"By the time Pontiac killed its unprofitable Fiero after a four-year run, the vehicle was quite good. But GM spent a lot of money fixing a car that was billed originally as a fuel-efficient commuter car, when buyers expected it to be a high-end sports car. Whatever they may have been expecting, Fiero customers got a car that was initially unreliable. Pontiac issued 403 service bulletins on the '84 Fiero, plus a recall for engine fires. The vehicle had particular problems with driving in reverse--the gear would engage suddenly, or it wouldn't engage at all, or it would just do it very, very slowly."

Heres the link to the article....make sure to vote for NOT the Fiero in the voting thing.
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2004/01/26/cx_dl_0126feat.html

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FURIOUS FIERO
See My New Website at www.furiousfiero.owns.it

I also looked at the vote results so far. I expect a good portion of Fiero votes were by people who have NEVER owned a Fiero.

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3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

Its nice that he said 4 year production run, I seem to remember there being 5 years.

Problem with driving in reverse?

I agree with the above, the votes are from people that have no clue.

On another note, I believe Forbes had another article touting the Fiero as the number one selling sports car and it has yet to be surpassed in sales.

If you notice, it only lists the year 1984 as the worst, whereas other cars listed have multiple years example: 1971-1980 Ford Pinto
Now I'm not downplaying the 84's out there, but it was only the first year of production that Forbes is saying is awful, while the rest of the production years for the fiero are ok.

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1986 Fiero SE

quote Originally posted by doublec4: If you notice, it only lists the year 1984 as the worst, whereas other cars listed have multiple years example: 1971-1980 Ford Pinto Now I'm not downplaying the 84's out there, but it was only the first year of production that Forbes is saying is awful, while the rest of the production years for the fiero are ok.

tell other people that.. they seem to think all fieros look like 84's.. I mean technically they do (notches) just changed bumper covers and what not. To no observant people they'd never notice the difference. I've had people say they saw me driving mine in winter, I was like umm was it red, they were like yup, I then said sorry I don't drive mine in the winter

[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 01-26-2004).]

Just keep logging in and voting for the Dauphine.

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Notchbacks RULE

"It's cool to have a car you just have to look back at."

quote Originally posted by Street&Strip Performance: Problem with driving in reverse?

Yeah, I've had this problem.. when I shift into R, it suddenly engages and starts to move. I mean, damn, WheN I stick my car in R, I mean for it to sit there for a while before engaging. Then one time it didn't engage at all, it was dark and when I realized what was wrong, it was fixed right away.. All I had to do was shift it into R from N

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"As we live on, we lose a little bit more. Shrouded in falsehoods and lies, we stand frozen to the spot, unable to cry out" - Deep Forest

I made a comment to them to get there facts corrected. And why do they list the TSB's?? TSB's are not a "BAD" thing. Many of them are procedures for the service folks like burping the coolant system. There was even a TSB on the availability of SD4 parts!! If you go to www.alldata.com select TSB/Recalls and then select 1984 under the individual record and then pontiac then Fiero, You will see the titles of all TSB's. The Ford Focus has 6 Safety recalls where the 84 only has 2 (and they are for the fires)
Here are some of the TSB's:
84010A AUG 84 `Super Duty' 2.5L Engine - Parts Availability
841020 JUN 84 Indy Fiero - Components Identification
8468 NOV 83 A.I.R. Pump Pulley - Rattling Noise (Funny thing to be listed since no Fiero's had one!!!)
84SM9 APR 84 Port Injection Diagnostic Kit - Instruction Change (Which 1984 Fiero's had "port" injection????)
9294 AUG 91 Cellular - Telephone Service Program (I guess it says, Don't talk on the d@m phone while driving)
331226 JAN 94 A/C - Retrofitting R-12 Vehicles to R-134A (HMMM...GM has a TSB on how to convert to R-134A)
83-81-34 MAR 99 SIR - Operating Vehicle with Warning Light On (Isn't SIR airbags???)
99-03-10-102 JUN 99 Warranty - OE Chrome Plated Aluminum Wheel ID (which wheels were chrome plated???)
99-00-89-022 DEC 99 Vehicle - The Year 2000 & Electronic Modules (Could this one be for the 2000 Fiero? Or for the newer engine swaps?)
99-09-40-008 JAN 00 Child Restraint - Auxiliary Seat Belt (They have one in the car?)
00-03-10-002 MAR 00 Chrome Wheels - Chemical Staining (Another Chrome wheel TSB?)

Look at the dates of these TSB's:
81I37 FEB 81 Oxygen Sensors - Silica Contamination
T36 FEB 78 HEI System - Description and Diagnosis Chart (I think the 1978 Fiero was nothing but a clay model.)
01-07-30-029 OCT 01 A/T - Core Return Product Feedback Form (Still issuing TSB's in 2001 for Fiero's?????)

Many of the TSB's are general, Especially the transmission ones. They list the 125/125C/440 alot.

Here is the actual link to the 1984 Fiero page:
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/48/84481210.html

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-26-2004).]

This is something we have to all accept as Fiero owners.
People out there are prejudiced against all Fieros, thinking
of an 84 base coupe with a cracked windshield and smoke
coming out from the decklid. (no offense to any owners of
the above).
The thing I know is that anybody who sees my car and thought
that way gets their mind changed in a hurry.

Oh well....see my sig...
Edit: at least the Yugo is ahead of us in the voting!
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May those that love us love us. For those who don't love us, may God turn their hearts. But if he can't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles, so that we may know them by their limping.

[This message has been edited by DustoneGT (edited 01-27-2004).]

Oh well, even if this is bad publicity for our cars, it just filters out the dumb people from the fiero community that buy cars based on popularity *cough* civics *cough* . Not too much of a loss for us

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1986 Fiero SE

I also sent Forbes a nice e-mail. I mentioned the 5 year run, that the car was profitable every year. The fact that fiero was first production space frame car and that GM's flagship Corvette wasnt built on a space frame until 1997. I did agree early fiero's had problems but pointed out that the later models handled as well as new vettes. Lastly I asked why Aztek wasnt on this list.

The editors of Forbes will find this in their mailbox:
----------------------------------------------start of letter----------------------------------
I would like to congratulate the staff at Forbes for producing what I see as one of the most biased and short-sighted articles of all time. What started out as an article on poor business practices deteriorated into name-calling and prejudicial comments about something the writer of the article obviously knows little about.

I find it particularly interesting when the author proceeds to make statements like " Between that time and today, the Japanese proved to the world that just because a car was cheap, it didn't mean it also couldn't be a well-built, value-laden automobile that looked and drove well. " while later in the article they mention a Japanese automobile -- The Honda Accord as one of the worst cars ever.

"The result of our inquiry, you will find, is a tour de force of how cars can go wrong. The best we can say is that the days when these 14 vehicles you are about to see were made are, we hope, behind us. " This quote pretty much sums it up. Many of these cars had revolutionary ideas that were executed very well and were profitable for all years of production for the companies that made them.
I could get into specifics on each and every car that doesn't belong on the list, but I will leave that up to the intelligent reader.
-----------------------------------------------end of letter-----------------------------------------------
Nuf said. I am pretty sure they will not publish this in their magazine so I will publish it here.
That is the power of the internet. No longer can the rich and influential tell us what we should
be thinking.

quote Originally posted by DustoneGT: The editors of Forbes will find this in their mailbox:

they are just not well build cars man.. I've said it time and time again.. We love em, but they AREN'T good quality.. I love Mustangs too, but they are cheap,
mass produced cars!

Eh, just feeds fuel to my fire......"I cant believe I got my ass whooped by a POS Fiero"........he he he!

Forbes = business magazine

They are not a car magazine, an engineering magazine, or a style magazine.
They dont mention even once how profitable any of the cars were or in exactly
which ways the companies mismanaged their programs.

That is the I am calling them on.

Point taken, by that standard any mass produced car is crappy...up to and
including Corvette.

Thank goodness they put the Bronco II on there, looking at the choices I thought I might have to vote for something that does deserve SOME credit. The Bronco II was just a pure pile of crap, in my opinion.

Some of those cars aren't bad cars, and perhaps their worst offense is their looks alone. For example, a '78 Accord Hatchback is a *really* good car. They're kind of weird, but the quality was fantastic! Out west you still see them on the road with a couple hundred thousand miles and more with interiors in decent shape. The suspensions don't seem to ever wear out with exception to the struts themselves. Their transmissions and engines were very durable and long living. What was supposed to be the horrible failure of the first gen accord?

Forbes is such a BS magazine anyway...when you sell a business magazine, you pretty much have to say what the "popular" thing to say is rather than the right thing. The Mustang II should have been in there too.

Bryce
88 GT

I have an 84. Daily driver in the Florida heat. 20 years old original engine and tranny and it still hasn't caught fire.

Bonzo

quote Originally posted by doublec4: If you notice, it only lists the year 1984 as the worst, whereas other cars listed have multiple years example: 1971-1980 Ford Pinto Now I'm not downplaying the 84's out there, but it was only the first year of production that Forbes is saying is awful, while the rest of the production years for the fiero are ok.

In fact, here's another quote from the article...

"Knowing in advance that we would consider at least some of our finds to be, actually, somewhat lovable vehicles, we gave special consideration to cars that were potentially noble ideas, but mismanaged. Pontiac's Fiero and Honda's Accord, both of which are on the list, started badly but got much better over time."

That voting article stinks there are many other cars that deserves the worst car title, I do not see the gremlin in there but they list the pacer ? They also failed to list the nissan pulsar and the 85 hyundia pony(think it was the pony it was a 85model, But one of them had a air cooled tranny and was always fooking breaking leaving me and my friends stranded I mean everytime I had extra money that damn car knew it and loved to break down and it would always happen when im miles away from home.... God im glad that thing was put to rest.

Anyway the article stinks and them listing the fiero only drives the price down so I can by more fieros

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 01-27-2004).]

quote The model years listed hereafter do not always represent the full manufacturing run of the vehicle. For example, the Fiat Strada's model years are listed as 1978-88; this encompasses its entire production history, which is fair to assess as "bad" because the vehicle was never any good. The Honda Accord, on the other hand, is listed as a 1978 model; this is because we take issue with the earliest Accord, but not with the rest of its history. All dates are for model years, not calendar years.

So they are saying that the 1984 Fiero was bad, but the 85-88 Fieros were good (or not bad enough for the list).

I think it is funny that they had to use a picture of a big Bronco because Ford would not approve a picture of a Bronco II to be used. If I were a car manufacturer I don't think I would approve a picture of any of my cars to be used on a 'Worst Cars' list. That's like being all happy when your girlfriend tells you that ya'll are gonna be on Springer!

And I disagree with anyone who says that Fieros are just not well built cars. I've driven Fieros all over this country with very little problems. True, the early ones had problems that were addressed and fixed. Pontiac rushed releasing them to be able to have the Indy Pace Car in 84. Besides that, almost all of us have said that you shouldn't buy a first year car of anything. Give them time to work the bugs out. I feel like they did that in the Fiero.

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Fiero-Performance.com - New mods for your Fiero from Fiero Performance Bayern in Germany

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 01-27-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: So they are saying that the 1984 Fiero was bad, but the 85-88 Fieros were good (or not bad enough for the list).

Actually, they do say that the Fiero got better with time:

"Knowing in advance that we would consider at least some of our finds to be, actually, somewhat lovable vehicles, we gave special consideration to cars that were potentially noble ideas, but mismanaged. Pontiac's Fiero and Honda's Accord, both of which are on the list, started badly but got much better over time."

I'm afraid I must disagree with you on this one.

Forbes probably has it fairly correct. The very earliest of the 1984 Fieros introduced into the market were rather pathetic examples as compared to what was in store for the run in later times (as eveidenced by the article).

Yes, I believe the car was introduced to the public before it was ready! I also believe that the far-too-early introduction to the public and the resultant bad press is what got the project cancelled in the end.

Car and Driver magazine (I believe it was) in Aug or so of 1987 put out an issue with the 1988 Fiero GT on the cover with the announcement "They Finally Got It Right".

Unfortunately, it was 4 years too late to save the car.

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heres the problem though:

The average joe consumer who doesn't know jack about cars is going
to pick up this article and wont know as much as we do about them.
This reflects badly on our car as well as the accord and all the others.

I think this was irresponsible and stupid for them to print.

Take heart. At day's end the Fiero, with all it foibles, has been the only mid-engine, 2-seater mass-produced American sports car. If memory serves me correctly, the only other contenders are the Chevy Corvair (rear-engine), Pantera (small qty. imported by Ford from Italy in early 70s) and the Ford GT (avail this year, limited production).

FWIW, other fun-to-drive cars had quirky "personalities". British MGs and Triumphs, front-engine sports cars, were notoriously squeaky, leaky and hard to keep in tune. Ralph Nader lampooned the Corvair for its steering. Used to have an Opel GT (poor man's Vette) that wouldn't start when it was snowing.

Bottom line, vote for the Yugo -- it's in a class of it's own!

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Steve, 87 Fiero GT, Getrag w/Ultimate Shift Kit, Street Dreams drop spindles, Poly mounts, KYBs, Ocelot, DashScan

quote Originally posted by DustoneGT: heres the problem though: The average joe consumer who doesn't know jack about cars is going to pick up this article and wont know as much as we do about them. This reflects badly on our car as well as the accord and all the others. I think this was irresponsible and stupid for them to print.

Yeah, but it'll help keep prices down for those of us that know better