeber of our club can pull near to a G with 2 inch lowering and poly bushings. Not to unacheivable.

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[This message has been edited by Howard_Sacks (edited 03-04-2004).]

If our cars can't out handle a porsche or a miata why not? What is the problem? None of the cars are magic! They are made out if mostly the same materials. They all work under the same principle. The Fiero is relitivly light (the heaviest about 2800lbs or so) mid engined and handle very good. Most all porsches of the same era as the fiero didn't handle as well as people think. The Porsche is a rear engine layout. They were very very prone to tail swing out in hard corners. A bone stock 88GT probably would not out handle a 88 porsche turbo but you did not pay for a Fiero to. I beleave you could easily upgrade a Fiero to handle as good or better than ANY car on the road with the right mods. Suspension for the most part is cheap to up grade ( Poly, lowering springs or coilovers good shocks and stuts, good tires) There are probably very few that think about there tires but in sad reality that is 90% of the handling on these cars. Don't expect to get 1g on regular 80,000 mile tires you have to have sticky tires made for the kind of driving you do or want to do. A ZR rated tire is probably the best on the street but might not be so on the track. You may have to bump up to a autocross tire. A Miata may be better on the track but there has to be a reason and what ever it is the Fiero (or 76 Ford LTD or what ever you drive) can be modified to overcome it.

vinny/Formula88
You are not getting the point. See for yourself and enter an autocross (solo 2) event and see for yourself. I am in the CSP Class, the heavy modified Maitas are running against me the CSP class. Stock classes are in E-Stock. class Lookup www.autocross.com and look for any region and look under the CSP class for yourself.
There are tons and tons of high end suspension pacakages out there for the Maitas, just pick up any issue of "Grassroots Motorsport" magazine and you will see an article of how to hop up the hp and suspension on those tiny cars. Those tiny cars are backed by endless supply of aftermarket sources. The wight to hp is greater than us and the suspension systems out there are designed by companys that have spent in the millions $ to develop the suspensions because of the high demand for them.

Just look up any SCCA solo 2 region and look under the CSP class and see for yourself the top three cars, 9 times out of 10 it will be the Miatas, listed as 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places in the class.

As for tires I have run both racing rubber and the Falkins, it does not matter, their lite weight to horsepower is too great to match them.

It would be interesting to try to run against them in a higher speed event like solo 1 time trials, i.e. Sears Point.

Geez. I just asked what kind of tires you're running.

sorry.

Solo.... I welcome your comments, but , when I started this, I was really looking for stock Porsche specs.

If I go, and lay money down on a Porchse Boxter.. $60K! and then some guy in a 16 year old car comes up to me and has the same performence in the curves as my new Boxter, I would wonder how smart my decision was to by the Porsche.
At the same time, me, I Fiero owner having spent $10k (approx), handling just as well as a Boxter, would drive home with a big grin on my face.

Like I said, my comparison was ment for stock Porches, not for modded autocross Miata's. I do appreciate your comment though... It's good info, and I always wondered about autocrossing, and how a Fiero would do....

So anyone want to race their modded 88 Fiero against an 87 930?(911) Vinny? Anyone else? Put your money where you mouth is....

Solo2, how do you think your Fiero would compete with the Miatas if there were a way to drop about 400lbs or so? (I wish there was) While the Miata is a great handeling car out of the box and there are tons of aftermarket setups, one of the advantages it enjoys is its low weight, which contributes to its "tossability". I know the feeling all too well. I know my Fiero handles well, and can out corner a lot of cars, but even when I drive my dads POS little Plymouth Horizon hatchback, I'm thinking, man this thing is easy to tear around in. Weight is one of the Fieros major drawbacks when it comes to autoX if you ask me.

I am going for a goal of 2650 lbs wet.....

In Ohio alone there are (7) SCCA solo 2 regions. Why don't you go out and try it this year. You will be surprise of how much you will love it and show everybody that the fiero can handle it own:
www.autocross.com
Under Getting Started: Club Listings:
Ohio
Akron Sports Car Club
Cincinnati Region SCCA
NEOhio Region SCCA
Northern Ohio Valley Region SCCA
Northwestern Ohio Region SCCA
Ohio Valley Region SCCA
Western Ohio Region SCCA

BTW, even in stock forum, in E-Stock class, the Miatas will bet the fieros hands down. The only porsche that the fiero runs against in both E-stock and CSP class is the Porsche 914!

The Fiero has a wide wheel base, That is why on the small autoX courses most of the newer cars will out corner it.
As for Porshe's, The only ones I know that cannot out corner a stock Fiero are the stock 924/944 of the 80's. In the 80's the Fiero was one of the best handling cars. Now 15-18 years later, technology now has a 4-door sedans handling as well or better than a Fiero. If you want your Fiero to handle like a Boxster, I'm sure it could be done, But the cost would be very high for some parts you would need custom made.
The Fiero does better on larger road courses than the small ones. The Miata's in stock form handle very well but they lack power. Once they mod the engine for some decent power, The cars are excellent autoX cars. If you had a Fiero and a Miata on a large road course, (given they are equally powered) I would bet it would be a very close race. (based more on driver skill than vehicle) But small courses, the miata would win easily. Small wheel based cars perform very well on small tight courses. When I use to go to the autoX's back in the late 80's early 90's, The CRX's would scream around the small tracks. They would blow away Vettes, Fiero's, F-bodies, Mustangs, etc. But once they were on a larger high speed road course, The CRX's (and most other FWD cars) could not handle the high speeds the Vettes, Fiero's, F-bodies, Mustangs, etc. could in the larger sweeping corners.

Very well stated!

C5 Corvette who posted the below attachment used to race for Porsche, now ya got to ask yourself why he chose the Fiero when he owned a few Porsches???

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0 to 75 Audio http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-04-2004).]

Guys, I stand corrected, there are a few Porsches out thre that the fiero run against in this competition. It is very difficult to show the world that the fiero is a great handling car when these is this much competition. It is sometimes embarrassing when the Honda’s CRX’s whip you. Take a good look on how many cars that the fiero must run against and must take them all on, head on.

C Street Prepared Class – CSP

Acura – Integra Type R
Audui – Quattro
BMW – Z3 (4 cyl), M3 (E30)
Datsun/Nissan – Roadster 1500 & 1600 & 2000
Fiat – Abarth – all, 124 Spyder & 2000 Spyder non-turbo (all), 200 Spyder turbo
Honda – Civic 1500 (’84-’87), Civic (’88-’91), CRX (’88-’91), CRX 1500 (’84-’87)
Lancia – Scorpion
Lotus – Cortina, Elite (1216cc)
Mazda – MX5 Miata, RX-2 & 616, RX-3 & RX-3SP & 808 Mizer, RX-7 non-turbo (’78-’85), RX-7 non-turbo (’86-’92)
Mercedes – 190
Morgan – 4/4
Pininfarina – 2000
Pontiac – Fiero V6 !!!
Porsche – 356 & 1600, 914 1.7L & 1.8L & 2.0L, 924S & 944 (V8), Carrera 4-cyl (all)
Toyota – MR2 non-supercharged (’88-’90), MR2 non-turbo (‘91+), Supra (’79-’81)

E-Stock – ES

Alfa Romeo – 2000 Spider, 2000 GTV
Datsun – 2000, 240Z, 260Z, 280Z, 280ZX non-turbo
Dodge – Charger Turbo, GLH turbo
Fiat/Bartone – X1/9 (all)
Mazda – Miata 1.5, RX-7 non-turbo (all)
Morgan – Plus 4, 4/4
Pontiac – Fiero V6 !!!
Porsche – 924 turbo, audi engine, 924S, 944V8
Shelby – Charger GLH-S (’87)
Sunbeam – Tiger
Toyota – MR2 non-turbo
TVR – 4 cyl and inline 6-cyl

Same class as a Sunbeam Tiger!! Ouch!

quote Originally posted by Solo2: C Street Prepared Class – CSP Porsche – 924S & 944 (V8), E-Stock – ES Porsche – 924 turbo, audi engine, 924S, 944V8

They need to correct their classes. The 924 and 944 only have 4-cylinder engines. The performance versions used a 4-cylinder turbo engine.
The 928 was the V-8 version. There were no V-8 924's or 944's.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Geez. I just asked what kind of tires you're running.

Must be classified.

Careful... If he tells you, he might have to kill you.

I do plan on attending some solo II events this summer. When I got my car not quite a year ago it was in sad shape and to a point it still needs lots of work. I have rebuilt the 2.8 .060 over with a stage 2 cam and a few other things like KYB's and poly bushings but because of money issues (Trying to buy a house) I'm afraid it will not be ready this summer to enter any competitions. We have the MSCCA here that runs on the Airforce base in Columbus about 20 miles away. They also run in Jackson and Grenada. Last night I looked at the results from the last 2-3 years and the Miata scored high in a couple of events, but by far and away not nearly all of them. There was such a large variaty of cars and trucks it was unreal. There were no Fieros. I did'nt mean for anyone to take what I wrote the wrong way but from what I have learned from some (not all) of the post on this forum is that too much faith is layed on a name plate. Just because it reads Porche, Miata, or what ever, it's automaticly faster and better handleling. What I was asking in my reply was WHY is it faster or better handling? Scroll back up to my reply and reread it. There has got to be a real reason. And I know the Miata weighs less.

I too think it is a typo, but I copied it stright out of the rule book.