As promised the t-tops arrived. There was a delay but I requested that the tops be shipped with some other parts I bought from car-michael. The parts where better then discribed. Now I have to get the nerve to take a saws-all to the roof of my formula. It will be a few weeks before I start since I have to pick up an Indy I just bought. I'll post pics , if I can figuire out how to do it. Thank you car-michael for putting up with all my dumb questions and dealing with the shipping problems ( California to Pennslyvania ). Fieromonkey thanks for your part in helping with the shipping . Fieromonkey do you have any spare Indy parts ?

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88 Formula
84 Pace car

Good luck with the install of all the parts you bought, since it looks like you bought more than the t-tops (lol); looks like you have a project ahead of you ...

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 02-28-2004).]

Remember to block, and support your fiero underneath, or it'll pan cake right away with no roof...........

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: Remember to block, and support your fiero underneath, or it'll pan cake right away with no roof...........

You are joking, right?

quote Originally posted by jscott1: You are joking, right?

No, he's not.

WARNING!! You must support the body of the car after cutting the roof off until you get the H-frame for the T-top installed. The roof is a structural member and while the roof is removed the car can buckle in the middle. That's why a convertible has to have bracing welded into the frame to strengthen the car. On the T-top the bracing isn't needed since the H-frame is a structural member, but during the install the car must be supported.

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[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-26-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: No, he's not. You [/b] must[/b] support the body of the car after cutting the roof off until you get the H-frame for the T-top installed.

Have you ever installed a T-top? The car is not going to buckle in the middle immediately without support. It just might sag a little over time if you drove around that way. I don't recommend installing t-tops without supports but the car is not going to buckle in the middle immediately without them.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-26-2004).]

I downloaded the manual. I will support the car with jackstands and use the support bars. I'm taking the doors off since I'mm adding pdl and pw. The job dosen't look that bad to do and I'll have some really good help.

I havnt ever done T Tops but i would leave the Doors IN when your doing the t tops

quote Originally posted by dcaprio: I downloaded the manual. I will support the car with jackstands and use the support bars. I'm taking the doors off since I'mm adding pdl and pw. The job dosen't look that bad to do and I'll have some really good help.

The Fiero Space frame is quite strong. The car will not immediately sag after the first cut. It would be a good idea to support it well just in case. Once you rivet in the "H" frame you want to make sure that the body hasn't flexed too much. Over the span of a day or two there isn't going to be any noticable sag in the frame.

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If you find my advice useful, then please give me a positive rating, thanks...

1988 GT (Firebird Interior),1988 Coupe (Daily Driver), 1985 SE (Project Car), 1985 Coupe (parts car), Firebird Interior Installation Website

jscott1 has done two of the buggers, maybe we can get him up to help do yours Dean. No matter what, once we cut that roof there is no turning back.

[This message has been edited by foxgapfiero (edited 02-27-2004).]

Jscott,

I think you have become known as the t-top man ! lol. Hey this could be your new specialty, like Archie's chop tops !? Hmmmmmmm, what do u think ??

I had my car on jackstands when I cut the roof. The only reason I needed the turnbuckle setup I made is to spread the open roof section enough to get the T-Top H frame in place. The car will not buckle with the roof cut out. Like JScott said it just might sag a little. I know this was a concern for me before I did mine.

Read JScott's thread on Proud1 when he put the T-Tops in. The biggest thing to remember is make sure you've measured the opening right because once you've cut it you can't go back. If anything cut the opening smaller, you can recut or grind it to a larger opening.

Don't be afraid to ask a question if your not sure about it.

Good Luck,

Earl

Hey Dean!
I am so glad you like the T-Top set. Thanks so much for your patience!

As far as the car "folding in half" when you cut the roof off. that is simply not ture. Although i have never cut off a roof myself, i have seen FieroMonkey do it 3 times on fieros in the junk yards and they did nothing more and make the gap where the doors open/close between the rear of the door and the 1/4 panel, increase by about 1/8 - 1/5 of an inch. the cars were not supported at all. two of them were lifted off the ground and on stands, and the third was on its wheels.

Although it did not move much, as stated here by others, it would be wise to support the car, but it sounds like you and your help have things well in hand as for removing the doors, i dont see why you cant/shouldn't. i would not rely on them to support the car durring the process at all, they are just extra weight. on the cars i saw Fieromoney do, opening and closing the doors did not effect the car at all once the roof was gone.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Have you ever installed a T-top? The car is not going to buckle in the middle immediately without support. It just might sag a little over time if you drove around that way. I don't recommend installing t-tops without supports but the car is not going to buckle in the middle immediately without them.

You know, I sure haven't. You know what else? The car may not collapse to the ground immediately, but it's a BAD idea not to brace the car while doing the swap. If it sags just a little bit, the doors won't align properly and do you really want to have to have a tweaked frame straightened just because you didn't put a brace under the car?

Maybe you'd be comfortable doing it w/o a brace. I certainly would not. Just like some people say you can change springs without a compressor. Sure, we've heard stories about people being killed or injured by unrestrained springs coming loose, but since they haven't been killed yet, it must be ok, right? You can use that logic if you like. I prefer to play it safe.

Not to mention, when offering advice to someone who isn't already an expert on the subject, isn't it best to be conservative and err on the side of safety?

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No flame intended but from what i understand it is vital to brace the car when doing this.
I believe there was even some kind of bracing kit that was used when putting these in originally. I have talked this over a bit because i am interested in having t-tops and i hear Bob at Twin Lakes Fiero has a brace he always uses when doing this.
I am by no means an expert in any way on this and i've only discussed it a couple times but i think that last paragraph of formulas post above is very well written. Better to be safe then sorry. Any flex in a body struture is not a good thing.
Just the .02 of a guy who's by no means a t-top expert but would sure love to have them.

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Activities Director N.I.F.E.

[This message has been edited by Dave Gunsul (edited 02-27-2004).]

I am in no way an expert on T-top installation, but I have taken Sawzall to my car and I can relate first hand my experience installing T-tops.

I created braces for my car to provide additional support. I do not advocate cutting the roof without supports, I mearly stated that, in my experience, the car will not buckle immediately like a potato chip without bracing. Before I installed my t-tops I spoke to several people that installed t-tops without bracing and said it was not a big deal. Just to be safe I used braces.

So in summary I agree it's a good idea to brace the car, but it won't buckle like a potato chip if you don't. That's all I'm saying.

ok, here is my two cents from owning a convertible, t-top and removing a t-top from a fiero.

Yes, the car will sag, over time, without braces.

For the t-top, you must spread the two halves apart to get the frame in place. This is why the "braces" are used. On the car I removed the frame from, I used a block of wood and wedged the windshield away from the B-pilar to get the frame to drop down. When I go to install the frame, I will make threaded braces, so I can gently install the frames.

What many people are forgetting this that the center of the car is a HUGE support area for the fiero. So cutting the top off the car is not going to change the car when it is sitting in the garage... but take it for a ride and it will rattle and shake! The t-top framing must be wedged in place basicallly.
J.

I stated that I plan to support the car and add the braces like jscott did. Maybe I wasen't clear. I really have this planed out well. I have at least 3 guys helping me. The plan is to do it over 1 weekend. I'm 100% sure that foxgap and I can do the job ourselves with no help. My buddy snafus will do the measuring since he has a degree in mathmatics from Penn State. With all the help I have I still have to take the saw to my roof.

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88 Formula
84 Pace car

quote Originally posted by dcaprio: I stated that I plan to support the car and add the braces like jscott did. Maybe I wasen't clear. I really have this planed out well. I have at least 3 guys helping me. The plan is to do it over 1 weekend. I'm 100% sure that foxgap and I can do the job ourselves with no help.... My buddy snafus will do the measuring since he has a degree in mathmatics from Penn State. With all the help I have I still have to take the saw to my roof.

That's a good plan. I had my brother do the measuring and I did the cutting.

The one clarification is that the Fiero does not have to actually be "spread" to get the frame in. At least not in my case. The back goes in first and then the front pops in and the whole frame slides forward. I was almost surprised how easy it when in. Even though I had the threaded support rods I didn't have to actually increase the length of the rods to get the frame installed.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-27-2004).]

And the count down to Cutting Day begins. That is another thread though....

I'm going to post a date for the roof cutting party. Anyone who would like to come is welcome. It will be a fun day. If you need any parts contact foxgap and he can bring them along. He has a huge supply of parts.

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88 Formula
84 Pace car

quote Originally posted by jscott1: [QUOTE]Originally posted by dcaprio: I stated that I plan to support the car and add the braces like jscott did. Maybe I wasen't clear. I really have this planed out well. I have at least 3 guys helping me. The plan is to do it over 1 weekend. I'm 100% sure that foxgap and I can do the job ourselves with no help.... My buddy snafus will do the measuring since he has a degree in mathmatics from Penn State. With all the help I have I still have to take the saw to my roof.

That's a good plan. I had my brother do the measuring and I did the cutting.

The one clarification is that the Fiero does not have to actually be "spread" to get the frame in. At least not in my case. The back goes in first and then the front pops in and the whole frame slides forward. I was almost surprised how easy it when in. Even though I had the threaded support rods I didn't have to actually increase the length of the rods to get the frame installed.

[/QUOTE]

JScott, I had to spread mine about 3/16 of a inch. I was doing it myself so that was the easiest way for me. When I measured I made sure I had a tight fit and didn't have to grind the frame at all. Don't forget to use a liberal amount of urethane windshield sealant along the seams before you put the frame in place, and yes it was messy for me doing it myself, but not to bad. One thing I did after putting all the rivets in is a I got my MIG welder out and welded along the seam in a few places, not all the way across to give it a little extra shear strenght. I didn't weld all the way across, mainly because it put off to many hot sparks and I was afraid of putting burn holes in the interior somewhere, even with it covered. After all that I sprayed in some sxpanding foam from the Home Depot to try and eliminate any possible leak spots. Make sure the interior is cover because that stuff will come out any holes in the frame.

Earl

FieroGT87
Thanks for the advise. Most of the interior will be out. I added mr mikes last year and the dash will be out so I can run the wire harness for the power doors.

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88 Formula
84 Pace car