What is wrong with the California Clubs this time???

It must be performance anxiety due to trying to keep up with the highly active and successful Oregon clubs.

Sorry, I don't even know that an event was ever actually scheduled for the great northern outback of California. If you are interested in coming to an event in a populated area, I'm working up something for April. Let me know if you want to be on the list.

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quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: What is wrong with the California Clubs this time???

Nothing at all. Here's the background info...

I knew that there would be a 20th anniversary celebration in Michigan in '03, so when I went up to the '02 Northwest show, I proposed the idea that they take one year off, and we'd combine the Northwest and WestFest into one show. Mt. Shasta was proposed because it is a reasonable halfway point between all of our clubs. The Northwest folks said they like the idea, so I went about planning for the show.

After your Northwest show, I found out that they don't want to cancel their show because they thought the lost momentum would cause the Northwest show to die (in the future). Fair enough, but I'd said all along that if either of us did another show that year, that the attendance would be divided and the combined show wouldn't work. So, we (the WestFest organizers} discussed it, and agreed that the combined show wouldn't work, and turned our sights on a place more suited to better attendance by our California/Nevada/Arizona clubs.

I would love to have done the combined show. We probably would have gotten 50-70 cars, for a west coast 20th anniversary (in '04), and it would likely have been the largest, and last show of it's size here in the west. It didn't work out.

^

?

DRLGTP - was there something else you needed to know?

This is the Northwest's perspective:

Don, I believe the reply you received was correct. I guess the polls
each club conducted to see what participation numbers would be were
not acceptable. I bleieve those numbers would not have increased had
we decided to cancel the 2004 NWFF. I am convinced the ones who would
go to Mt Shasta would do so regardless of Richland. Apparently the
So. Cal. folks don't agree. We may be getting the blame for it but I
would be interested in knowing what participation was expected from
NV/CA/AZ for Mt Shasta. He estimated 50-70 cars and I suspect the NW
clubs numbered aroundhalf of that. Therefore what is the reason for
their poor showing???

What I was looking for was the complete picture.

Why not Mt Shasta???

I'm totally not involved in any of this Mt Shasta stuff but I know that we have been getting great participation in CA at all events for the past 6 months or so... And everyone is always asking for more! Getting Southern people to Shasta would not have been a problem. I have friends there I need to visit soon anyway.

It is my understanding that the Fiero owners from the Southern states were interested in Shasta but the Northern states didn't want to combine their show into that one so that we could have a really big show. If the Northern states didn't want to, there was no reason for the Southern states to do it. Therefore there will, as always, be a Northern show and a Southern show instead of one big show.

I don't guess there is any blame for it. That's just how it turned out. I think the only thing bear said is that there was an offer put out for a combined show and the powers-that-be in the North chose not to accept it. That is their right...

My goodness! This post reads like another Civil War! haha

btw - I think the title and first thread of this post shows incredibly poor taste and is only intended to bring on hostilities... Must be all of those 19 posts that taught so much forum etiquette.

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Fiero-Performance.com - New mods for your Fiero from Fiero Performance Bayern in Germany

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 12-15-2003).]

I was looking forward to the Mt. Shasta show as well as the NWFF. I was planning on attending both and I don't think anyone else would choose to attend the Fiero Fest instead of Mt Shasta. They're two different things, one's a 4 hour drive max and the other is two days. I agree with the decision to keep the Fiero Fest going and don't see any reason to hinge Mt. Shasta on another show.

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Alan Frazier
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC
'84 2m4 daily driver
'88 Silver coupe, auto For Sale

The reason I felt it was a sensitive situation is that Mt. Shasta city does not have many facilities for the Saturday night banquet/awards. The only decent possibility I saw was a country club banquet room. Now, you are talking big money. I've looked into banquets in the past, and you suddenly make a jump to having to put up anywhere from $1500-3000 *up front*. If attendance is lower than expected, who is gonna write checks for the loss? See the problem?

I was able to solve that financial liability in Tahoe by taking advantage of an ideal situation, and have a pizza party. We did so well financially, that we couldn't spend all the money and everyone ate and drank to their heart's content. The leftover money is in the bank, paying the upfront costs of the next show.

In Vegas, we just skipped the banquet, suggested that folks could choose from any of the 100s of restaurants in Vegas, and we paid for the conference room outright using money from the show registration. The only money we lost was on trophies, and Chris West absorbed it into his business, as sponsorship/advertizing.

There are other towns in the area, but who wants to drive 8 hours to stay in Weed, or Yreka? I also figured that we might draw larger numbers of people from greater distance by dangling the carrot of a big show, just like they did for the Michigan 20th. Without the promise of a big (singular) show, it's a tougher sell.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 12-15-2003).]

Why did it have to be Mt Shasta city? Redding has all of the different facilities you could ask for and is still close enough to Shasta for scenic drives and activities.

There was a large group from the northwest that would attend a show in that area.

It sounds like you are concerned that you would not get a large enough turnout from California.

There were not that many cars from California at the 20th, so why the problem with attendence in Las Vegas?

Hense my original question.

What is wrong with the California clubs this time??

[This message has been edited by DRLGTP (edited 12-15-2003).]

Hey, if you want something done, do it yourself! It gets old when people complain about how a club does on putting together any kind of show. All a club is is a group of hobbyist like yourself, and the burden of work generally winds up falling on one person, along with any fallout if there isn't enough peel and eat shrimp at the buffet. If you are entirely convinced that an event hosted in the far north would be a huge draw, get busy and build it, see if they will come. Personally, I would not want to get involved in putting together something that was that remote from where I live. However, if you think it's worth doing, I encourage you to go for it.

Just quit trying to lay blame, that's quite tacky.

Stimpy, or is that stumpy?

Your attitude is the one that sucks.

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: Why did it have to be Mt Shasta city? Redding has all of the different facilities you could ask for and is still close enough to Shasta for scenic drives and activities.

Ever been to Redding in the summer? Almost as hot as Vegas. In Vegas, we got lucky with the weather. I would *never* have picked Las Vegas in August, same for Redding.

quote There was a large group from the northwest that would attend a show in that area. It sounds like you are concerned that you would not get a large enough turnout from California.

I am always concerned that we won't get enough cars to pay for the show. There was some resistance from the San Diego and L.A. club folks about the distance. Since I cannot *make* them come, I have to take their wishes into account.

It may not be widely known, but there are 2 or 3 of us who put some of our own money into these shows. When you are one of the people writing checks, it makes you cautious. How much of your money would you be willing to lose? If you lost money on one show, how willing would you and your friends be to do it again the next year? I'm thinking not only of the current show, but long term.

quote There were not that many cars from California at the 20th, so why the problem with attendence in Las Vegas?

Because we took over the show from FOCOA with only 2 months to get the word out. Realistically, you need to let folks know at least 6 months in advance so they can plan vacation time.

quote Hense my original question. What is wrong with the California clubs this time??

Aside from the fact that we don't have as high a percentage of people who want to take their cars to shows as they have in the east, I don't know what else I can tell you.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 12-15-2003).]

How so? I've been involved in organizing events, and I know exactly how hard it is to please everyone. So, what did I say that wasn't true? Is it just a matter that you don't like having the focus turned back on you?

Trust me, you haven't seen a bad attitude from me (yet).

So why didn't you just say that you could not get enough cars from California to attend?

Instead you tried to use the fact that the Nortwest clubs did not want to cancell their successful show on the chance that you might be able to put together a show for the West coast.

And STUMPY you started it with your first stupid comment about Oregon clubs, when you didn't even know what this was about.

Well, I tell ya what, cheif, if this was a private conversation for certain people "in the know" you might want to take advantage of the Private Message feature. I actually think I have been positive and helpful in tone, and my comment about Oregon clubs only served to reflect the holier then thou tone of your comments about "California clubs". However, if you really want to start a little flame off with me, I'm more then happy to oblige.

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: So why didn't you just say that you could not get enough cars from California to attend?

That's not what I said. Let's try this again...without the draw of a big, singular west coast show, I couldn't be sure we'd draw enough cars from *anywhere* to justify the cost of getting a banquet facility large enough to handle all the people that *might* show. With shaky numbers, it was looking like too much of a liability, financially.

quote Instead you tried to use the fact that the Nortwest clubs did not want to cancell their successful show on the chance that you might be able to put together a show for the West coast.

Granted, although I'm trying to be diplomatic about it, I was rather disappointed when they decided not to do the singular show. I thought we had an agreement on this, but it didn't work out. If I sound a bit bitter, that's why. I'll just leave it at that.

Here's an idea... Instead of ragging on the 'California Clubs' which you are trying so hard to put dowm, why don't you put together you own Mt Shasta show if you want to. The California Clubs that you are so vocally putting down seem to be doing a lot more than any Oregon clubs I have heard about... I just don't get you whole attitude.

I for one would like to see some of the posts and websites highlighting your recent gatherings. Us poor pitiful folks in California have many sites with many pictures of our very successful events...

My suggestion is to stop bagging on us until you can show some of your own results. Personally, I was just as offended as stimpy was by your tone in this message. If this is the attitude of your clubs, I totally agree with bear not to have a joint event with ya'll. Makes me glad that Chris West and I decided to go East instead of North on the next event that we are planning too!

^

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: ^

WHAT?! What do you want? You making me crazy, man!

Yeah, what do you want?

John, what do you say we just get this guy a trophy so he'll quit whining?

At this point it doesn't matter what he wants. He has already done the damage to his brand new Pennock's account... The success of our California events stands for themselves. I'm still waiting to see all the Oregon event pages. Lord knows I never hear about them here on the forum...

Anyway... we have plenty in the works planning our own future events without worrying about this guy trying to talk us down. Let's just get on with our stuff and ignore this crap.

Werd to tha mutha.

I was hoping for some input from the Northwest or others from California

You might have considered trying another tact other than being so abrasive and accusatory. Where I come from we've always been told you can draw more flies with honey than with vinegar.

After your first post why would anyone from California want to talk to you and hear how awful our clubs are?

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 12-16-2003).]

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: I was hoping for some input from the Northwest or others from California

I can't speak for everyone from Pennock's, but here is the feedback I had before:

Ben Didlot - wanted to do the show, said the Northwest folks wanted to go, but they didn't want to cancel their regular show

L.A. - some expressed concern about the distance. I figured the only way to get them to go is to make it a big show, which would no longer be assured

San Diego - they don't really want to go further than the Bay Area (about 470 miles)

fierobear,

Given what happened with 2002 Reno show and the resitance from the Southern California Clubs I understand "your" reason for canceling.

With Songman and Chris not supporting you and planning another show you just did not have the support from the California clubs that you needed.

I know of at least 4 cars from the Oregon club that were planning on attending both shows. We will miss not having a combined west coast show to attend. Most of us from the Northwest that would have attended the show would have to drive a lot more than 470 miles. There were more cars from Oregon at the 20th this year than from sothern california.

We have two major shows planned for the Northwest and many smaller ones so we did not need it to enjoy our cars and clubs. There is more to a club and members than a fancy web page.

If no one else from the northwest wants to comment I am done here.

Whoa there, hoss.. Where did anyone say that we were not supporting fierobear? As a matter of fact, I am part of the team helping fierobear plan the show that we are going to have INSTEAD of Mt Shasta.... You just gotta learn to get your info right before you start typing...

The point that you seem to be missing is that the 'California Clubs' are constantly having events. We have that much interest in getting together down here. Between Chris West in the South, me in the Central Valley, and fierobear in the Bay area, we have pretty regular gatherings down here and draw anywhere from 13-17 cars at a time. We try to do this every month!

As far as big shows go, the idea that Chris and I are putting together is not instead of bear's show. It will be after that. As was mentioned in earlier threads and in this one, big shows take time and planning. No need to wait until the next show is over to start brainstorming about the one that will follow it.

Don't try to turn this so it looks likes us California folks are working against each other because that is just not the case.

BTW - Good dig about the webpage! Unfounded by still a good attempt. I guess you just can't help trying to make us look like bad guys down here. Exactly what fancy web page are you speaking of? If you mean mine, I'm not even in a club down here. I participate with several clubs helping put events together and just enjoying my car. Also, who cares if there were more Oregon cars at the 20th? How many did you have in Vegas? Stop with all the baby competition crap... As for me personally, I go to events on both ends of this country every year. I support anyone who wants to put on an event. Why don't you stop spewing and trying to place blame and just let this die.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 12-16-2003).]

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: If no one else from the northwest wants to comment I am done here.

Thank God! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

Guess we better not do that informational webpage for your Rally In The Valley, stimpy. Apparently that is looked down on in some parts of the world. I guess we'll just let everyone guess when and where they are supposed to show up! haha

Songman,

So that I have the facts straight:

Were you and/or Chris interested in or supportive of the Mt Shasta show?

Stimpy didn't know anything about it.

Either way, will it make you sleep easier at night? How can you sit there and complain that no one threw you a party?! Roll your own, bee-yatch!

Now Stumpy is that the best you can do?

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: With Songman and Chris not supporting you and planning another show you just did not have the support from the California clubs that you needed.

I'm not sure which show you are referring to. As for their not supporting my efforts, I'm not sure where that comes from. It was Chris' idea to take over the Vegas show, and he paid for the trophies ($500). Songman wasn't even in California and actively doing events until this year. Both are on our WestFest organizing committee.

quote I know of at least 4 cars from the Oregon club that were planning on attending both shows. We will miss not having a combined west coast show to attend. Most of us from the Northwest that would have attended the show would have to drive a lot more than 470 miles. There were more cars from Oregon at the 20th this year than from sothern california.

No doubt you have some folks willing to travel. I met the I-80 group in Salt Lake City for the drive to Michigan.

quote If no one else from the northwest wants to comment I am done here.

I don't see many posts on the forum from the folks in the Northwest. Maybe you could encourage more of them to sign up here?

I would have been totally in favor of a Shasta show. As mentioned above, I have friends in Shasta. As a matter of fact, I used to live just East of Redding... OF course, I can't speak for Chris but Chris tells me that he loved the Truckee Run before so I know the distance would not have been a problem for him... As a matter of fact, the Colorado/Arizona/New Mexico idea was his...

On the matter of deciding if there would be a show at Shasta or not, I was not involved in that process. But when John gave me the details I agreed that given that set of circumstances that maybe something more southerly would be the way to go.

I hope you see the pattern here.. I love driving my car. I still go to Ed Parks' swap meets every year back in Alabama. I still try to go on the Run For The Hills in North Georgia. I like to think that I am at least partly responsible for the success we are having here in Central CA. I know it is not all my doing, but there was nothing going on around here that I know of when I got here a year and a half ago. Of course, I didn't know John then. So, my answer is yes. Had the show been up there I would have been supportive. If another show gets planned up there in the future, I will be supportive.

I'm not a bad guy. I just think we've got too much finger pointing and harmful talk going on in this thread. Had there been more working together and less of exactly what is happening in this thread, there might have actually been a show in Shasta.

quote Originally posted by Songman: I'm not a bad guy. I just think we've got too much finger pointing and harmful talk going on in this thread. Had there been more working together and less of exactly what is happening in this thread, there might have actually been a show in Shasta.

Along those lines and for the record, I had every intention of going to the Northwest show last summer, but the combination of going to the 20th (which I could not miss) and being one of the organizers of the Vegas show meant that I couldn't make it. I sent apologies along to the Northwest folks via Kym Robinson of Reno. Maybe if I had gone, things would have turned out differently. But then I wouldn't have been able to do Vegas.

quote Originally posted by DRLGTP: Now Stumpy is that the best you can do?

Oh wait, I get it! Stumpy! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Stop, I can't catch my breath! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!! You're killing me. Oh my... Oh, no one's ever thought of that one before. Oh GFDSGHGDABKH, you are an original. Please come down to California, so we may bask in more of your wit and charm!